decided to go to manual brakes for several reasons,10" of vacuum for one,borderline enough for power brakes.so i got a new modern master 15/16 from eberg. and a manual push rod.well let me say this,i dont care what anyone says.power brakes are the way to go.i hate manual brakes,and in a 475 hp duster you need all the assist you can get.so im going to be looking for a vacuum pump and canister.my 2 cents
my manual brake experience
- Thread starter jdsduster
- Start date
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abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I don't know. Our dart Has manual brakes (disc in front and 11" drum rear) and that thing stops awesome.
Maybe you have something mismatched.
With lower vacuum maybe you should go hydro boost.
Maybe you have something mismatched.
With lower vacuum maybe you should go hydro boost.
Manual disc on my car. Master is aluminum from a 86 truck manual brake with an E-body rod due to the adapter. proportioning valve for 71 4 piston disc car. Brakes from a 73 Duster mounted behind the spindle. NAPA pads nothing special. I put people up against Dash at over 100 mph.
I am now going to manual on both new builds . One will get the 71 kelsey hayes 4 piston with 68 mustang rotors fpr BB pattern and rear drum. The other is getting Strange race brakes front and rear.
What I have found on the single piston brakes is if they are not lubed properly or if for some reason they stick just a little they get hot while driving. Then they don't stop for ****. 4 piston kelsey hayes release quick and freewheel easy when off the ground . single piston always have a drag some worse then others due to the outside pad against the rotor constantly. I have seen some where you needed the wheel on to turn the rotor when in the air. Did you ever notice that most single piston cars have black powder all over the front wheels. That **** is collecting there even on the highway.
So more then likely its not the style of brake. It is the parts or installation of said parts that is the problem. A power booster will just be a bandaid for another problem that exsists.
All E-bodies came with power disc. except T/A's and AAR's . They had a 1 inch master cylinder with large bearing rotors . Same as used on 73 a-bodies. all other e-bodies even track pack cars had small bearing rotors. They all stopped on a dime. at least the ones I drove.
I am now going to manual on both new builds . One will get the 71 kelsey hayes 4 piston with 68 mustang rotors fpr BB pattern and rear drum. The other is getting Strange race brakes front and rear.
What I have found on the single piston brakes is if they are not lubed properly or if for some reason they stick just a little they get hot while driving. Then they don't stop for ****. 4 piston kelsey hayes release quick and freewheel easy when off the ground . single piston always have a drag some worse then others due to the outside pad against the rotor constantly. I have seen some where you needed the wheel on to turn the rotor when in the air. Did you ever notice that most single piston cars have black powder all over the front wheels. That **** is collecting there even on the highway.
So more then likely its not the style of brake. It is the parts or installation of said parts that is the problem. A power booster will just be a bandaid for another problem that exsists.
All E-bodies came with power disc. except T/A's and AAR's . They had a 1 inch master cylinder with large bearing rotors . Same as used on 73 a-bodies. all other e-bodies even track pack cars had small bearing rotors. They all stopped on a dime. at least the ones I drove.
Have manual 4 wheel disc on my Dart and love them. Have used manual disc on a few E body builds and loved them too.
What don't you like about them?
What don't you like about them?
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I used a alum master from a 85 diplomat, AR engineering adapter plate and stock abody brake rod. The alumni master cyl has a shallower bore , the adapter plate makes up for it so the stock rod fits perfect.
I go to manual brakes when I can. I use the power disc master cylinder. Adds a little more stroke but you don't have to push as hard.
Sounds like you are running drums all around?
Converted my 69 Dart to front disc's and larger rear drums ( had 9" drums all around).
Stomp on the brake pedal and she stops fine.
Ron816
Mopar forever
My 68 big block gts has manual drums on all 4 corners stops fine, it’s all in the proper adjustment.
'80 D150 is getting manual brakes as soon as our snow and cold find someplace else to go ....
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
jduster if your manuals don't stop they are just not set up right. Not the right parts combo, or if drums, maybe the shoes are poor lining or not arced to the drums, etc. Poor choice of wheel cylinder/ master size, etc.
"Generally" larger wheel cylinders/ or smaller master gives you more "lockup" force with less pedal effort but longer pedal travel. Of course the system must be bled, and the pedal should be "rock hard" if so.
Drums--The larger the drums are turned, the worse the shoe diameter fits, and they must be "arced" to the drum diameter. "Good luck" finding a shop with an arcing machine.
If disc, look for odd wear on the pads indicating misalignment between pads/ calipers and disks. Disks must be properly turned and finished to relieve wear patterns Shoe and pad type make a big difference.
When my car was running I had the LOLOL stock drum master with the residual valves disabled, 73 A body disk conversion front, and Ford/ 9" Versailles rear discs. My legs are not that strong anymore. It does require a little push, but you could lock them up no problem. The Dart would easily out-stop the much hated 95 Olds I had at the time.
"Generally" larger wheel cylinders/ or smaller master gives you more "lockup" force with less pedal effort but longer pedal travel. Of course the system must be bled, and the pedal should be "rock hard" if so.
Drums--The larger the drums are turned, the worse the shoe diameter fits, and they must be "arced" to the drum diameter. "Good luck" finding a shop with an arcing machine.
If disc, look for odd wear on the pads indicating misalignment between pads/ calipers and disks. Disks must be properly turned and finished to relieve wear patterns Shoe and pad type make a big difference.
When my car was running I had the LOLOL stock drum master with the residual valves disabled, 73 A body disk conversion front, and Ford/ 9" Versailles rear discs. My legs are not that strong anymore. It does require a little push, but you could lock them up no problem. The Dart would easily out-stop the much hated 95 Olds I had at the time.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
I've converted well over a dozen street cars to Manual, and way more racecars I carefully chose the correct M/C and misc Wheel cyl sizes as per vehicle.
Correct parts help a lot .
Didn't choose "ceramic" performance pads by chance ?
Correct parts help a lot .
Didn't choose "ceramic" performance pads by chance ?
We have all gotten weak with power assist on steering and brakes, heck we complain if our cars don't start on the first rotation of the first crank, we have gotten so used to FI.
Next we will hear complaints that our cars don't automatically stop and steer for us.
Should have added... My 67 dart convertible is stock no power anything, front KH disc, 10" rear drum. It has been stopping great for 321,000 miles.
Next we will hear complaints that our cars don't automatically stop and steer for us.
Should have added... My 67 dart convertible is stock no power anything, front KH disc, 10" rear drum. It has been stopping great for 321,000 miles.
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66340SEDAN
FABO Member #3649
I have big bolt discs and 11” drums in the rear of my 66 Valiant and they work great
boy,got the **** bashed out of me on that post.73 duster front disc rear drum.all stock no missmatched parts,all i did was upgrade to the master cylinder richard e sells and a manual push rod.brake pedal was way too high and took 2 feet to panic stop.maybe something isnt right,all i know is they sucked
Greasyfingers
Well-Known Member
I run the Dr diff manual brake master cylinder with an adjustable push rod. With the 4 wheel disc brakes it stops as well as my 06 Ford. It feels so much safer to drive now.
I put 200 miles on it yesterday, cruising the mountain roads, and it was so much nicer to drive. It was great having control on the twisty roads.
Just adding power assist may not resolve your brake issues. I would try to isolate a possible problem first. Maybe, as it's been said, it's just a matter of mismatched parts.
I put 200 miles on it yesterday, cruising the mountain roads, and it was so much nicer to drive. It was great having control on the twisty roads.
Just adding power assist may not resolve your brake issues. I would try to isolate a possible problem first. Maybe, as it's been said, it's just a matter of mismatched parts.
Boy did you!
And now you know why the brake pedal is so wide!
I know all panic stops can not be avoided, but being a more cautious and aware of the traffic around you can go a long way to never having to panic stop.
Yesterday it snowed here in Northern Colorado for the first time of the season.
You would think everyone was from So Cal and had never driven in snow before.
People spinning their tires for 100 feet at every intersection. People sliding at every stop. Numerous rear end collisions from idiots tailgating. The 4x4 crowd thinking their big bad *** trucks can stop on a dime in snow and ice ending up *** backwards in the center of the road.
Ya wow, 4 red X's.
I wasn't trying to bash ya and thanks for answering my question.
Pedal placement is important. I've used different adjustable rods and made or modified my own to get the pedal where I want it. Is your pedal too hard or soft?
I wasn't trying to bash ya and thanks for answering my question.
Pedal placement is important. I've used different adjustable rods and made or modified my own to get the pedal where I want it. Is your pedal too hard or soft?
I see your in Indiana, anywhere near Sullivan county?
yep vigo
lemondana
BlackDart
I have a pristine 67 Dart 270, manual drum brakes. The brakes down right Suck! Will be installing power disc sometime in the future. I have bad knees and I have a NOS A Body Cruise Control package that I'm going to install. So there!
It just sounds like something is wrong with your setup. My son's valiant stops very easily with the big car discs and an aluminum master cyl. The cyl. came off a junk 85 5th ave.
My sweptline has an iron cyl. off a manual disc a body, with a scarebird disc conversion. It too stops really well.
My son's valiant used to be my wife and I's only car for several years. She drove it as much as I did with manual discs. She never once complained about it. If we left the house, we took the valiant.
My sweptline has an iron cyl. off a manual disc a body, with a scarebird disc conversion. It too stops really well.
My son's valiant used to be my wife and I's only car for several years. She drove it as much as I did with manual discs. She never once complained about it. If we left the house, we took the valiant.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
Kelsey's off my old 71' and 10" drum rear x 2 something wide shoes. MP aluminum master cyl. 4spd helps too.
No problems here.
OP might have issues with the master sizing.
No problems here.
OP might have issues with the master sizing.
11” manual drum brakes on a 6bbl car, no issues. You must’ve done something wrong on the setup.
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