Need a little advice with my 360 teardown

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Mopardan74

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Hi Guys
So I’m tearing down my 76 360 which came out of a Cordoba.
I don’t think it’s ever been apart, but there are a few things I haven’t seen, or am unfamiliar with
First off is the thrust bearing caps, they seem to have punch marks around the edges. Is this a normal thing?
Also, it seems that half the connecting rods on the left bank, have a bronze colour to them, while the others don’t.
Also some of the rods seem to have oiling notches on them, the others don’t..
I just want to make sure I’m not missing anything. Should I just get new rods from summit which already have the arp bolts?
This is just a basic street build, I’m going with speed pro H116CP pistons with Edelbrock heads, intake and XE268 cam
Any advice is appreciated

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In the machine shop we used to use a punch to put punch marks on a surface that we wanted to expand, in your case to decrease the amount of thrust end play??? In this case it's not the right way to correct for excessive thrust!!
 
Treblig said:
In the machine shop we used to use a punch to put punch marks on a surface that we wanted to expand, in your case to decrease the amount of thrust end play??? In this case it's not the right way to correct for excessive thrust!!
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what I was thinking too!
I didn’t think this engine had been apart before, but maybe I was wrong??
 
I agree with tightening up for a too thin cap. Or bearing that is loose on cap.
Not something the factory would do.
Maybe a dealer mechanic.
Look at the bearings for manufacture markings. Not sure what the factory used but I don’t believe that they had names stamped on them. I could be wrong.
 
The copper color comes from the heat treatment done on the rods... sometimes they remove it sometimes not. I have 340 rods that are a mix that came from the same engine. No worries.

Some will say the copper was a plating that fixes mis-machined parts. Not so...

Factory bearing shells will usually have FM (Federal-Mogul) and the bearing size on the back of the shell.
 
This is what I do, follow along with it if you wish.


I zero deck my slugs on new rods these days because the new stronger rods are cheaper than a machinist fixing the old ones.

I hand port match the intake to the heads as deep as I can get the tool in there. I don’t reshape the intake runners at the bends unless the turn is sharp.

I use a head gasket around .040. The Fel-Pro’s come in at .038. This gives a good safe quench distance. Degree the cam. Or at the very least, check piston to valve clearance with the head torqued down. Double check the lifters before you install them. You might have to take them apart just to get the plunger to be depressed.

You may have to mill your intake .050-.060 to sit right.
 
what compression are you looking for?
how do you get any quench with that piston without milling the deck a bunch and then you have 11:1
rethink the piston
and the comp cam leaves torque on the table compared to a lunati and it's noisey
how did you pick 268
 
Wyrmrider said:
what compression are you looking for?
how do you get any quench with that piston without milling the deck a bunch and then you have 11:1
rethink the piston
and the comp cam leaves torque on the table compared to a lunati and it's noisey
how did you pick 268
Click to expand...
I’m looking for no more than 10.5:1
Which lunati and pistons would you recommend?
 
rumblefish360 said:
This is what I do, follow along with it if you wish.


I zero deck my slugs on new rods these days because the new stronger rods are cheaper than a machinist fixing the old ones.

I hand port match the intake to the heads as deep as I can get the tool in there. I don’t reshape the intake runners at the bends unless the turn is sharp.

I use a head gasket around .040. The Fel-Pro’s come in at .038. This gives a good safe quench distance. Degree the cam. Or at the very least, check piston to valve clearance with the head torqued down. Double check the lifters before you install them. You might have to take them apart just to get the plunger to be depressed.

You may have to mill your intake .050-.060 to sit right.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the advice
Should I be concerned about the bearing caps, Should I use different ones? I’ve never seen one with punch holes like that
 
Rumble has got the right idea.
The 268 cam requires a lot of compression to not fall on it's face at low rpm, and you've got that covered with the closed-chamber Eddie heads. Here's the deal with those Eddie heads, combined with Rumble's Tight-Q plan; I have run 185psi with that combo and it burned 87E10 at 34* Power-timing,which is all the Eddies need. Some FABO members have reported 200psi, still on pump gas. So don't be afraid of pressure, with the tight-Quench design.
With a zero-deck 360, and those 63cc Eddies, a compression ratio of 10.7 is easy. It falls together that way,with just decking.
At 600ft elevation,
with the FTH 268* cam,and an Ica of 62*, your cylinder pressure is predicted to be ~ 179ps. That is a good number; the pressure will make a lot of low-rpm torque, and the 268 will bring it, at the top.
But;
Having followed Rumble's plan, I can almost guarantee that you will have more fun with the next smaller cam. And if you go with a solid-lifter design, then you can go one smaller again on the advertised.. And now you will have gobs and gobs of low-rpm power, so the 3.23s (typical rear gear) and factory stall (2500typical for a 340) can stay. And, the 262*solid-lifter cam with 3.23s will have the potential to make more mpgs than any stock 318 ever did.
Yes the Hi-rpm power will be less, but recall that with 3.23s, that 5000 in second is, what did I say? oh yeah 78 mph; and 60mph is just ~3850. In first, the tires will be smoking until you shift. So are you gonna miss 15 hp at 5000rpm/78mph? I didn't. I was having way too much fun with the right power at the right speed.
But at stall, to say 3800, you haven't lived until you have experienced an SBM with hi-pressure. On the street, and under 60 mph, I would venture to say that it can do anything a factory-stock 440Magnum of 1968 can do;pound for pound/gear for gear/and stall for stall. It almost makes me giddy just to think about it.
If you have not yet purchased a cam, check Wyrmrider's data-base.

This post has been severely edited for Rumble;
 
AJ/FormS said:
Rumble has got the right idea.
The 268 cam requires a lot of compression to not fall on it's face at low rpm, and you've got that covered with the closed-chamber Eddie heads. Here's the deal with those Eddie heads, combined with Rumble's Tight-Q plan; I have run 185psi with that combo and it burned 87E10 at 34* Power-timing,which is all the Eddies need. Some FABO members have reported 200psi, still on pump gas. So don't be afraid of pressure, with the tight-Quench design.
With a zero-deck 360, and those 63cc Eddies, a compression ratio of 10.7 is easy. It falls together that way,with just decking.
At 600ft elevation,
with the FTH 268* cam,and an Ica of 62*, your cylinder pressure is predicted to be ~ 179ps. That is a good number; the pressure will make a lot of low-rpm torque, and the 268 will bring it, at the top.
But;
Having followed Rumble's plan, I can almost guarantee that you will have more fun with the next smaller cam. And if you go with a solid-lifter design, then you can go one smaller again on the advertised.. And now you will have gobs and gobs of low-rpm power, so the 3.23s (typical rear gear) and factory stall (2500typical for a 340) can stay. And, the 262*solid-lifter cam with 3.23s will have the potential to make more mpgs than any stock 318 ever did.
Yes the Hi-rpm power will be less, but recall that with 3.23s, that 5000 in second is, what did I say? oh yeah 78 mph; and 60mph is just ~3850. In first, the tires will be smoking until you shift. So are you gonna miss 15 hp at 5000rpm/78mph? I didn't. I was having way too much fun with the right power at the right speed.
But at stall, to say 3800, you haven't lived until you have experienced an SBM with hi-pressure. On the street, and under 60 mph, I would venture to say that it can do anything a factory-stock 440Magnum of 1968 can do;pound for pound/gear for gear/and stall for stall. It almost makes me giddy just to think about it.
If you have not yet purchased a cam, check Wyrmrider's data-base.

This post has been severely edited for Rumble;
Click to expand...
Thank you to all for the advice.
I have not purchased the cam yet, so I will do some more research!
 
there are a TON of 8.5:1-10:1 360's running around with the 268 cams and they are not soft at all.

It all in the tune up. Theory and reality are miles apart sometimes.

Want it to run well, buy a good converter if it's an auto car.
 
You know what happens when you put a 268 into an 8.5 Scr engine? Hyup the pressure drops into the basement ; about 130psi @600ft elevation.
Some of my farts, I am pretty sure, have bested that, and I'm at 930 ft.
360s are a lil better at hiding softness by virtue of their slightly longer stroke. But eliminate the hi-stall and the performance gears, and then all you have left is pressure, and if it sucks yer stuck with it. Not every body wants a big TC and near race gearing .
But again, everybody makes a 268; some build pressure and some are dogs, yet all are 268s. that's why the advertised means nothing to power production, but is everything to a streeter, and the reputation of a quality manufacturer can be more valuable than gold.
A 268 cam could be anywhere from about 220 to [email protected] when measured at 008 tappet lift, and bigger at .006.. and from actual seat to seat and building pressure, could be ridiculously huge. And as you know, all that intake duration is killing cylinder pressure. And the more of it that you kill it, the more narrow becomes the engine's operating range, and so back to the drawing board for a higher stall and more starter gear. But it's still a 268* cam. Round and round it goes.
A good 268 in a hi pressure engine is a GREAT combo. But stuff a lousy one into a low pressure engine, and you get an instant sinking feeling in your gut. Been there done that. And there is no tuning a wet noodle, except with bandaids, or a start-over. Been there and done that too.
 
Yep... SOS Oh don't put that 284/484 cam in a 9:1 engine, it'll NEVER run... Whatever. I'm outta here.

Good luck to the OP on the build.
 
AJ's opinion;
and not directed at anyone in particular;
There is no deal anyone could make me, on a normally-aspirated, FTH 268-equipped, 8.5/1 Scr, 360 engine, none. I don't care whose cam is in it, I don't want it not even for free. I'm not pointing to the cam, and not pointing to the meager Scr. I am pointing to the very low cylinder pressure that this combo makes; I don't want it, it has no potential, no character, no zest. It needs three friends to bust it's way out of the wet-paper bag it is; namely a higher stall, a deeper starter gear, and weight reduction..
If someone gave me such an engine, and I needed it for street-anything, I would immediately take it apart and reconfigure it to create some pressure.

To show you how serious I am, Not many years ago, I took my personal engine out,just to deck it an additional .007 , to work with a one-size bigger than 268 cam.Sure, I couldda done that with a thinner gasket, but after puking the .028s out,on a previous iteration, I was stuck to the FelPro .039s.. That brought my Q down to .031 average, and the pressure up to 177/180. This created the combo that is said to still have been spinning the 325/50-15 BFG DRs at 93 mph in the 660, and my tach was stuck between 7000 and 7200 (manual trans) the entire distance; telling me the same thing. Not bad for a street 360. Of course the other end is every bit as strong. and so is the midrange. Cuz that's what pressure does. The entire rev-range is boosted.
 
OP said
Mopardan74 said:
This is just a basic street build, I’m going with speed pro H116CP pistons with Edelbrock heads, intake and XE268 cam
Any advice is appreciated
Click to expand...
Street engines are not race engines
I'm not arguing that a 284 in a 9/1 engine can't make power at the track. But OP is not gonna run 4.30s and a 4000stall on the street!
OP just wants a "basic street build" with Edelbrock heads. And He's starting from scratch. I offered my opinion.
Here's another;
Not in a million years would I put a 284/484 in a 9/1 360 engine for street use.

I learned my lesson with a 292/292/108 in an 11.3 Eddie headed combo. I wouldn't do that again either. With 3.55s the power didn't hit until 47mph in first gear. Pressure mightabeen 178, after I advanced the cam for the third time.....
In a 9/1 engine, that puppy wouldda been sick at 125psi. A stone-cold stock 318Magnum mighta hung with it for quite aways.
I took that 292 cam out right smartly, and replaced it with a 270/110, dropped the Scr to 10.7, and that fattened up the whole street performance arena.
I give advice on what I know, and I know what makes a ho-hum alloy headed street-360, and I know what makes a wicked alloy-headed street-360, because I have built them both. OP is so close.

This reminds me of the time in 1970/71, I was arguing with my dad ,that since my 340 was making ~300hp, it would make a good engine for a hiway tractor, cuz back in 1970 they were only making 250ish hp. Dad couldn't convince me that at only 340 ftlbs my 340 wouldn't stand a chance against their over 900ftlbs. I eventually figured it out, but Dad was right; at the age of 17, I really was dumb as a sack of hammers. Dad was right about a lot of things.
 
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I guess 12.20's at 110 with a 9:1 360 and a xe268h cam in a 3300# car is soft. OK... The 60' was just a smidge off the ET. Either you know what to do or you don't. Simple as that. Carry on Tolstoy.

To the OP, talk to guys that build engines for a living that have built a LOT of 9:1-10:1 360's with a XE268h or Lunati 268 cam. It's not rocket science.

Put a stock 410/429 stick in it otherwise you might hurt yourself. :) </sarcasm>

Out for good this time.
 
The thing being is that engine, built the way I described, will run on pump gas, make very good power everywhere and run most any cam without blinking an eye. Long ago I did the home work AJ rights oust frequently. This EZ build combo flat out works across a large verity of street situations.

@Mopardan74 I don’t see any reason not to run it. Getting new caps introduces a good bit more of expenditure that is t needed. As long as the cap does it’s job, use it. Those dimples do nothing against the cap.

Wyrmrider will (or I least think he will) point you’re to the Lunati version of the Comp Cam your looking at. He reallllllly likes him camshafts and routinely picks them apart at every .00000000001 point.

Wyrmrider knows that the deck has to be milled a bunch to get a good quench. And to rethink the piston. I don’t know off hand what flat top piston will come in at or at least super close to a zero deck height. MoPar states the stock deck height at one spec but all the engines I have had for the last 30 years come in a good bit taller. All of them need to be milled for a zero deck height.

Im using those exact slugs in the wife’s engine now. Block milled down for a zero deck and trick flows up top.
 
Could you post some more pictures of that #3 main cap. Even thou it has a #3 on it, it does not appear to be an actual thrust cap, it looks more like a cap used in position 1,2 or 4, I don't see the under cut machining of the cap for a thrust bearing!
edit ,bad spelling
 
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Mopardan74 said:
I’m looking for no more than 10.5:1
Which lunati and pistons would you recommend?
Click to expand...
I'm going with a lunati voodoo 10200702 cam and kb107 pistons and I'm right at 10:1
I actually wanted to go with speed pro h116cp pistons but they where sold out in the size I needed
 
Mopardan74 said:
Hi Guys
So I’m tearing down my 76 360 which came out of a Cordoba.
I don’t think it’s ever been apart, but there are a few things I haven’t seen, or am unfamiliar with
First off is the thrust bearing caps, they seem to have punch marks around the edges. Is this a normal thing?
Also, it seems that half the connecting rods on the left bank, have a bronze colour to them, while the others don’t.
Also some of the rods seem to have oiling notches on them, the others don’t..
I just want to make sure I’m not missing anything. Should I just get new rods from summit which already have the arp bolts?
This is just a basic street build, I’m going with speed pro H116CP pistons with Edelbrock heads, intake and XE268 cam
Any advice is appreciated

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Click to expand...
 
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