Need advice on my 318

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Edelbrock 600 CFM
Weiand Action+Plus Manifold
"302 Casting" Heads with Port, Polish, and Valve Job (Upgrade exhaust valve to 1.60)
Mopar Thin Head Gasket
COMP Cams XE268H
Depending on cylinder wall and crankshaft condition, a basic re-ring/rebuild would be just fine.

It's a basic recipe that should satisfy your needs and won't break the bank too bad.
 
My bad...didn't know what year car you were working on. However, I have read here on FABO that my manifold sets will work on the early As with P/S. I've been looking for a volunteer to give it a try if they would post the results here on FABO. I even offered a discount on my manifolds and offered to pay for part of the shipping. I've been running the thread looking for a volunteer here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=301859&highlight=treblig

Haven't had any takers. But you're extremely close to Corpus compared to everyone else on FABO. If you read all the posts in my thread you'll find quotes from othes who have actually done it. I don't have an early A or I would have tried it myself. If you lived closer I would just lend them to you so you could try them yourself!!! IT WOULD BE GREAT!!!

treblig
 
My bad...didn't know what year car you were working on. However, I have read here on FABO that my manifold sets will work on the early As with P/S. I've been looking for a volunteer to give it a try if they would post the results here on FABO. I even offered a discount on my manifolds and offered to pay for part of the shipping. I've been running the thread looking for a volunteer here:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=301859&highlight=treblig

Haven't had any takers. But you're extremely close to Corpus compared to everyone else on FABO. If you read all the posts in my thread you'll find quotes from othes who have actually done it. I don't have an early A or I would have tried it myself. If you lived closer I would just lend them to you so you could try them yourself!!! IT WOULD BE GREAT!!!

treblig


Hell if we're just talking manifolds I can pick those up in my car. I'd be down to try them out and if they fit pay for them. If not I can ship them back or something. When I have more time after work I'll read through the threads and see what exactly you are offering and if I think it may work. Pretty awesome if it does! Not many manifold/ header options for this car/engine combo. I plan on getting dyno'd once all is set up so that would at least give you one set of numbers
 
Edelbrock 600 CFM
Weiand Action+Plus Manifold
"302 Casting" Heads with Port, Polish, and Valve Job (Upgrade exhaust valve to 1.60)
Mopar Thin Head Gasket
COMP Cams XE268H
Depending on cylinder wall and crankshaft condition, a basic re-ring/rebuild would be just fine.

It's a basic recipe that should satisfy your needs and won't break the bank too bad.



Thanks! That's basically exactly what I'm looking for, an exact recipe!
 
Thanks! That's basically exactly what I'm looking for, an exact recipe!

I have a set of 302s on my Barracuda right now, that's why I have the original '69 heads on the shelf. As far as the manifolds are concerned, I would sell them to you unpainted (so you can get them dirty and it won't matter). Then if they don't work and you don't damage them I'll simply buy them back. If they do work you can keep them. I keep these manifolds in stock so I don't mind buying them back, it's kind of a hobby. But take your time and read through all the posts on the thread. I've built up my stock of manifolds for the coming spring. Most of the buyers are up North (and Canada) and those folks don't build nearly as much during the winter so I stock up during the winter and sell in spring and summer. Here are some pics of what I keep in stock. Actually I have more than what you see in the pics but it's too much trouble to haul them all out into the sun then put them all back just for a few pics.

And remember....you would be trying the 60s 340 driver which gives you more clearance than the 70s 340. They flow the same but the 60s is designed for more clearance. The 70s 340 would probably not work at all!!!!

Treblig
 

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One thing I'm confused on...you say you are looking for someone willing to make modifications, do you mean to the manifold or other things? Because you also say you'll buy them back if they are undamaged, but wouldn't modifying them be damaging them?

Also be aware my timeline is not set right now. I just got the car this past Sunday. After I pick up the engine on Wednesday I can't say for sure when it will be ready to go in. I've also got to decide on rebuilding the tranny. Lots to do and consider before I get to manifolds. I think you mentioned you wanted someone with no ps. I'm pretty sure mine has it, but I'm considering removing it if it's as unnecessary as others say
 
One thing I'm confused on...you say you are looking for someone willing to make modifications, do you mean to the manifold or other things? Because you also say you'll buy them back if they are undamaged, but wouldn't modifying them be damaging them?

Also be aware my timeline is not set right now. I just got the car this past Sunday. After I pick up the engine on Wednesday I can't say for sure when it will be ready to go in. I've also got to decide on rebuilding the tranny. Lots to do and consider before I get to manifolds. I think you mentioned you wanted someone with no ps. I'm pretty sure mine has it, but I'm considering removing it if it's as unnecessary as others say

NO rush at all, take your time. These things sell like hot cakes so I'm not worried at all. If you read the thread link you'll see that there may be some grinding needed (but I'm not sure). They are supposed to work with minor mods. I'm sure you'll be able to determine if they will work before you grind, if they won't work I'll buy them back and pay the shipping back to me!! I do know that the motor mounts you use also play a role in how much clearance you have. Old worn out motor mounts allow the engine to sit lower. Other mounts, like Shumaker, make the engine sit a little higher giving you more clearance on the P/S (of course shims do the same thing). The link I posted says that you might have to grind a little off the p/S box (not much) and a little off the manifold (maybe). But it's no big deal, if you don't want to take the risk I totally understand. Like I said, if you lived next door I would just lend them to you so I could see for myself and say "grind that sucker to see if it clears!!!"
Yes, I wanted someone without P/S but you live so close and I know know other members have used these manifolds with P/S. But again, I'm only doing this to help out Early A members. I sell the great majority of my manifolds to 67 and up A body members so I don't need more customers. It's just something that's been bugging me and I want to know for sure if they work and what it takes to make them work. You have no idea how many Early A members have written to me asking if my manifolds will work on their cars. I would love to give them a good answer.
Don't worry about it, I'm not going anywhere and I'm in no hurry. I haven't even advertised my manifolds for about 3 months just to take a break from all the orders.

treblig
 
Picking up my 318 on Wednesday...it is already partially torn down. My goal is to get some extra horsepower out of it for a little money as possible.

I'd already planned on a rebuild kit for it, but while it's torn down I was thinking it might be a good idea to give it new pistons to improve the CR, and a new cam/timing chain set.

Assuming I use Keith Black domed pistons, and with the new cam (but not a new intake, headers, or carb), how much of a increase in HP can I expect?

Or would it be better to rebuild it to factory specs with a new cam and replace the intake and carb? Or machine work on the heads even? I'm ok with milling the head as long as I don't have to shave the intake as well.

In other words, of the following items, what should I go with to get to around 275-300hp?

Pistons
Cam
Intake
Carb
Head porting/bigger valves

If a new cam is definitely in the equation, what cam should I go with? I want the car to be a bit aggressive, but nothing too crazy.

To give a good answer on what you need to do we need to know what you're working with already. What all can you tell us about this 318? You said it's partially torn down but that could mean a lot of things. It it torn Down to the short block or are the heads and everything still on it? If the long block is still intact you should compression test it. What year is the engine? What kind of mileage does it have? If you have to dig into the bottom end then things can get expensive. Boring it out and putting new Pistons in isn't cheap. The new pistons won't weigh what the old ones did so a balance job wouldn't be a bad idea either, also not cheap.

Cam choice is dependent on a lot of factors. What kind of gears does the car have? You mentioned that you couldn't use the 318 with your current transmission. What kind of engine and transmission does the car already have? What kind of cylinder heads are with the 318? If you want to have bigger valves installed and have them ported, that wouldn't be cheap. Porting them yourself could save money but you could also hurt flow if you port them badly.

If you want to make a lot of power then you would have to do more to a 318 to reach those goals than you would have to do to a 360. But if you just want to have a peppy 318 that will burn some rubber then that's definitely doable. I built a 318 because I couldn't find a 340 or 360. I did it "on the cheap" too. I started with a stock '68 318. I skipped the machine shop aside from hot tanking the block and installing new cam bearings. I tore it down to the bare block and everything looked pretty good and there was a tiny ridge on the cylinder that I reamed off before I honed it. Kept the stock Pistons and just got new rings. New bearings too. While you're in there it's a good idea to replace the oil pump since it's cheap and easy to access with the pan off. Timing chain was SHOT. The thing was missing half the nylon teeth and the chain was so sloppy I'm surprised it didn't jump when I ran the engine before the tear down. I went with a true roller timing chain for the rebuild. Heads were in good shape and were recently rebuilt so I lapped in the valves and intalled COMP 901-16 springs and the heads were ready to go back on. I found an Edelbrock 600CFM 1405 carb here on FABO and bought it then rebuilt it. Got a performer intake here too (thanks Treblig!! :cheers: ). Cam is a COMP HE268 with .454/.454 lift and 268°/268° duration on a 110° LSA. I think it's 218° at .050" lift but don't quote me on that lol. It's very streetable, works with my power brakes, and it has some lope to it and sounds pretty good! I've also got Hooker Competition headers but you say you're keeping manifolds for now which would still work well with the HE268.

That's the route I took and I'm pleased with the way it performs. Not bad at all for a pretty much stock long block 318. It'll burn 295/50r15's pretty good and sounds pissed through 3" dual exhaust, especially with the electric cutouts open. A general refresh with some upgrades isn't too expensive and in the end you'll end up with a peppy engine that will be fun on the street. Will it make a ton of horsepower and lay waste to everything on the street? No, but it doesn't need to. You said your goal was to get extra horsepower from this 318 for as little as possible and I think this isnt a bad way to go about it. As far as the total costs go I think a re-ring kit is under $300 (I didn't go for a kit. I chose all my parts individually but to each is own) and has most of what you'll need. Go for a double roller timing chain at least. Don't go back with a stock one. Cam & lifters are about $200, you should be able to pick up a 600cfm vacuum secondary (or mechanical if you go with a manual transmission) for not a whole lot. I think I've got less than $150 in mine and it was almost brand new on the inside when I went to rebuild it. Intake, I say go for an LD4B if you can find one since they're for smaller 273/318 ports but a Performer 318/360 will work good and they're cheap. $100-$150 and readily available. You could build a decent performing 318 for under $1,000 that will run for many years, assuming you start with a good engine.

If the 318 you're looking at is in bad shape and needs a complete rebuild, I say find something else. Refresh = on the cheap. Rebuild = not cheap at all. I'm rebuilding a 340 for my Dart right now and I've got more money in the machine work for it than I have in my entire 318 . My cylinder heads got completely rebuilt and milled and that ran about $400, having the rods redone done with ARP bolts added was $175, balancing was $175, turning and polishing the crank was $125. You also have to figure in the cost of everything that needs done to the block and the cost of new Pistons and other parts you'll need which will add up fast. If you want to build the 318 on the cheap then re-ring it and add a mild cam, 4bbl, and dual exhaust. Maybe head porting and a gasket match if you're up for it. If it's too worn out and needs the works then you might want to look at a different engine if you're on a budget.

The more info you can give us on what your car already has, what kind of condition the 318 is in and what parts it has, and what your goal for the car is.. The better we can help you out. I think 318's are very capable little engines with some upgrades and I think it'd do good in your Dart if you want a peppy driver and not a street/strip machine.
 
If I get the head milled by a conservative amount AND used a thin head gasket, could I get up to 9.5:1 and not have to shave the intake?

I'd recommend .020 on the block side, .019 on the intake side of the heads. That way the heads are matched and you can use any intake. That will get you a little more compression and get the heads to seal to the block. Get the guides tightened up and a performance valve job from someone who knows what they are doing. Next a good set of rings, Speed pro file to fit. If you get new pistons, bore and hone with torque plates. The four barrel carb and intake, cam with a round 268 duration, valve springs to match a double roller timing chain, and a windage tray would be nice. Should be pretty sweet. All assuming you have a decent engine to start with. To be really cheap, gaskets and seals, do the heads, rings, rod bearings, cam stuff and carb and intake. Dual exhaust down the road...
 
To give a good answer on what you need to do we need to know what you're working with already. What all can you tell us about this 318? You said it's partially torn down but that could mean a lot of things. It it torn Down to the short block or are the heads and everything still on it? If the long block is still intact you should compression test it. What year is the engine? What kind of mileage does it have? If you have to dig into the bottom end then things can get expensive. Boring it out and putting new Pistons in isn't cheap. The new pistons won't weigh what the old ones did so a balance job wouldn't be a bad idea either, also not cheap.


Thanks Blue, that's a lot of good advice...as for the information on the engine I won't know more till I see it, but I know its a 68 out of a Coronet. I was told it was partially disassembled, I assume that means the top end is apart. I'll ask about mileage when I go see it.

As for my car, as I've said its a 66' Dart GT with console auto shifter and a 225 /6. I haven't been able to look under the hood yet (I'm in Vegas and the car was delivered while I've been out of state), but I'm pretty sure it will have power steering, it has a fair amount of options.

Right now the car is in front of my house with 4 flats, I'm sure the HOA is loving that! I'm eventually going to put an 8.8 rear end (that's the plan as of right now anyway) with 3.73 gears in it. For now its got the stock 7-1/4" rear end and small bolt pattern. I've bought some large bolt circle adapters so I can lose the 13" wheels and I'm picking up a set of magnum 500s on Sunday for $50. That way I can throw some cheap tires on it and roll it into the garage.

Eventually a brake swap in the front will give me the large bolt pattern up there too.
 
I'll hopefully pass this car down to my son and it needs to not be a beast. That's why I'm not looking for a 340 or 360.

The dart currently has a /6 and 904.

Oops. That just flew over my head lol well that's what I get for trying to do algebra homework while I read and post here. If it's going to your son one day then I think a 318 fits the bill nicely. Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan with the 8.8 and 318. My engine was out of a '68 Plymouth Fury III. Scored the complete 318/727 combo on Craigslist and it ran. If you were local Id sell you my 727 and all the stuff that went with it for cheap since I've got a manual trans and the 727 is just taking up space. Good luck with the build and I hope all goes well. Building your own engine is definitely a rewarding and fun thing to do. The 318 will be a big step up from that little slant! All this engine talk is getting me excited to build my 340!
 
An update for Treyblig... Just 30 min ago I found a guy who has the 273 66 dart manifold near my home...its a ***** to find but for $65 I can pass it up. If you still want to see if your 360 header fits I don't mind checking, but can't buy it since I'll already have what I was after. I know the 360 flows better, but to get a 100% figment guarantee is Valueable. On the same note, does it make any sense to use the 273 manifold in one side and a 360 on the other? What happens if one side of your exhaust flows better?
 
Oops. That just flew over my head lol well that's what I get for trying to do algebra homework while I read and post here. If it's going to your son one day then I think a 318 fits the bill nicely. Sounds like you've got a pretty good plan with the 8.8 and 318. My engine was out of a '68 Plymouth Fury III. Scored the complete 318/727 combo on Craigslist and it ran. If you were local Id sell you my 727 and all the stuff that went with it for cheap since I've got a manual trans and the 727 is just taking up space. Good luck with the build and I hope all goes well. Building your own engine is definitely a rewarding and fun thing to do. The 318 will be a big step up from that little slant! All this engine talk is getting me excited to build my 340!


Thanks Blue, when he gets the dart, daddy gets a 68 cuda!
 
What year is the 318? If a simple rebuild is in the works, specify a 67-70 piston. This is the tallest of the 318 pistons meaning higher compression with no machine work. My Demon has a 68 318 and 302 heads. We've measured the CR @ 9.3:1 with nothing more than a little clean-up on the block surface and heads.

The parts situation in Central Texas isn't what it used to be since Dr. Mopar closed shop. But I've gotten stuff from Harold's in Briggs, Texas Acres in Harker Heights, and Pick n' Pull in San Antonio all of which are around an hours' drive from Austin. Way back in time there was a Mopar club in Austin (MMCA, http://www.mopar.org) that may be a good source of leads for parts.
 
What year is the 318? If a simple rebuild is in the works, specify a 67-70 piston. This is the tallest of the 318 pistons meaning higher compression with no machine work. My Demon has a 68 318 and 302 heads. We've measured the CR @ 9.3:1 with nothing more than a little clean-up on the block surface and heads.

The parts situation in Central Texas isn't what it used to be since Dr. Mopar closed shop. But I've gotten stuff from Harold's in Briggs, Texas Acres in Harker Heights, and Pick n' Pull in San Antonio all of which are around an hours' drive from Austin. Way back in time there was a Mopar club in Austin (MMCA, http://www.mopar.org) that may be a good source of leads for parts.

The 318 is a 68, I was thinking domed Pistons, but the I don't need to replace them I'll probably just mill the head down.
 
IIRC 67-69 and 80's LA rollers (which have the 302 head) are advertised as 9.2:1.

That's about perfect for pump gas 87 even.

No need to change pistons unless they're junk.

In case no one's mentioned it, you'll also need to address the K frame/engine mount issue, and some other minor bracket and cable stuff.


...and let's not forget gross vs net HP.
 
IIRC 67-69 and 80's LA rollers (which have the 302 head) are advertised as 9.2:1.

That's about perfect for pump gas 87 even.

No need to change pistons unless they're junk.

In case no one's mentioned it, you'll also need to address the K frame/engine mount issue, and some other minor bracket and cable stuff.


...and let's not forget gross vs net HP.


Yes, I've done a lot of research for the swap, and have sources for the mounts, throttle cable and go pedal, dropped centerline, etc.

I was under the impression the k-frame didn't need to be replaced because it was the same one used for the v8 version
 
I was under the impression the k-frame didn't need to be replaced because it was the same one used for the v8 version

Right on the K-frame. Just need the isolators and a-body motor mounts.

The later 318 pistons were flat tops. The earlier factory pistons had 4 valve reliefs.
 

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