Need some help from my head machining buddies

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  1. pittsburghracer

    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I’m getting the itch to buy something to improve my head seat valve angle machining. My buddy has he’s pretty sure a Peterson seat and guide machine. He hasn’t used it in over well over 10 plus years probably closer to 20 as he closed his shop. I honestly can’t remember what it even looks like but I know it has an air operated float table. Now if I would buy something like this can it be set up to do like 70-60-45-30-15 degree seats or 55 if I bought the cutters? He’s looking for around 2000.00 with tooling. He also had a mill but that would be to big for me. Thanks for any help.
     
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    • yellow rose

      yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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      Depends on which model it is. In order to do accurate work with carbide cutters the entire frame has to be rigid as well as the head table.

      I used carbide pilots for rigidity, and those have to be checked for wear on the surface the cutter body rides on, as well as the cutter body itself.

      It can’t be too rigid.
       
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      • pittsburghracer

        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        I’m going to meet him at his shop at 12 tomorrow. He is heading back to Florida on the 26th. He even said I could make payments.
         
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        • yellow rose

          yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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          Well...that makes the deal sweeter.

          I have done many valve jobs with a Peterson that was not real rigid. You can do it, but you can’t crowd the tooling, or machine a big oversize valve job with just the seat tooling. I used a couple of cutters first to get the majority of the material out then finished with the seat cutter.

          With some of the less rigid machines, you can move the entire head table machining the seat!!!
           
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          • MOPAROFFICIAL

            MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            I would think you could put whatever cutter you'd like.
             
          • pittsburghracer

            pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            He did tell me it’s so much faster than using a Bridgeport mill as you don’t have to reset everything each time. I know a mill can do more but it probably another tool I wouldn’t use. I know having the ability to cut seats would come in handy.
             
          • Mopar Sam

            Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

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            The Peterson TCM are pretty good machines, a local guy has one and his table is pretty rigid. My old DCM Tech is built like a tank, and has variable speed driven by a VFD. The guy I know with the Peterson is able to use serdi type tooling.
             
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            • Mopar Sam

              Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

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              If he has the level for it be sure to get it, they aren't cheap. I have to level mine constantly because the Peabody coal mine is now about a mile and a half away. I used to hardly ever have to level it, but now..... For every head.
               
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              • pittsburghracer

                pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Are these 3 phase.
                 
              • toolmanmike

                toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                Wow. I looked at some photos. Those things are dinosaur's.
                 
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                • pittsburghracer

                  pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  I have a rotary phase converter I picked up years ago that was never used but I would have to check to see if it’s big enough.
                   
                • turboking15

                  turboking15 Well-Known Member

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                  Depending on motor hp, look into a vfd. I bought one of the 10hp ones from ebay to run my 3 phase ingersoll air compressor. Works great and is the size of a small shoebox.
                   
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                  • pittsburghracer

                    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                    Do you remember approximately what you paid for it.
                     
                  • turboking15

                    turboking15 Well-Known Member

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                    • brian6pac

                      brian6pac Well-Known Member

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                      I bought one for my Jet bridgeport 3hp for $80.00 off ebay and it works great

                      IMG_5509.JPG
                       
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                      • skrews

                        skrews Well-Known Member

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                        As mentioned earlier you can't take big cuts with it. You'll have to toggle between 3 angle seat cutter and 75° bowl cutter when increasing valve size. The more angles you try to cut in one shot will cause more deflection. I have used a DCM, Sunnen VG20, and a Kwik Way Head Shop. The Kwik Way looks similar to the Peterson. It is not a ridgid machine, but can do good work once you learn the quirks.

                        Pic of the Kwik Way I use.
                        e56dABd.jpg
                         
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                        • PRH

                          PRH Well-Known Member

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                          To upgrade the seat cutting tooling to the “serdi style”, between cutter bodies, tip holders, an assortment of inserts, and a setting fixture....... it’s real easy to end up spending a couple grand.

                          The Goodson starter kit is about $1000.

                          I’d also buy a few new pilots of the real common sizes right off the bat.

                          I can’t offer any insight about the intricacies of using that type of machine....... all i’ve ever used are VGS-20’s and a VGS-19.
                           
                          Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
                        • killerslant

                          killerslant FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          I have a TCM also. Did upgrade to the replaceable cutters from goodson. I went to a 25hp rotary after my vfd died
                          It did not seem to like it if you instant reverse alot.
                           
                        • pittsburghracer

                          pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                          Ok I went to see it and man it’s parked in tight. Like I said he moved from Pa to Florida and closed the shop years ago. It’s dirty and would need some love to make it pretty and usable again. It’s a Winona (Van Norman) type RV12 machine with lots of well used tooling and spring pocket cutters but zero valve seat cutters. I wouldn’t pay 2000.00 for it when he wants 2000.00 for a Jet Mill sitting right next to it. He said make an offer so I have some research to do but I know the mill is to big for my shop and at 64 have never ran one. Moving either machine the 12 miles from his shop to mine would need hired experts.
                           
                        • Krooser

                          Krooser Reform School Graduate

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                          I was dealing on a Peterson 25 recently....machine with stand and air float table and 40lbs of good tooling $1500.00.
                           
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                          • PRH

                            PRH Well-Known Member

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                            He wants to unload it....... if the basic mechanicals of it are still good...... I’d say offer him a grand for it....... and go from there.

                            You should be able to move it on to a trailer with a pallet jack and some helpers.
                             
                            Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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                            • PRH

                              PRH Well-Known Member

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                              • gzig5

                                gzig5 Well-Known Member

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                                I agree, moving machines is not as hard as you think, especially if you have a concrete floor to work with. I R an engineer, and I've been moving mills and lathes the Egyptian way for years. It's easy to roll them across the floor on three or four sections of 1/2" black pipe and a crow bar. I loaded these two 600+lb mills onto the trailer and off with the help of a buddy. I've done the same with a 2500 lb 14x40 metal lathe. Jack or pry the machine up onto short blocks and bolt a pair of boards to the base if the bottom of the base is not straight or even. Remove as much as you can and lower or remove the head to make it less tippy.

                                IMG_1515.jpg

                                IMG_1517.jpg
                                 
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                                • replicaracer43

                                  replicaracer43 Grumpy Old Man

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                                  That type of machine is excellent for productivity, because as mentioned, the air float table makes it quick to move from seat to seat. The real key to accuracy is getting the pilot centered dead true to the spindle, takes a bit of practice and "feel" Also, carbide pilots are better than steel. A bridgeport style mill with a rollover head fixture works great too, but takes longer
                                   
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                                  • pittsburghracer

                                    pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                                    I get these stupid thoughts in my mind especially after helping my buddy redrill my new pushrod holes in my Edelbrock heads with his Bridgeport. I’m good at buying and lately bad at using new tools. At 8-10 dollars per hole my local machine shop is more than fair when I need or want bigger valves in my heads. But their valve angle choices are very limited. When they did a radius intake valve job (2.08) on a set of new Edelbrock heads it really screwed me.
                                     
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