No crank starer

[KosmicKuda]

I was lucky enough to obtain a 69 Charger last October. I bought it from a widow whose husband died last April. He owned it since 1995 and put less than 50 miles on it. Apparently a previous owner was converting it to a "racecar". Consequently a lot of the interior and unnecessary items in the engine compartment were stripped away, console, heater/AC, sway bar, etc. There are many cut off wires and plugs dangling behind the dash.

For the present I just want to make it a reliable cruiser in spite of the lumpy cam, reverse manual valve body, loose converter, rusty headers with bullet mufflers, etc. It looks like a time capsule under the hood with Mallory dual point distributor and coil. All the hot rod parts are like new because they have almost no miles on them since they were installed more than 30 miles ago.

The starting has always been intermittent, sometimes it cranks and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't, I have been shorting the starter relay with a screwdriver. The starter itself was hit or miss and was getting worse so I finally swapped it out with a known good mini starter 2 days ago on one of the hottest most humid days this year. I set a new personal record for sweating and cussing. The old large style starter was trapped in place with the rusty headers, T-bar and cobbled together steering shaft. There is an actual welded in hunk of 3/4" pipe that replaced the coupling when it was converted to manual steering.

*****

Ok, new starter so should be good right? Nope. The starter does not operate with the key. I still have to short across the relay. I put a voltmeter on the yellow wire at the relay and it is only showing 5V in the key start position. Zero V in run position. Jumping from 12V battery directly to start terminal spins the starter and it'll fire up.

My main question is why am I only getting 5V at the start terminal on the relay?

This whole car had been nothing but discovering and fixing one bad thing after another.

 

[Dana67Dart]

5v indicates a high resistance connection in the path from the battery to the starter relay.

Bulkhead connections, ignition switch, back to a bulkhead connector to the starter relay.

Another issue is that the wires might be connected but all but one strand of the wires is still intact. With a load on the wire the single strand can't handle it and increases resistance (and gets hot) an ohm meter will show it's got continuity end to end but the wire can't carry the load.

Go to mymopar.com and download your cars Factory Service Manual. It has wiring diagrams and you can trace out the path and check and clean each connection along the way.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Consequently a lot of the interior and unnecessary items in the engine compartment were stripped away, console, heater/AC, sway bar, etc. There are many cut off wires and plugs dangling behind the dash.

I bought an A12 that had been a race car for about 40 years when I got it. It was probably a lot like you describe. Not my best purchase idea.

Does your car still have the start wire running through the bulkhead connector? I'd start there.

 

[Garrett Ellison]

The bulkhead connector is usually the larger part of it, but also check the master plug connections of the steering column and the key switch, too. Love the car, though, and I couldn't have resisted it either!

 

[toolmanmike]

5v indicates a high resistance connection in the path from the battery to the starter relay.

Bulkhead connections, ignition switch, back to a bulkhead connector to the starter relay.

Another issue is that the wires might be connected but all but one strand of the wires is still intact. With a load on the wire the single strand can't handle it and increases resistance (and gets hot) an ohm meter will show it's got continuity end to end but the wire can't carry the load.

Go to mymopar.com and download your cars Factory Service Manual. It has wiring diagrams and you can trace out the path and check and clean each connection along the way.

It passes voltage but doesn't handle current well.

 

[67Dart273]

Run over to MyMopar.com and download a service manual. Some years, you have to settle for Plymouth vs Dodge and vice versa.

The main points of voltage drop, assuming your ignition switch IS GETTING good full voltage, and it might not be, is the ignition switch contacts themselves, the harness connector at the switch, and the (as mentioned) feed through terminal at the bulkhead connector.

 

[Bewy]

If auto trans, could be neutral sw, bad or needs adjusting. Not sure if man trans car had a N switch.

 

[67Dart273]

NO. He said he measured the yellow and the voltage is low. That eliminates the neutral switch, which is on the ground leg of the relay. In fact, if the switch circuit was open, the voltage at the yellow would be higher, because it would not have a load to cause a drop

 

[KosmicKuda]

Thanks for all the replies!

I have a pile of FSMs including both Dodge and Plymouth for 69. I actuallly copied the wiring diagrams and keep them in the car.

I think what I need to do is check voltages at all the connection points. Or maybe jumper across each connection until I find the bad one. I already disassembled and cleaned the bulkhead connector but I'll revisit that.

I've had the starter switch out of the car and confirmed continuity with a meter. I don't know if there's a voltage drop at the start terminal on the switch but I'll check that. Also I can borrow the switch from my 69 cuda.

I wired in a separate push button switch from the start terminal on the relay to the switched side of the fuse box but it made no difference. Also tried a new relay but didn't make a difference.

To make matters worse, there is a Hurst quarter stick basically welded to the floor hump. It's always in the way when doing underdash work. Everything is rough.

 

[67Dart273]

Since you already know the yellow start wire is low V right at the relay, the rest is not complicated.

Check that with the key twisted to start, that you have good battery power right at the key. Then check the yellow leaving the key. If that is good it pretty much has to be the bulkhead connector

If you are unaware, those connectors come apart in sections. Be careful, as the plastic may be brittle from age and engine heat. You can get new terminals as long as the plastic connector body is not AFU

 

[KosmicKuda]

Update.
I drove the car 40 miles to Dragway 42 yesterday for the Mopar only show and race.

First start of the morning I had to screwdriver across the starter relay. Key and secondary PB starter switch didn't work. Then for the rest of the day, 8-10 starts, it acted normally. Meaning it started with the key! It was so weird to start the car without opening the hood. I don't know what to make of it but I'm going to accept it for now. And yeah I know about bulkhead connectors because I've been driving old Mopars since 1969.

Weird things have been happening while working on this car. Almost Christine like things. I really was getting bad vibes. Maybe it's the deceased guy playing tricks. One good thing is the mini starter was in my Valiant and that car is the polar opposite of this heap so it got some transplanted good Karma.

 

[67Dart273]

What have you done for testing? Actual testing? Have you had the bulkhead connector apart? Have you looked at voltage leaving the ignition switch?

unless the wiring has been hacked, or someone installed an alarm, etc, this is a VERY simple circuit

There is a rare possibility that moisture, corrosion, etc may have "eaten" the wire insulation around the relay coil, causing an intermittent short. This might cause the voltage to load down

Instead of jumpering the relay, try this: Remove the yellow wire from the relay and "rig" a temporary wire with a flag terminal. You could either manually jumper it to the battery, or even run it inside the car to a push button, etc. If the relay operates from that reliably, you KNOW it's got to be in the yellow wire circuit. All you have there is the bulkhead connector, the ignition switch connector, and the switch itself

 

[RedFish]

Did this model have a seat belt interlock? Could be a failing shade tree quality bypass there. Wild guess

 

[67Dart273]

Did this model have a seat belt interlock? Could be a failing shade tree quality bypass there. Wild guess

Hi, Red, no this is a 69. That was "74 only" unless a few cars got slopped over into 73 or 75. And true, as I mentioned, if someone has hacked the wiring, anybody's.........