No valve adjustment?

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Ridge911

Ridge911

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I just drove a long ways, then popped my valve cover to do my first slant 6 valve adjustment... and there aren't any adjusters! I heard that later slant 6's did not have any adjustment screws. What gives? My car is a '64. Even if there aren't any adjustments, at least one of the valves is ticking noticeably... what now?View attachment valves.jpg
 
Its definitely the rear most valve (exhaust) that is clicking... it is loose as all hell. How do I tighten this up?

I also need to identify what year this head is from... I have the NGK spark plugs and need to know if I should keep the spark plug washers on, or take them off. It seems clear this is a swapped motor from another car...
 
I haven't kept up on slants, they evidently are hyraulic, so instead of just adjusting it, you have to first ask, ?why?

Is the valve seat starting to burn? is the valve stem wearing? Is the rocker wearing? is the pushrod damaged? Is the lifter wearing or gummed up? Is the cam wearing?
 
If it's the later hydrolic engine, there is no adjustment to make. If you have valve noise, you have something worn out (not surprising with todays' low/no-zinc oils). Most likely cam and lifter but I'd pull the rocker assembly and push rod on the odd chance it's something easy and cheap. The later heads don't use spark plugs with gaskets. They use a tapered seat plug with a 5/8" socket size.
 
Ok, so I will pull the rocker assembly, and then pull out that pushrod and lifter. I will let you guys know what happens in a week or so...
 
I don't think you can pull the lifter without pulling the head.
 
The lifters are oiled through the push rods !! Check to see if the push rod is plugged with stuff . Might want to check all oil passages in pushrods . No oil through the push rods = no oil to lifters . Good luck .
 
Moparhead64 said:
The lifters are oiled through the push rods !! Check to see if the push rod is plugged with stuff . Might want to check all oil passages in pushrods . No oil through the push rods = no oil to lifters . Good luck .
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Really? I thought they oiled up through the lifters to the rockers.
 
The oil comes out at the rockers, down into and through the pushrods, and down to the hydraulic lifters. This is what I observed running the motor with the valve cover off.
 
Cudamark your thinking V8 . The slant 6 had what was referanced in my mopar engine manual as reverse oiling because there was no provision for the needed passages for the oil to travel like the V8's did so they fed the lifters through the pushrods . Ridge 911 it sounds as though the oil of today has claimed ( ruined ) your lifter and possibly the camshaft lobe .....Just a guess though keep us up on the /6 saga !
 
I will give an update soon. My gauges are out being freshened up, and when I get them back, I can get the car running again. I plan on flushing motor, oil change, and check push rod performance. I will pull the rocker arm assembly and make sure the push rod is not bent. After that, I will have to take the car up to a local shop to have the head pulled to check the lifter and camshaft. (i don't have a dedicated garage, so I can't pull it myself).

The car seemed to be running fine, other than the "ticking". What gets me is what appears to be the '60s head retrofitted with the '80s hydraulic lifters.

When you get an older car, you get the work done by all the previous owners, too.
 
Ridge911 said:
I will give an update soon. My gauges are out being freshened up, and when I get them back, I can get the car running again. I plan on flushing motor, oil change, and check push rod performance. I will pull the rocker arm assembly and make sure the push rod is not bent. After that, I will have to take the car up to a local shop to have the head pulled to check the lifter and camshaft. (i don't have a dedicated garage, so I can't pull it myself).

The car seemed to be running fine, other than the "ticking". What gets me is what appears to be the '60s head retrofitted with the '80s hydraulic lifters.

When you get an older car, you get the work done by all the previous owners, too.
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I don't have a garage either, but about the only thing I would let a shop do is remove the intake and exhaust manifold, most shops haven't seen a /6 in 20 years so I doubt many would know what there doing

I do just fine without a garage, I have don't countless engine swaps and tear down's, just have to remember at the end of the day if you don't finish it cover it up so it doesn't get water in it
 
and as far as the plugs go...

plug tubes=early head
no tubes=late head
 
This isn't a Pep Boys or anything. This guy runs a small classic car shop. I talked with him about my car for over an hour today and he was VERY knowledgeable about the slant six. He knew lots of small things about the car and the motor and I didn't even have it up there with me. He runs it by himself and was more than willing to let me tinker with the motor by myself in his shop space. Me being the police didn't hurt either!
 
66plyValiant said:
I do just fine without a garage, I have don't countless engine swaps and tear down's, just have to remember at the end of the day if you don't finish it cover it up so it doesn't get water in it
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I assume you have "done*" countless engine swaps...

Unfortunately for me, I don't live in a complex with a large lot full of empty parking spaces. The car is in a covered (good) community garage (bad) that is very full of cars, so everyone is watching every little thing I do down there. If I spilled a couple drops of oil, I'm sure I would get a scathing email from the HOA before I could put down the cat litter...

That being said, I could probably do a lot of it down there, but the motor has to come out for the upcoming body work anyway, so if this guy can spare a corner of his shop for me, that would be a lot easier for me. Plus, if my wife doesn't see a pulled motor in my "work shop", my life will be easier... Out of sight, out of mind!
 
Sounds like you found a great mechanic, if the price is right, and who would try to jerk over a policeman?

As stated above, if your spark plugs go into removable tubes, you have the earlier head. Easy to see, because there is a rubber gasket around each tube that likes to leak, but a new seal set is ~$2.
If they go into solid holes in the head, you have the later head (~1978?), not all of which had hydraulic lifters (~1980?). The problem is, with that head you can't pull the lifters up thru the pushrod space, so would have to remove the head to change them. Personally, I would prefer a hydraulic setup since regularly adjusting valves is not my idea of fun. Indeed, I converted my 273 to hydraulic. You can at least pull your pushrods and insure they are the later hollow ones with holes for hydraulic lifters, and (as mentioned) your holes aren't clogged.

Thanks everyone for the great explanations of valve train oiling. I wasn't sure how Slants worked. In a related story, when I had my 69 Slant in 1994 I found one cylinder had no compression and was just passing raw gas. As a temp measure (since working away from home), I decided to disable that cylinder, aka the Cadillac 2-4-6-8 method. I just removed the lifters and pushrods. When bragging about my cleverness, a coworker who was old-school hot rod told me that would lose oil pressure with the lifters out. I went back, installed them, with the adjusters backed off and a weak spring to let them move up and down without opening the valves. Now I see that just removing the lifters was OK.
 
A policeman is a good friend to have ... but cross a policeman and you MAY have crossed alot of them . Tickets anyone ? LOL
 
Update!

I did my tune-up today. Oil change (Mobil 10W-30 with K&N oil filter), Spark Plugs (NGK ZFR5N with washers removed), spark plug tube seals, air filter, Distributor cap and rotor button.
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=138010&highlight=#138010

I also did the fuel line modification, replacing the fuel filter with a proper fully metal one.
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15778

So.. the TICKING!

I pulled the rocker assembly, the push rod was straight so I pulled the hydraulic lifter. The head is from ~'64, but has been retrofitted with hydraulic lifters from an '81+. With the rocker assembly off and the spark plug tube removed above that cylinder, I WAS ABLE to remove the hydraulic lifter with a magnet.

The lifter was definitely bad. I replaced it with a new one... but the ticking is still there. I feel it isn't as bad/noisy, but it is definitely still there. On a positive note: the acceleration and idle are much smoother... not necessarily more power, but definitely less stuttering/hesitation. I will be attempting the HEI ignition conversion in the coming weeks, and I'm sure that will help a lot too.

I guess the next step is to pull the camshaft. The bad lifter must have damaged the cam... sigh. Can I pull the camshaft with the motor IN the car?
 
Before going to the hassle of removing the cam, you may want to make use of a dial indicator to check whether the cam lobe at the ticking location is really bad. It could be that there's trash upstream of the lifter (pushrod, rocker, shaft) blocking oil feed to that lifter. How thoroughly did you clean the rockers, shaft, and pushrods before reinstalling?

The "ZOMG, current day oils will ruin your old engine because flat tappets and no zinc!!!" thing is false. It spreads as a result of belief in (and repetition of) misinformation. Yes, one particular extreme-pressure antiwear additive has been reduced in present oils, but it has been replaced by others, and the certification tests for the newest service grades (currently "SN", previously "SM") still include flat-tappet engines with strict limits on allowable wear.

(You might be able to remove the cam with the engine in the car, depending on exactly what car you have and whether removing the radiator and grille provides a clear path. It's going to be a pain in the nuts either way.)
 
I did no cleaning while it was disassembled, only a basic wipe down of where the rockers mount on the head. I will investigate using the dial gauge to check the cam. Thanks, Dan.
 
Welcome. Cannot hurt to pull the rockers and shaft and proceed as described here for a thorough cleanup, including the pushrods if a driveway test with a spray can of carburetor cleaner doesn't reveal them to be fully free and clear.

Also, K&N = poor choice, but that's not causing your issue, it's just causing me to carp about K&N on here.
redbeard.gif
 
If you find a good cam lobe with a bad lifter, that would be a first for me. As Dan mentioned, you should be able to pull the cam if you remove the grille, front bumper, lower valance, and radiator. With the mismatch of parts on your engine, I think I'd make sure the conversion was done properly too. Recheck the push rod length on a good lifter to see if it's in specs and compare it to the bad one.
 
Before you pull the camshaft, you might check for timing chain stretch, so you can have parts ready. Pop the distributor cap and watch the rotor. Insure the key is out or the battery is disconnected. Pull on the fan belt to rotate the crank in the normal direction (cw looking from front, i.e. pull on lower belt and push on upper) to TDC mark. Now, watching the rotor, rotate the engine in reverse direction until you just see the rotor move. Note how far the crank turned on the timing mark. That is the slop in the timing chain (assuming no slop in distributor drive gear).

If >5 deg (very common), I would plan to replace the "timing set" (chain and 2 sprockets). I got a set for my slant on ebay a few weeks ago for <$30 w/ shipping. There is an upscale set right now for ~$130 w/ roller chain and 3 slots so you can set 4 deg advanced for better idle and mileage.

I would stick with the hydraulic setup. A bit less performance, but probably less fuss in the future. No yearly (or more) adjusting of valves. However, the flip side is maybe other issues like plugged oiling, collapsed lifters, or you run out of adjustment. If you change your oil regularly, hydraulic lifters should work fine, and most cars since the 1980's have them. I saw a hydraulic cam w/ lifters go unsold 2 times on ebay at $40 the last month. I see >$100 for the mechanical cam alone.
 
cudamark said:
I think I'd make sure the conversion was done properly too.
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Good idea. I'd especially worry about insufficient oil volume, as would be the case if the necessary modifications weren't made to increase oil flow to the head via the rear cam bearing.
 
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