Maybe not to him but to the rest of us it does.
He should be evaluating toilet seats not cars.
As full of crap as he is I'm sure he has set on many.
Opinions on 71 Demon Clone for sale
- Thread starter MyDadsADemon
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He should be evaluating toilet seats not cars.
As full of crap as he is I'm sure he has set on many.
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
Who's the expert?
The wannabe that says it's a 340 even though it says it's a 360 on the side.
I would say he's a lying shyster not an expert.
MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
The dealer guy gave me the experts name and phone number. Half a mind to publicize in the interest of public safety
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
So they post a picture of casting number on the block that says its a 360 but insist its a 340? So deliberate misrepresentation is what that sounds like.
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MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
I probably should have started this thread with some background, but here's part of the "why" for me tracking down a 71 Demon. My dad grew up on Mopar, and of all the examples he or his buddies had, his favorite was his 71 Demon 340, bucket seats, console shifter, Rallye dash. My goal since I got into cars as a kid was to get one, but it never came to be. 5 years ago, my dad was in non-alcoholic liver failure, and was given months when he got the call for a matched liver. He's doing so well now, and I know better how fragile the time is I have with him. Fast forward to June of this year, I tracked down a nice example of a driver-quality 71 Demon 340 tribute/clone (was a /6). Just look at the guy's face in the picture!
Another fast forward to earlier this week, when I came across a post by a guy looking for his late dad's Demon that was sold in Missouri in 2012. Some of his pictures looked familiar, so I rifled through the pictures I got of the resto by the prior owner and connected with the guy. It's his dad's car. So I'm working with this guy to figure out a way for him to get his Demon back without me being out all the time & money I've poured into this car over the last 6 months. If I can track down a similar-quality 71 340 Demon, the price it takes me to do that is the price I'm charging the other guy to get his Demon back. I gave him a number of $40k, so if he comes up with that it's his either way, but if I find one for less (with taxes & transport), that's my new price.
This is why I'm ok with a tribute/clone/restomod, as long as I'm not starting over with the boatload of miscellany that I'm pretty much done with now on this Demon. Don't want/need a trailer queen, but something that will not be a time suck and will keep that smile on his face. Mine has a purple cam, X heads, Hooker headers, MSD ignition, 3.23 suregrip, 727 console shift, and a driver-quality resto. I've spent enough time under in & around this example to have a good idea of what to look for. Two cool parallel Dad + Demon stories coming together (hence my handle), trying to get to a win-win.
Photos:
Another fast forward to earlier this week, when I came across a post by a guy looking for his late dad's Demon that was sold in Missouri in 2012. Some of his pictures looked familiar, so I rifled through the pictures I got of the resto by the prior owner and connected with the guy. It's his dad's car. So I'm working with this guy to figure out a way for him to get his Demon back without me being out all the time & money I've poured into this car over the last 6 months. If I can track down a similar-quality 71 340 Demon, the price it takes me to do that is the price I'm charging the other guy to get his Demon back. I gave him a number of $40k, so if he comes up with that it's his either way, but if I find one for less (with taxes & transport), that's my new price.
This is why I'm ok with a tribute/clone/restomod, as long as I'm not starting over with the boatload of miscellany that I'm pretty much done with now on this Demon. Don't want/need a trailer queen, but something that will not be a time suck and will keep that smile on his face. Mine has a purple cam, X heads, Hooker headers, MSD ignition, 3.23 suregrip, 727 console shift, and a driver-quality resto. I've spent enough time under in & around this example to have a good idea of what to look for. Two cool parallel Dad + Demon stories coming together (hence my handle), trying to get to a win-win.
Photos:
- The white Demon was my dad's, was originally gray with black hood & stripes (he bought it in '75 and had a friend give it 'Americana' treatment a-la Dart Sport)
- Shiny blue Demon was the day I showed up unannounced at my dad's house
- Older faded blue looking at the front end was from the guy's post looking for his dad's car
- With trunk & hood open is from the prior owner before starting the body work resto
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autoxcuda
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So you recently bought this blue demon and the Mecum 72 340 RR ?
Sounds like both have had lots of issues and $$ spent in getting them right and reliable drivers??
Do you do your own repairs, tune-up, electrical etc? Or have a shop for that?
It’s a nice gesture for the previous owners dad. But given your context and story, you might want to keep what you have.
Sounds like both have had lots of issues and $$ spent in getting them right and reliable drivers??
Do you do your own repairs, tune-up, electrical etc? Or have a shop for that?
It’s a nice gesture for the previous owners dad. But given your context and story, you might want to keep what you have.
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MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
There's a lot of what I call "stupid tax" I've been paying... I'm doing all the work with my dad, that's part of the objective to hang over opposite fenders figuring out stuff, he tells me stories, gets flashbacks of stuff he thought he forgot. There are still some things with the Demon that will be really hard/costly to undo (snorkel scoop, go wing isn't mounted right, some exhaust stuff, 727 is from a '75 D-series) that are tolerable, so with the body of knowledge I've built up I'm open for another go.
Regarding the RR... I was lined up to buy the Demon but someone beat me to it. I made an emotional decision with Mecum Indy, where there were some Demons and this RR, and instead of holding out for a Demon I bid on the RR & won. Wasn't my first choice, and wish I could have that one back. After this, the seller of the Demon called, the sale fell through, so I was able to convince my wife to "temporarily" have 2 cars until the RR sold and bought the Demon.
Many layers to this saga
autoxcuda
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Many people can take one look at that RR and tell it was built to flip and resell. Many corners cut. Lots of issues and tell-tales. Without even seeing in person.
My worry is that your current experience level is not catching these red flags. You’ve already paid the “tax” on this blue demon. And if you take a monetary “trade” you’re gonna pay that tax again on top of that.
There was probably a reason someone backed out of the demon sale.
At least you are starting to know what you have with your Demon. Starting with another one could turn out worse.
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junkyardhero
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you know what an expert is?
some asshole from out of town that nobody knows!
funny thing is, most of the time you wind up knowing more than the "expert"...
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
So the plan is sell the RR, sell the blue Demon back to original owner, and go buy another Demon? The red Demon is out because of 360? And try to avoid any further "stupid tax"? Does that sum it up?
MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
Pretty good summary. I think the red one is out at 40k because of the 360. Could be in play if the price comes down. I happen to be traveling to NYC next week for work, so may pay it a visit on long island.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
It looks like high end restoration in pictures. Older restoration is a plus vs something that was just restored because if it aint bubbling cracking by now it must be good body work. But how cars look in pictures vs how they look in real life, how well it runs/drives, does everything work ect ect ect you never know till you see the car. If already going to the area for work would be fun to see it....
Ddaddy
I'm changing the World... one pixel at a time!
The Demon looks well done and likely worth every bit of $40k in today’s market.
My ‘69 GTS has a replacement Mopar Performance 360 (400 hp) since the original 340 was windowed by a previous owner. It hasn’t diminished the value.
i had it insured through Hagerty for $35k but they informed me that I should increase it to $45k this year based on condition and market prices. Sure, for another $25 per year…I’m in!
A fine car restored car is just that…fine.
My ‘69 has a body that is straight as an arrow, 400 hp, 727 trans, 3.91 sure grip, SS springs, all new steering and suspension including torsion bars, front disc brakes, new wheels and tires (factory steelies and dogdish caps in reserve) and even retains the original carpet and vinyl top.
What do you think it’s worth?
Doesn't matter anyway, its not for sale.
My ‘69 GTS has a replacement Mopar Performance 360 (400 hp) since the original 340 was windowed by a previous owner. It hasn’t diminished the value.
i had it insured through Hagerty for $35k but they informed me that I should increase it to $45k this year based on condition and market prices. Sure, for another $25 per year…I’m in!
A fine car restored car is just that…fine.
My ‘69 has a body that is straight as an arrow, 400 hp, 727 trans, 3.91 sure grip, SS springs, all new steering and suspension including torsion bars, front disc brakes, new wheels and tires (factory steelies and dogdish caps in reserve) and even retains the original carpet and vinyl top.
What do you think it’s worth?
Doesn't matter anyway, its not for sale.
OneOfMany
Well-Known Member
It appears nicely done, but without the Rallye dash it would drive me crazy every time I sat behind the wheel. Unless it was a 72 of course.
It’s a /6 car originally, I honestly don’t think it being a 340 or a 360 matters one single bit as far as the price is concerned. The fact that the consignment dealer is a moron shouldn’t be a surprise, they’re salesmen not car experts.
“Clone” is a word the numbers matching nazi’s use with disdain anyway. The fact that people are splitting hairs to say that car isn’t a “clone” is just ridiculous. Regardless of it having a 340 or a 360, it isn’t a matching numbers car. Whether or call it a “clone” or a “restomod” or a “tribute” doesn’t change what it is.
Visually the only difference between a 340 and a 360 is the casting numbers on the side and the balancer if it doesn’t have a neutral balance crankshaft. Since this one doesn’t seem to have a weighted balancer the “360” on the side is the only external difference. It’s no different than someone with a 416 stroker running 340 badges. It may say 340, but it isn’t, so what?
I think the bigger thing is that a ton of money has been spent on making it look like an OE car, all the way down the the bias plies (or bias ply look a likes). That’s not a car that was set up to be driven frequently, it’s a show car. Which is fine, if that’s what you want. If you want to drive a car a bunch, that’s not the car I’d buy. If you want an original looking show car, it looks like a well done restoration. But the numbers guys will always talk down on it, because all they have in their lives is whether or not something it matching numbers, regardless of how nice the car is.
Personally I think it’s priced a bit high, but it’s in the ballpark. And it’s at a dealer, so that’s not the bottom line sale price anyway.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
A 360 with good compression and good heads is going to be a stronger engine then a 340 due to longer stroke more torque. But 360 doesn't have the fame nostalgia reputation of the early 340s. A lot of people remember 340s out running big blocks earning them the name "baby hemi". The 360 back in the day had lower compression, a lot had 2 barrels single exhaust, and paled in performance in stock form. So even though well built 360s are outstanding engines they do not have the 340 reputation. That said I think the red Demon will be worth less to some buyers not having a real 340. To me I don't see it as any big deal at all.
I think in the bigger picture 340 vs 360 is relatively small item compared to things like paint, fit/finish/integrity of the body, quality of the overall restoration, how well the car runs/drives, interior, electrical, sound/torque/power of engine, steering/brakes ect ect and the car overall.
MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
Went to Long Island to see the car today in person. Being consignment, I was able to meet at the owner's house & go through the car without the dealer involved. Very nice resto, it's got a couple small things, dash has a couple cracks, small tear on back of the bench, some looseness in the headliner/sail panel area. Ran it up his lift to get a close look underneath. I didn't take many pictures since I video called with my dad, & the picture library is comprehensive.
He's not really a Mopar guy, but definitely a motor head, with his Camaro and has a Corvette on order. He built the blown Gremlin with a 401 & wheelie bars. Overall I think I could do a lot worse than find a no-questions-asked buyer for my Demon (that I like, not love), & essentially swap for this. Working out the details & timing for the potential buyer of mine, which would have to happen before this would even be a real option.
He's not really a Mopar guy, but definitely a motor head, with his Camaro and has a Corvette on order. He built the blown Gremlin with a 401 & wheelie bars. Overall I think I could do a lot worse than find a no-questions-asked buyer for my Demon (that I like, not love), & essentially swap for this. Working out the details & timing for the potential buyer of mine, which would have to happen before this would even be a real option.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
Thats a huge advantage to meet the owner especially at their place. Gives you a good idea who owns it, the back ground ect. And seeing in person really helps. Did you hear it run or go for a drive? Whats your dad think?
MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
It was rainy, so no drive, but started it up (cold) and it sounds great. Doesn't have the ECS vapor return line, would probably do the MAD ammeter bypass, get some day 2 wheels/tires, the rest looks great.
Also, Mr Norm used chevy carbs. This doesn't have those. And as mentioned, the air cleaner set up along with the twin hood scoops.
Demon John
Member
I saw a nice White/Black top & interior '71 340 auto #s match for sale in CA. $45K OBO
From what I am seeing, it looks like it is an early car. The stripes have a larger gap to the hood edge and the pin stripe. My car and many other later 71 cars have no pin stripe and stripe closer to the edge. Unless these were done after a restoration.
MyDadsADemon
2nd gen Mopar addict
I've been looking at his build, he had the paint & striping done this year, so any striping is a result of his choices, not original build. It also has a '72 trunk lid, not sure what else would be mismatched as he doesn't have a lot of pictures nor has he responded to my DM other than to say he hasn't sold it.
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