Outrageous overbill by Kanter Automotive

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duelingcudas

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Some time ago I posted a request searching for a 65 Barracuda power steering pump. Unfortuantely, because of the low core value, rebuild cores have been unavailable. Kanter Automotive in Boontown, NJ, said they could sent my pump for rebuild. Having done business with them before, and not knowing the industry, I trusted them to deal with a relaible rebuilder.
The rebuilder sent returned the rebuild pump directly to me, with the invoice.
The invoice, including shipping, was for $146.44. Kanter billed me for $340.75. I spoke directly to Fred Kanter who told me a $194.32 markup was a usual business practice. I expected some markup for their labor and overhead , but not 132%.
I'm warning anyone who will deal with Kanter to do his homework before agreeing to buy.
As an aside, Kanter told me I should not have been sent the invoice. An educated consumer is apparently not their best customer.
 
I would have been telling them they can shove the pump up there A$$ sideways for that price you could buy 3 new ones off ebay or even a used one

why didn't you ask here in parts wanted for a pump? I'm quite sure some members here have a few of them and would part with one, I may have even had one; and with shipping it would still be cheaper!
 
So wait.. let me get this straight.. Kanter didnt actually do anything then right? They took your part and sent it off to someone else to have the work done.. that someone else charged $146.44 to do the work, and Kanter added $194.32... for what exactly?? Holy heck.. I mean I can see charging a little something for doing the minimal leg work here, but as you said, 132% added on seems kind of insane... maybe its just me
 
So you already have the Pump? But haven't paid Kanter yet?? Lol. Sounds free to me.
 
duelingcudas said:
The invoice, including shipping, was for $146.44. Kanter billed me for $340.75. I spoke directly to Fred Kanter who told me a $194.32 markup was a usual business practice. I expected some markup for their labor and overhead , but not 132%.
Click to expand...

i hope you didnt actually buy this thing .....
 
Couple of things that come to my mind. First would the company that rebuilt the pump deal with a retail customer? Do you believe that the company that did the actual rebuild would have done it that cheap for a retail customer? I am sure that they are giving Kanter a price break for being a high volume customer. Businesses are in the business of making money. If you don't like the price then don't have the work done. If you never saw the invoice from the rebuilder would you be happy with the product?
~Michael
 
Here we go again-I'm sure that you read that Kanter deals in-obsolete parts? Actual parts to rebuild this pump-without any machine work-is 23.79 plus tax.You could have saved yourself a wad of money by doing it yourself! Oh- you can't rebuild it yourself? And if you do who is going to guarantee it?I'm sure that you had an idea of the cost before you sent your pump,if not WOW!!!I have dealt with Kanter and they are straight up with their prices.Like someone else said-you could have bought a couple of used ones and taken your chances with those.
 
SOME markup has to be expected, just for handling. Phone calls, shipping, time, etc, I find this markup insulting.

ON THE OTHER hand, you should have been able to get an estimate of the deal beforehand. I spent 15 years in a previous life in auto parts, and we used to do this sort of thing all the time.

We used to send out all kinds of oddball stuff, from brake boosters to cam regrinds, you name it, and we usually VOLUNTEERED an estimate to the customer before any real money, other than shipping and inspection, was performed.
 
Ouch! The 30% mark up I'm getting for my rebuilt air tools isn't enough I guess. No wonder why I'm not making any money. LOL tmm
 
You could just tell Kanter to renegotiate the price, lest you let slip who actually did the work....It's Kanter's dirty little secret at this point.
 
you're not going to like what I think as a professional parts guy.
132% is too low. The number should be somewhere around 166%. That is an industry standard. that # pays bills and allows for a small margin of profit.
keep in mind, that it is not reasonable to expect that you could have gotten the job done cheaper. discounts are given to volume customers. he also bears the burden of warranty of your part and has to live with it if/when it comes back.

I also would have had a chat with who ever shipped your part. I would have done some creative billing since the cat was out of the bag.
 
Wylde1 said:
So now the question remains...... WHO is their rebuilder?



Wylde1.
Click to expand...

I will take a guess Cardone. That is where our local Napa sent some parts I needed to have rebuilt. Rates were reasonable too but of course there was shipping both ways.

A lot of time it isn't what you know but who you know.

Go to www.rockauto.com and look it up. They offer the pump as a send in and rebuild if you car is a 273 and a stock shelf item if it is a /6.
 
gunbunny said:
you're not going to like what I think as a professional parts guy.
132% is too low. The number should be somewhere around 166%. That is an industry standard. that # pays bills and allows for a small margin of profit.
keep in mind, that it is not reasonable to expect that you could have gotten the job done cheaper. discounts are given to volume customers. he also bears the burden of warranty of your part and has to live with it if/when it comes back.

I also would have had a chat with who ever shipped your part. I would have done some creative billing since the cat was out of the bag.
Click to expand...
Actually the industry standard mark up is cost X 1.66 which in this case
Kanter should have charged $243.09 giving him a 40% gross profit. Kanter
roughly market it up cost X 2.32 giving him a 62% gross profit. That's
usually impossible to get on big ticket items, mostly little crap like nuts & bolts and heater hose we can get away with.
 
Wait until you get into mark ups at a repair shop. I have never worked at a shop where mark up on parts was less than 100%. And that is on the low side. There is overhead, accountants, paperwork, bank fees, etc... They are entitled to make money. That is what they are in business for. They will make as much as the market will bear. Hell, I loved when we did breakfasts at my restaurant. Eggs were $.08 and toast was $.05. I could sell a $5.99 breakfast with bacon, eggs, toast and hash browns everyday and my cost was $1.03. Did I feel bad? Hell no. You got what you needed. The time to negotiate price is before the work is done, not after.
 
I see what's most-likely a mistake in billing on the rebuilder's end ... One of the rebuilder's staff (e.g. , their billing department) mistakenly sent the wholesale invoice to you instead of sending said invoice to Kanter's .

Sounds to me like this potential mistake ended up screwing Kanter's and themselves (in future business !).

I know how the game works in subletting work , as I work for a huge auto parts chain . It's common practise to send-out starters , alternators , etc. , etc. , to our suppliers for a remanufacture .
Naturally , we mark the price up , as we not only have to recoup our out-of-pocket expense for the service , but also to make a little off of the sale .

Like the others have said , I too recommend contacting Kanter's again and attempt to set things right .

Just my opinion , what what-ever it's worth :D
 
gunbunny said:
you're not going to like what I think as a professional parts guy.
132% is too low. The number should be somewhere around 166%. That is an industry standard. that # pays bills and allows for a small margin of profit.
keep in mind, that it is not reasonable to expect that you could have gotten the job done cheaper. discounts are given to volume customers. he also bears the burden of warranty of your part and has to live with it if/when it comes back.

I also would have had a chat with who ever shipped your part. I would have done some creative billing since the cat was out of the bag.
Click to expand...

Please refresh my memory about your mark up rate should I inadvertantly want to do business with you. I own and run a shop 30% mark up is my policy. What Kanter charged is strong arm robbery! Of corse as a customer the buyer should have asked for an estimate.
 
gunbunny said:
you're not going to like what I think as a professional parts guy.
132% is too low. The number should be somewhere around 166%. That is an industry standard. that # pays bills and allows for a small margin of profit.
keep in mind, that it is not reasonable to expect that you could have gotten the job done cheaper. discounts are given to volume customers. he also bears the burden of warranty of your part and has to live with it if/when it comes back.

I also would have had a chat with who ever shipped your part. I would have done some creative billing since the cat was out of the bag.
Click to expand...


so being a parts specialist, does that mean you would pay the crazy price of $340 for a power steering pump? be different if it was very rare but being an A body pump I doubt it is (maybe to most part places) but ebay and such they can be had without much hassle
 
duelingcudas said:
Some time ago I posted a request searching for a 65 Barracuda power steering pump. Unfortuantely, because of the low core value, rebuild cores have been unavailable. Kanter Automotive in Boontown, NJ, said they could sent my pump for rebuild. Having done business with them before, and not knowing the industry, I trusted them to deal with a relaible rebuilder.
The rebuilder sent returned the rebuild pump directly to me, with the invoice.
The invoice, including shipping, was for $146.44. Kanter billed me for $340.75. I spoke directly to Fred Kanter who told me a $194.32 markup was a usual business practice. I expected some markup for their labor and overhead , but not 132%.
I'm warning anyone who will deal with Kanter to do his homework before agreeing to buy.
As an aside, Kanter told me I should not have been sent the invoice. An educated consumer is apparently not their best customer.
Click to expand...

This year marks our 52nd year in business providing quality service, parts and a lifetime limited warranty to the collector car industry.

Regarding, Mr.Ron Weinger (DuelingCudas) of Berkely Heights, NJ issue. We do take seriously all situations where a customer feels they may have been mistreated. We do understand that each and everyone is allowed to post their opinions on a product or service on the internet freely for others to view (or on multiple forums/blog as was done in his case).But it is incumbent on all parties to post all of the relevant facts.

8/7/12. Mr. Weinger called into our sales staff for an estimate ($225) on the rebuild of his power steering pump.

8/24/12. Mr. Weinger came in and worked with Mr. Kanter, wrote up the work order for the rebuild, APPROVED and paid in advanced as this is company policy.

9/12/12. After further examination of the unit Customer Service called Mr. Weinger to inform him of additional repairs that were needed. Mr. Weinger was given the opportunity of not proceeding and receiving a full refund and declined; he APPROVED the additional charge of $100.

9/24/12.Customer Service received a call from Mr. Weinger. Very upset because he felt he was overcharged because he received our invoice from the rebuilder with his unit by mistake.

9/24/12.Customer Service explained to Mr. Weinger of the mistake of receiving our bill from the rebuilder with his unit. The markup was derived was from industry standards. At that point he was very upset and threatened a lawsuit, phone call to the better business bureau, and multiple posts on the internet. If we would not lower the price and give him a refund.

As numerous posters said, our markups are within the industry norms. We dealt with Mr. Weinger honestly and directly and he had the choice to proceed or cancel several times. Of the 100,000 customers we deal with each year there are one or two like Mr. Weinger.

Thank You
Kanter Auto Products Customer Service
[Phone Number and eMail deleted by Staff]
 
thats great and all, but that is absolutely ridiculous to charge that kind of money for a power steering pump...i could buy 8 pumps for 350 bucks.
at any rate....if a customer agrees to pay , it is what it is...
 
For the record, I got my chuck from Firm Feel and it was top notch. I don't know that I would feel confident sending one anywhere else...
 
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