Over the Counter Zinc Additive

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mopowers

mopowers

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Do you folks know of a good over the counter ZDDP oil additive that is likely to be on the shelf at a local auto parts store?
 
Last edited:
cuda620 said:
Valveoline ZR1 is high zinc.
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I use Valvoline VR1 10W30 (silver bottle) conventional oil in my 318 (also comes in 10W40) that already has the correct amt. of zinc and phosphorus in it. It's great stuff and I have been using it for many years with no problems. I would stick with oil formulated at the factory rather than adding stuff in... just my .02 318MG
 
lucas zppd zinc additive should be easy to find at any parts store! lucas also sales muscle car oil with high zinc zddp in it already as well
 
If you just have to have an additive, Lucas is among the best. O'Reilly carries it. Unlike a lot of "zinc" additives, Lucas actually HAS zinc and phosphorous in it.
 
Thanks for the input guys. I'm aware of plenty of good oils with zinc in it. Unfortunately, my dad is set in his ways and already has a bunch of cheap oil he insists on using. I don't blame him. That's why I asked for a locally purchase-able additive he can obtain at his parts house. Looks like the Rislone and the Lucas additive is available at autozone and Oreilly. I'll pass along the info. Thanks again.
 
If your dad chooses the Lucas additive, it looks like 1/4 of a bottle (4 oz) is quite adequate to raise the ZDDP levels to the 1200-1400 ppm range or thereabouts, which is the ZDDP concentration range where most motor oils used be. Too much ZDDP has been documented to cause its own set of issues; the whole Lucas bottle will raise it to around 5000 ppm per the Lucas documents, and that is way too high.
 
nm9stheham said:
If your dad chooses the Lucas additive, it looks like 1/4 of a bottle (4 oz) is quite adequate to raise the ZDDP levels to the 1200-1400 ppm range or thereabouts, which is the ZDDP concentration range where most motor oils used be. Too much ZDDP has been documented to cause its own set of issues; the whole Lucas bottle will raise it to around 5000 ppm per the Lucas documents, and that is way too high.
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Doesn't the Lucas ZDDP tell you to use the whole bottle with 5 quarts?
 
Dartish said:
Doesn't the Lucas ZDDP tell you to use the whole bottle with 5 quarts?
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Yes it does. BUT, their data sheet says it will raise the ZDDP levels up to around 5000-5200 PPM. That is 3-4 times the ZDDP levels in the oils prior to the ZDDP reductions.
- Typical old levels were in the 1500 PPM range. That got reduced to 1100-1300 PPM range in the 90's and issues were not showing up with cams.
- New levels on the oil weights 30W and lower are now in the 600-800 PPM range, starting around 2005 or 2006 and THAT is when the issues cropped up.
- If you add the whole Lucas bottle to a newer oil and raise the ZDDP level to 5000-5200 PPM, then you have raised ZDDP levels by 7 to 1, but you only need to go up by 2 to 1. You have increased ZDDP levels by around 4000-4400 PPM.
- If you add 1/4 of a bottle, then you have added about 1000 PPM to the ZDDP levels, putting the final level up in the 1600-1800 PPM range, which is higher than the old old standard.
- Excess ZDDP has shown issues in studies going back as far as the 1970's. Here is just one link that can be found describing issues; others can be found by Googling 'excess ZDDP additive problems'.

How much Zinc and Phosphorus is too much,? | Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs | Bob Is The Oil Guy
 
nm9stheham said:
Yes it does. BUT, their data sheet says it will raise the ZDDP levels up to around 5000-5200 PPM. That is 3-4 times the ZDDP levels in the oils prior to the ZDDP reductions.
- Typical old levels were in the 1500 PPM range. That got reduced to 1100-1300 PPM range in the 90's and issues were not showing up with cams.
- New levels on the oil weights 30W and lower are now in the 600-800 PPM range, starting around 2005 or 2006 and THAT is when the issues cropped up.
- If you add the whole Lucas bottle to a newer oil and raise the ZDDP level to 5000-5200 PPM, then you have raised ZDDP levels by 7 to 1, but you only need to go up by 2 to 1. You have increased ZDDP levels by around 4000-4400 PPM.
- If you add 1/4 of a bottle, then you have added about 1000 PPM to the ZDDP levels, putting the final level up in the 1600-1800 PPM range, which is higher than the old old standard.
- Excess ZDDP has shown issues in studies going back as far as the 1970's. Here is just one link that can be found describing issues; others can be found by Googling 'excess ZDDP additive problems'.

How much Zinc and Phosphorus is too much,? | Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs | Bob Is The Oil Guy
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Good info there sir!!!! Thanks!
 
Just to clarify things... the phosphorus is the element that inhibits wear and the zinc is actually used as the carrier... when you see 'zinc' it means there's also phosphorus at work.
 
nm9stheham said:
Yes it does. BUT, their data sheet says it will raise the ZDDP levels up to around 5000-5200 PPM. That is 3-4 times the ZDDP levels in the oils prior to the ZDDP reductions.
- Typical old levels were in the 1500 PPM range. That got reduced to 1100-1300 PPM range in the 90's and issues were not showing up with cams.
- New levels on the oil weights 30W and lower are now in the 600-800 PPM range, starting around 2005 or 2006 and THAT is when the issues cropped up.
- If you add the whole Lucas bottle to a newer oil and raise the ZDDP level to 5000-5200 PPM, then you have raised ZDDP levels by 7 to 1, but you only need to go up by 2 to 1. You have increased ZDDP levels by around 4000-4400 PPM.
- If you add 1/4 of a bottle, then you have added about 1000 PPM to the ZDDP levels, putting the final level up in the 1600-1800 PPM range, which is higher than the old old standard.
- Excess ZDDP has shown issues in studies going back as far as the 1970's. Here is just one link that can be found describing issues; others can be found by Googling 'excess ZDDP additive problems'.

How much Zinc and Phosphorus is too much,? | Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO) - Gasoline Cars/Pickups/Vans/SUVs | Bob Is The Oil Guy
Click to expand...
Great post, sir. I didn't even bother to read the link, you said it well enough yourself
 
Well, I wondered why you were using half a bottle and it now makes sense. And I found that slantsixdan made the same analysis of the Lucas additive many years ago on FABO.

I've been looking for any info that might indicate that adding excess ZDDP additive is necessary to reach the desired levels because of some strange reaction or 'loss' of ZDDP, but I have not found anything so far.

ZDDP can decompose but it takes temps up in the 150C range or higher. One thing that did come up is the if the ZDDP decomposes, one byproduct is hydrogen disulfide, which is the rotten egg smell. So if you ZDDP additive smells like rotten eggs, maybe it set in a hot truck trailer for a few days. I'd toss it.

Uh-oh... now we'll have all sorts of car guys hospitalized for 'ZDDP sniffing'... LOL
 
What do you all think of Brad Penn oil any good? Just bought a case of 12. 30 weight straight is what it is. Not the break in buy their high performance oil.:popcorn:
 
It's the old Kendall Oil refinery.... IIRC, it had a mediocre reputation back 40 years ago.... I can't say these days. We use the Brad Penn break-in oil, but for regular running, I'd prefer a different brand.... just my personal opinion. The right levels of ZDDP for flat tappet lifters/cams is a key to have, regardless.

If the Brad Penn that you have has the right levels of ZDDP (1100-1500 ppm), then that has one advantage in that you are not putting in another additive that could possibly work against the additive package already in the oil from the refinery.
 
brad penn oil is very respected oil in the circle track racing world for high hp flat tappet motors, thought to be as good as joe gibbs oil...both way over priced for every day use in my opinion!
 
Oh ok. I just bought a 12 case because i found it for 79.99. Thats 6.66 a quart not bad. I also had a discount of 15 or 20% off for frequent purchases! So that made the deal even sweeter!:thumbsup:
 
Check out Schneider Cams Formula 2. I used it in my solid lifter race engine for many years. 1/2 bottle at each oil change. Worked great, ran the same cam/lifters for 3 seasons of 7500+ RPM with no wear. Also, I've had several local engine builders (Southeast Virginia) tell me not to use Valvoline VR1 unless I also use an additive.
 
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