I think people can preserve a car , in most cases without a welder , and without sticking more money in the car than it is worth. A do-it-yourselfer that will always have other priorities and responsibilities, such as a wife/husband and kids for example, does not have to let their car deteriate because it would cost 40 thousand to do it the " right " way. They can get it looking nice and drive it for many years or they can watch it rot away because they took the advice of someone that thinks there is only one way that is worthy of their time and money.
Overpriced fish?
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I think people can preserve a car , in most cases without a welder , and without sticking more money in the car than it is worth. A do-it-yourselfer that will always have other priorities and responsibilities, such as a wife/husband and kids for example, does not have to let their car deteriate because it would cost 40 thousand to do it the " right " way. They can get it looking nice and drive it for many years or they can watch it rot away because they took the advice of someone that thinks there is only one way that is worthy of their time and money.
The closer you look the more you see wrong. I will agree it is not worth top dollar. I am thinking more in the $15,000 range if that.
It's not just the early As either. Frankly I'm a bit shocked at what a smog controlled beaked model brings today.
Wife and I were watching a old episode of Counting Cars yesterday. She commented about the dollar figures stated. I reminded her that the ep was filmed in 2012.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Gotta love the "get it wet and take photos" approach. Not sure about others, but that alone is a huge pet peeve of mine.
Grade A milk and Grade A eggs are up in price too..... it's amazing what 15 years does to pricing
Seriously, though, the price of classic cars keep rising because the dollar is worth less. That alone drives the price up. Then, how the market looks and swings at these classics also determines it...
As for the car in question here, I call it a very nice driver quality (if the underneath is solid and all the mechanics are solid which he claims both in the add). Much more good than bad. Price should reflect that market on this car, whatever that may be. Probably not up towards the "20ish" pricing, maybe mid teens ?? I'm not great on early A's so take that for what it is
dano
Evil Handy Man
Looks 1000 times nicer than the Black 63 Nova 6cly someone in Damascus wants $20k for. As other have said, put some eyes on it in person to really know.
autoxcuda
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And that paint seems sorta dull on top surfaces? Maybe just not shined up. But if it doesn't look that way wet, what does it look like dry? Silver can fade.
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early A's are weird man. to me, they're very hard to comp because of the uniqueness year to year makes for people that are firmly entrenched with specifics. somebody will like a 65 dart but you couldn't force a 64 or 66 on them that was nicer for a better price come hell or high water.
there doesn't really seem to be much of a break between something of a hot rod-- say a 340 4spd car, against a 273 automatic car and the price point between a V8 and /6 isn't a wide as it is on the later cars. it seems that they need to be extremely well done, nicely appointed and executed at a high level to get mid 20's money, otherwise really nice cars seem to bring about mid teens to 20ish kind of dough.
mopar head
DoD nuisance Alien/Squatch extermination team
Yeah man we can nit pick peoples rides to death, ALL of them.
Dartsun
Mopar Dude
I love the early As but you are right I've got a 65 and love it. I'd take a 64 but not so much the 66, just don't like the dash much on the 66s, talking darts.
autoxcuda
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This isn't a car at the local Car show to pick on. This could be the buyers future ride.
The idea is to get clues ahead of time to know were to focus with a personal inspection.
And with any used car purchase, the buyer has to have some faith. You can't inspect every bearing surface or inside other sealed things. You need to have some clues of how things were build that you can see to make estimates on what you can't.
On that F-body shift handle. Not really a big deal in the scheme of things, but you might want to try to get a picture of the reverse level orientation to see if it's an overdrive trans. Or if you feel odd gap between gears, that might be the OD.
Dartswinger70
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The white knob on the shifter is nice...
autoxcuda
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The white knob on the shifter is nice...
I believe 64-65 A-body 4-speeds got white ball with their 4 speed hurst shifters. This is more of a light modified car anyways.
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You can absolutely preserve and even improve a car without necessarily putting more money into it than it's worth (although, that's an easy mark to fly right by even for a home build). I'm a do-it-yourselfer with a full time job, wife, and family too. I drive my car most of the year and deal with all kinds of show-pony restoration purist types that don't understand what I do. I enjoy driving my car, and I couldn't give a rip if other people don't like that it's not perfectly painted and polished. On that we agree.
That said, anyone that puts fiberglass over metal is not preserving their car. They are deteriorating it FASTER than if they did nothing at all. Fiberglass + metal = hack job. There is no right way to do it, and it's worse than doing nothing at all. I've fixed the aftermath too many times. They make antenna plugs, that would be a perfectly acceptable way to deal with that issue without being able to weld.
Knocking in and fiberglassing that hole means the next guy is probably gonna have to buy a new fender, because now the repair is going to be substantially larger and require more skill than it would have before. That's not preserving, that's passing a **** sandwich down the line.
" That said, anyone that puts fiberglass over metal is not preserving their car. They are deteriorating it FASTER than if they did nothing at all. "
I don't agree at all. I talked about filling 2 holes on top of the rear quarters ( where CB antennas were mounted ) and a small hole in the top of a front fender . All are small and the fiberglass does not go over a large area . If these areas are treated from underneath to keep any moistue from entering, just as they are treated topside, although not as smoothly , they will last a long time .
There is a difference in spreading and tapering fiberglass over a larger area vs filling a small hole . Sure replacing metal would be better but would not be a wise investment in a lot of cases and for a lot of people. Just an excuse to let their car sit and rot because they think they have to do it the " right " way or do nothing at all.
Doing what I said is certainly better than doing nothing at all and letting rain pour into those areas from the outside , as you claim to be the better option, is so ridiculous I can't believe you would suggest someone do that rather than what I offered. Once again , people can preserve their cars and keep from watching them deteriate without thinking there is only one way to do things.
I will also add that if a person believes that fiberglass should not be used over metal, what would your excuse be to not use it over a bonding primer or other material that would be applied first over those areas first ? Then you would not be putting it over metal but over a different material.
I wouldn't call somebody's car that they actually got out and worked on in way they could afford to , without making excuses and doing nothing , a **** sandwich , but you be you and I'll continue to promote alternatives that I feel if done properly according to that alternative, can let them enjoy their car .
66Dvert
Working on my custom car parts again!
little high for sure, needs dash pad 400 ish closer to 5 anf that's not at just dashes either or it'll be higher, door panels 600 closer to 7 , headliner (not even going to try to put that shrunken piece back up since it won't fit correctly anyways) bezels look poor another 1k for all the bezel work to get redone front and rear bumpers are a good core but about 500 a piece at the cheapest shop like Bumper boyz. not tri city plating which can easily cost double that but last 20 years or more. sooooooo 400+ 600+ 1000+ 1000 on that asking price,,, yeah a lot high and the front seats look a little crispy probably cotton stitching going away for another 2k/ but if you have to have it then being underwater to make it look as good as it should is okay but not for me. I'd think about it if it was a 66 or 67-9 convertible. fastback? not so much and no not at the asking price even of it was a 66-67-9 convertible I never try to pay asking price. and before you ask I drive daily this beast just wish i coukld get the Damned AC working with that 6 pack setup
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I know you're not actually reading what I'm saying and comprehending it, but what the hell. There is no proper way to use fiberglass resin and bondo to cover a hole in steel. NONE. I don't care how you did it, it was wrong and it will fail.
And your argument about preservation is horseshit. Complete, worthless, horseshit. Wanna know why?
Because you have to paint your fiberglass repair. That cuts the legs out from under any point you're trying to make.
If you have to paint the fender anyway, there's no reason you can't weld it up or have it welded up. The only good argument against welding up the hole properly is that paint and bodywork cost a fortune and welding on the fender means painting it. Simple as that. But you have to paint your fiberglass repair too. And since you'll never properly bond your fiberglass resin and bondo abortion to the fender, it will fail. And since you banged in the edges of the hole to get that abortion to stick, you stretched the metal, making the proper metal repair even harder to accomplish.
The only reason to fiberglass over an antenna hole and then paint over that is to pass it off to someone else that doesn't know the complete abortion of bodywork they're inheriting. Fiberglass over metal is a cheap flipper trick for scam artists.
If you wanted to remove the antenna and plug the hole, well, they actually make antenna plugs for that with a rubber seal that will keep the water out. The antenna is gone and the plugs are pretty low profile, they look fine and do the job, no painting of the fender needed. Cheap and easy. But that's not what you're trying to do. You're trying to pass off horseshit as a proper repair, so you fiberglass and paint, and guarantee that the next person to own that car will have to deal with an even bigger problem that what you started with, because you MADE IT WORSE. That's not preservation.
Your "repair" won't last a long time- it's a cover-up at best and scam at worst. I've seen that horseshit done, and I've personally had to fix crap like that on many occasions. If you don't have the skills to weld in the patch, learn them or take it to someone that has them. And if you don't have the skills to do it right, arguing with someone that does and has seen the aftermath of that BS doesn't make you look better. It makes you look like a lazy POS that would rather take short cuts than learn the skills to do things right.
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I pass right on by those type ads. Totally unscrupulous approach.
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
If it is what you desire, everything works, and it is close to perfect (can't tell from photos), then it is worth that asking price compared to what you would pay to buy a rough fish of that year and have a shop bring it to that standard. Also true if you value your time at even $10/hr, given the hours you might spend searching for rare parts to complete a rough car. But most hobbyists don't value their time and want a challenge. It isn't truly "your car" unless you did almost every resto task yourself, rather just another car you bought. Wouldn't be worth that cost if your intent is to flip it.
I'm quite happy with the results so far and there is a difference in fiberglass repair work. In my younger years I have done some that I would not be proud of . If you have never done a good fiberglass repair you would not know, and if not willing to learn you will not be helpful to anyone that has a need or want to preserve their car without spending a lot of money to do so.
You sound like a one-way thinker and that is fine with me. I have a welder and panels from Laysons for another car so I can relate to that type of repair also.
The other lower quarter on this car is in worse condition but not bad enough to cut out as much metal to use such a panel. I have no intention to try to win you over and you may want to ignore my build as I go into the next area.
While I haven't torn into that area I'm probably going to be going with a steel reinforced fiberglass patch panel , built and installed in place.
You be sure to wear proper gear and be careful when doing whatever repairs you make .
FlamesAreWicked
Well-Known Member
This car only appeals to certain people ultimately. I would be the type that would be interested potentially. If a person wanted that particular year/make/model and planned to add some go fast, this would save you some leg work and headache. I bought my Dart for low teens price wise. Pretty solid car but it was a 318/904/7.25 axle optioned car. Basically it needed all that changed. I swapped it to a 4spd, put a 8 3/4 axle in it, and now I’m taking on getting a 340 together. When I’m done, I probably could of bought a car with all of that done already.. maybe.. GTS 4spd cars pull a decent premium these days. This way I’ll know with 100% certainty of what I have in it. The price of admission was lower this route. I’ve slowly been updating things. I replaced the suspension while I was replacing the rear axle. I didn’t necessarily want a GTS but a small block 4spd with a 8 3/4 axle.
Knowing what I do now after all that. the updated price of $23.5k isn’t unreasonable.. $20k would be better provided it’s not a hack job underneath. 340s aren’t as plentiful to find anymore, the same with the rear axle housings, so that’s food for thought. I’m not a stickler for originality either. It’s cheaper that way lol.
Knowing what I do now after all that. the updated price of $23.5k isn’t unreasonable.. $20k would be better provided it’s not a hack job underneath. 340s aren’t as plentiful to find anymore, the same with the rear axle housings, so that’s food for thought. I’m not a stickler for originality either. It’s cheaper that way lol.
I would also like to add that I would suggest that anyone that has a fear of or dislike for fiberglass to go with a metal boat if ever in the market for one. I know millions of people have fiberglass and they are repaired and painted and spend an enormous time in water .
If a guy ever wants to really know what the market is for any given car, just own that car, offer it for sale, and see WHAT offers you get!!!!
I always tell my wife, that can be critical of my work ..... I did the best I could do with my limitations, that is, money, tools, parts, time, desire and my age thus health!!
And I tell the guy... IF I had spent $10,000 for the body work, $4000 for the bumper chrome, $4000 for the engine build, $1500 for the trans build, etc, etc etc,.. THEN I would assume YOU would find little to nitpick my work... BUT would you pay for such perfection!!!!??????
I always tell my wife, that can be critical of my work
..... I did the best I could do with my limitations, that is, money, tools, parts, time, desire and my age thus health!! And I tell the guy... IF I had spent $10,000 for the body work, $4000 for the bumper chrome, $4000 for the engine build, $1500 for the trans build, etc, etc etc,.. THEN I would assume YOU would find little to nitpick my work... BUT would you pay for such perfection!!!!??????
" It makes you look like a lazy POS that would rather take short cuts than learn the skills to do things right. " ^^^^^^
I did not repair an antenna hole in a fender. I epaired 2 antenna holes on the top of rear quarters. These holes were not on a flat surfuce ,but rather on a curved surface . I would not recommend using a plug as you suggested as I doubt it would seal properly till you took the time to make an expensive, time consuming and impractical repair.
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