Putting a new cam in my 360

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Use the assembly lube. Coat it. Thick. Run at varying rpms at 2000+ for at least 20 minutes. Don't just leave it at exactly 2000. Move it around. Gotta mate those lifters.
 
Lustle said:
Use the assembly lube. Coat it. Thick. Run at varying rpms at 2000+ for at least 20 minutes. Don't just leave it at exactly 2000. Move it around. Gotta mate those lifters.
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Thanks for that. RPM varied for sure, but the lack of high-viscosity assembly lube is what caused the issue I think.
 
notadart said:
Coated the cam, lifters, etc in the oil additive, made sure there was plenty of oil in the valley, etc. and then primed the system to get things pumping before firing, then running at 2k rpm for about 20 minutes.

It sounds like I was lax on the break-in procedure.
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It sounds like you covered the bases, just didn't use the assembly lube to slick it up until the oil got to it.

Varying the RPM's like Lustle referred to is best.
 
I was always under the impression that you want to keep RPM ABOVE 2000 for 20 min not held at 2K for 20 min. You are supposed to rev between 2000-4000 changing rpm and revving as the cam is splash oiled from whats slung out between the connecting rods. I have never had problems with FTH cams and was always told never hold RPM steady Perhaps your rod side clearance is too tight? Those push rods were not getting oil, why?
 
notadart said:
Thanks for that. RPM varied for sure, but the lack of high-viscosity assembly lube is what caused the issue I think.
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Absolutely. Imagine how hot a cam gets with no oil at 2000 or more rpm with metal on metal contact. As an example. If the circumference of the lobe is 1.5 inches. Then the lifter traveled 250 FEET on the lobe for just one minute at 2000 rpm. Metal on metal contact. For 250 feet. Not pretty.

You can imagine what that's like.
 
I like Lunati's 268 version better.
 
I know you are past this all but this statement in the 1st post caugth my eye: "Lifters were 'new' but had been sitting for a while." Not sure what this means but possibly sounds like part of the problem.

FWIW: Here is another vote of preference for Lunati. Even moreso for Crane; I feel their overall experience shows in profiles that are easier on engine parts and the lobe/lifter contact pressures.
 
nm9stheham said:
I know you are past this all but this statement in the 1st post caugth my eye: "Lifters were 'new' but had been sitting for a while." Not sure what this means but possibly sounds like part of the problem.

FWIW: Here is another vote of preference for Lunati. Even moreso for Crane; I feel their overall experience shows in profiles that are easier on engine parts and the lobe/lifter contact pressures.
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It was definitely a concern for me that the lifters I got with the cam had clearly been on the shelf for a while. I lubricated them as carefully as I could, but I never popped them open to look for corrosion/etc. Now that I think I've figured out the source of the issue, I'm less worried about the lifters.

I'm looking at the Lunati Voodoo 262/268. Little shorter duration than the Comp and a higher LSA and more lift. Little less lumpy I guess, but might be jumpier at low RPM?
I just don't know if I can get one in a hurry (and I am in a bit of a hurry).
 
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notadart said:
It was definitely a concern for me that the lifters I got with the cam had clearly been on the shelf for a while. I lubricated them as carefully as I could, but I never popped them open to look for corrosion/etc. Now that I think I've figured out the source of the issue, I'm less worried about the lifters.

I'm looking at the Lunati Voodoo 262/268. Little shorter duration than the Comp and a higher LSA and more lift.
I just don't know if I can get one in a hurry (and I am in a bit of a hurry).
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I'm in a repetitive mood today.

First, get a custom cam. WTF? why buy an off the shelf cam? It's the SAME money but you can't order through the summit. Is that it? GDSOAFB!!!

Second, you need to use a DEDICATED cam lube on the LOBES and BOTTOM OF THE LIFTER. Isky makes it, crower makes it, Racer Brown has their own crap, Torco makes a good one. Do NOT use a moly paste from the parts store or summit. It better GD well say cam lube on it.

Third, get a DEDICATED break in oil. I'm partial to Torco stuff and I use it all the time. Some guys think 8 bucks a quart too much for oil but they drop that on some **** in a cup from Starbucks. The Driven stuff is good to. LAT makes a break in oil but again, it ain't cheep. BTW, how is what you are doing going? Are you saving big bucks yet? Sorry for the Ahole sarcasm but it cost 10 times more to do it twice. Do NOT use an oil additive for break in instead of a DEDICATED break in oil. For one thing, it's almost impossible to get zinc homogeneous in an oil by dumping it in the valve cover. Get the right stuff.

Fourth, use the above mentioned break in procedure. Get the damn thing fired up and at 2k and then vary the RPM from time to time. I should have made a video of my last fire up. I don't think the crank rolled twice and it ran. That's with 145 on the seat, 360 over the nose and a double spring.

I hope this never happens to anyone again, but I'd bet it will. You just can't step over donuts to pick up dog turds and not have a shitty outcome.

Keep us posted how it goes.

I HATE COMP.
I HATE OFF THE SHELF CAMS.

I feel better now. Time to pick up the dog poop and mow the lawn.
 
yellow rose said:
I'm in a repetitive mood today.

First, get a custom cam. WTF? why buy an off the shelf cam? It's the SAME money but you can't order through the summit. Is that it? GDSOAFB!!!

Second, you need to use a DEDICATED cam lube on the LOBES and BOTTOM OF THE LIFTER. Isky makes it, crower makes it, Racer Brown has their own crap, Torco makes a good one. Do NOT use a moly paste from the parts store or summit. It better GD well say cam lube on it.

Third, get a DEDICATED break in oil. I'm partial to Torco stuff and I use it all the time. Some guys think 8 bucks a quart too much for oil but they drop that on some **** in a cup from Starbucks. The Driven stuff is good to. LAT makes a break in oil but again, it ain't cheep. BTW, how is what you are doing going? Are you saving big bucks yet? Sorry for the Ahole sarcasm but it cost 10 times more to do it twice. Do NOT use an oil additive for break in instead of a DEDICATED break in oil. For one thing, it's almost impossible to get zinc homogeneous in an oil by dumping it in the valve cover. Get the right stuff.

Fourth, use the above mentioned break in procedure. Get the damn thing fired up and at 2k and then vary the RPM from time to time. I should have made a video of my last fire up. I don't think the crank rolled twice and it ran. That's with 145 on the seat, 360 over the nose and a double spring.

I hope this never happens to anyone again, but I'd bet it will. You just can't step over donuts to pick up dog turds and not have a shitty outcome.

Keep us posted how it goes.

I HATE COMP.
I HATE OFF THE SHELF CAMS.

I feel better now. Time to pick up the dog poop and mow the lawn.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I don't think I have the time or wherewithal to go custom cam. (I live on an island in Canada... custom fab **** isn't easy to get, especially when you're paying 40% extra plus shipping) I'm also just not building an engine at that level. I dig what you're saying, and eventually that's the way I'll go for sure, but I'm building an off-the-shelf level streetable motor in my first hot rod.

I'll find a dedicated lube and a dedicated break-in oil. And use the proper break-in procedure.

Comp is something I can walk into Lordco and expect to have within 2 days. And I hate to say it but that's a huge point in their favor. And let's face it, it won't be as much of a dog as that Enginetech.
 
I went threw a similar situatuin where the lifter were old and the facory lube was locked up in them ,make sure you tear it all the way back down that fine metal can eat a just as fast , might even want a line hone .So check the bearings all the way to the crank . its sucks my first motor lasted 2 1/2 hours the second lasted about 200
and I popped 2 pistons and don't know extent of damage yet . But I am Really hating 360S . when I bought my car I was 17 and I 7k ll day for 25 years never lifted it had an indestructible 340, wich i now regret selling . I pounded that motor . But its been all little stupid stuff that keeps taking it out . $ hard the first time 2nd time its grudge $ your so mad third time , lets just say it better stay together until I'm long gone . So smother it up like ribs on an open fire ,with the grease , I like brad penn for breaking in oil , expensive but good in my opinion .and when its fired up again ,no leaks temps good ,jump in it and drive around town in stop and go traffic for 1/2 hour to break it in good .
1500 to 2500 on the tack 200 max on the temp , best of luck to you , and these guys in here know there Mopars .
you will learn a lot more in here than the 3 know it alls down the road or at the shop . I don't care what I know I always double check it in here . if asked right , there are no stupid questions . I picked a bad week 2 weekends ago
to blow my own motor the second time ,rite when racing and shows are starting . kind of a weard blow -up but seems a little to much timing and had I lifted another 100 feet I may not be in this situation was just a practice run I didn't need to do before it went on the Dyno. The comp 268 cam is very popular when properly installed . any I'm not sures ask here at fabo 99% it will get done right the first time , with all there experiance. GL HAGR1
 
most cam and lifter kits come with a small container of cam/lifter assembly break in lube-the thicker stuff is better, not using some is where U went wrong. and U want to vary rpm from 2000-2500 for 20 minutes, and do not let it idle for any amount of time until it has a few hours of break in run time. go with a cam like a 340 unit-268/276 and .440-.450" lift and 110 l.s.a.
 
notadart said:
Fair enough. I don't think I have the time or wherewithal to go custom cam. (I live on an island in Canada... custom fab **** isn't easy to get, especially when you're paying 40% extra plus shipping) I'm also just not building an engine at that level. I dig what you're saying, and eventually that's the way I'll go for sure, but I'm building an off-the-shelf level streetable motor in my first hot rod.



I'll find a dedicated lube and a dedicated break-in oil. And use the proper break-in procedure.

Comp is something I can walk into Lordco and expect to have within 2 days. And I hate to say it but that's a huge point in their favor. And let's face it, it won't be as much of a dog as that Enginetech.[/QUOTE


Well CRAP, didn't see you are in th great white north, so that makes my rant much less relevant.

In your case, I'd probably get something off the shelf.

Damn I hate that off the shelf crapola, but I'd take a Lunati over a comp any day. In fact, I'd pay for a Lunati before I'd run a FREE comp.

But that's just me.

Now I'm going to go back out and try to tune the untuneable carb.
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notadart said:
It was definitely a concern for me that the lifters I got with the cam had clearly been on the shelf for a while. I lubricated them as carefully as I could, but I never popped them open to look for corrosion/etc. Now that I think I've figured out the source of the issue, I'm less worried about the lifters.

I'm looking at the Lunati Voodoo 262/268. Little shorter duration than the Comp and a higher LSA and more lift. Little less lumpy I guess, but might be jumpier at low RPM?
I just don't know if I can get one in a hurry (and I am in a bit of a hurry).
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OK, on the lifters. I did not know what 'old' meant exactly. I agree, probably not any issue here.

With that type of Lunati Voodoo (and I am just guessing which one it is so a PN from you would be nice), I expect it is going to stronger all over. You have a good 9.5 CR (I checked your numbers and got 9.4), so that should make a pretty broad torque curve down low. And the lift is a LOT more, so that will help breathing at the top end. Just be careful on the break-in as these Voodoo's have faster cam lobe ramps, which increases the lifter-to-lobe contact pressures. Make sure you check into your valve spring bind height versus the higher lift, and how close the retainers go to the seals and tops of the valve guides. You have not described your valvetrain parts yet IIRC; that all needs to be right.

Make darned sure that you take the effort to degree the cam!

And reeeeally, reeeeeally make sure the Voodoo skull decals are pasted prominently on the car and post pictures of that....LOL
 
I want a piece of this too.
Here's the thing, the number one thing; You are in too much of a hurry.
Here's number 2,Your combo demands a custom cam. This goes back to post #1.There you detailed your useage. You said something to the effect of; not a DD, street use,Lumpy idle OK, and torque is what you wanted, and 3.55s Wait, here it is;
360 block.
J heads
Flat top pistons
Zero decked
Bored .30
Performer RPM intake
Eddy 600 (was running Holley 650 double pumper, but it was too much)
Shitty headers
3:55's out back
Approx 9.5:1 compression
Intended use: Street, non-daily. Lumpy is good and low-end torque would be great.
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You are gonna need a cam, with an ICA that falls in a very narrow window to provide a low enough Dcr to not get into detonation. But the Scr needs to remain as high as possible, to make bottom end torque, and the lift has to run to the max that your springs will allow before coilbind, yet not so much as to get into the Zero-deck pistons, if you want a decent amount of power, in addition to the torque. What you may not realize is that all these parts need to play nice together, not just physically fit together. If you want an optimized combo, you will need a custom cam.
See; store-bought cams are like cereals. There's all different kinds, and they all go down, But none of those cereals will keep the hungries away like ham and eggs.
The cam your engine deserves will keep you smiling for many years, and it ain't off-the-shelf.If you install a generic, you will never know what you're missing; and you will always be thinking of what couldabin, or what you shouldadone.
 
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"So now I'm looking into other cams. The comp 262XE sounds good. The 268XE sounds better. I'm a little worried about the extra lift (477 vs 462 valve and lobe lift of 318 vs 308) with the zero-deck and flat tops. Am I correct in worrying about that?"

max lift occurs when the piston is way down in the bore...valve to piston clearance is critical during overlap...the exhaust valve is closing and the intake is opening...long duration with alot of overlap will cause problems with valve to piston clearance....the two cams you have listed above because of their relative small duration will not have any clearance problems.....
 
70aarcuda said:
"So now I'm looking into other cams. The comp 262XE sounds good. The 268XE sounds better. I'm a little worried about the extra lift (477 vs 462 valve and lobe lift of 318 vs 308) with the zero-deck and flat tops. Am I correct in worrying about that?"

max lift occurs when the piston is way down in the bore...valve to piston clearance is critical during overlap...the exhaust valve is closing and the intake is opening...long duration with alot of overlap will cause problems with valve to piston clearance....the two cams you have listed above because of their relative small duration will not have any clearance problems.....
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Usually if you stay under .500" lift you are good, but it's always good to check to make sure.... Just get some clay and mock it up....
 
say God or a supercomputer or a panel of gurus comes up with the perfect cam for your combo, it is possible that an off the shelf cam will be equal
 
google shadbolt cams, i think they're in victoria, or colt cams from aldergrove, both do a lot of custom work. dont know of anyone whos used them but they've been in business a long time, i'm sure they could give you numbers of people who have used their services
 
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