Rebuilding a 2008/2010 engine

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4dr4ever

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So I've read as much as I can about rebuilding my engine. I have a 2008 engine that has some damage to the block/pistons, replacing the block with a 2010 block with less then 10,000 kms. Bearings all look great, crank looks great. it is all basically mint.

My question is what should I be replacing? I know general rule of thumb is bearings, rings, timing chain, oil pump but this stuff is all basically new. Can I get away with reusing it? I have new headgaskets, my heads are going for a hot tanking. while those are there I'm going to clean the dirt off the engine block/oil pan with oven cleaner. then I will assemble all the parts bare, primer and paint(hmm hemi orange or something more fun?)

From what I've read I can reuse the head bolts, Reuse the Main bolts? I've read to replace the rod bolts?(what to go with) What about locktight? I will also be painting the transmission to.
 
It would be easier for members to help,if they knew what size engine your working on?Just sayin...;)
 
Bad news. The 2008 and 2010 are to very diffrent motors in 2009 the Hemi changed to variable timing. And 2008 and 2010 heads are diffrent the cam is diffrent the accessories are diffrent, timing chain covers are diffrent, you can physically bolt the 2008 heads on but that where it ends the ports, and combustion chambers are completely diffrent. You need to find 03-08 stuff or keep the 2010 block and find everything else that's 2009-2012. You can make the 08 heads work but it will take alot of reworking, but none of the other stuff will work. It's all up to you.
 
Now that is assuming your talking about the 5.7 I not sure on the 6.1 you would have to look at it. I don't know if they changed or not.
 
He could use the 2010 block and internals from either engine, then put the 08 heads, timing cover, and accessories, wouldn't that work for him?
 
03ramit1 said:
Bad news. The 2008 and 2010 are to very diffrent motors in 2009 the Hemi changed to variable timing. And 2008 and 2010 heads are diffrent the cam is diffrent the accessories are diffrent, timing chain covers are diffrent, you can physically bolt the 2008 heads on but that where it ends the ports, and combustion chambers are completely diffrent. You need to find 03-08 stuff or keep the 2010 block and find everything else that's 2009-2012. You can make the 08 heads work but it will take alot of reworking, but none of the other stuff will work. It's all up to you.
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Actually alot will work. they are very much the same motor. the 2010 heads arn't all that different from the 2008 heads bigger ports, combustion chambers are basically identical. honestly other then a slightly different air flow I could probably have my heads decked and they'd work like the 09+

The 2010 block had mounting bosses for the VVT timing components that the 08 doesn't. and the water temperature plug goes out the back of the block instead of the front like the 08. minor differences

I had the 2010 all assembled but I stripped it apart to inspect and clean the components.

Also anyone know heir theirs a special deep socket for the one main bolt that supports the windage tray?it's goofy long with a bulb kinda shape at the end that my deep ssockets won't fit over.
 
03ramit1 said:
Ok man go for it. Sorry for interfering, you got it all worked out.
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Oh your not interfering at all. Trust me I was worried it wouldn't be compatible at all which is why I tore it down. the only thing I might not be able to use is the timing cover but since I don't have any accessories anyways that's really a moot point(Have yet to buy an alternator, starter or power-steering pump) I think very little has actually been done to the 2009+ heads other then maybe shaving them for a smaller combustion chamber as the 2010 pistons have a significantly smaller raised area then the 2008. also the 2008 has a compression ratio of 9.6:1 versus the 2010 at 10.5:1
 
Photos for information.
2010 piston on top 2008 piston on bottom, as you can see their is an obvious dome change
228dd235.jpg


their basically identical dimensionally the same.

The heads most importantly is the compression ratio change 2008 featured 9.6:1 and 2010 featured 10.5:1 this I mostly done with a smaller combustion chamber(easily accomplishable with a head shave) intake flow is better on the 09+ but should be easily gained by a port polish.

Intakes bolt the same. I mean Yes their different but the differences are extremely minor
 
For what it's worth on reusing parts...

I called Stu at Inertia regarding reusing a lot of the bolts and whatnot and this is what I got back. The main and head bolts, while they use an angular torque spec, are reusable and are NOT torque to yield bolts, though I would only reuse them one or two times. Angular torque specs are becoming more common with new parts because it offers a more accurate clamping load. The rod bolts MUST be replaced though, as they are torque to yield and the factory information backs this up.

From my own experience with my rebuild:

The head gaskets could theoretically be reused since they are MLS style, but if the rubber on them gets messed up you should replace them. I put my engine all together with new head gaskets and ended up replacing a head a month or two later and reused the new gasket without any problems, just cleaned it up real good, but I wouldn't reuse a gasket with several thousand miles on it for the price of a new one. I found rings hard to come by for a reasonable price, but since I had the block scuffed to break the glaze I went with new ones and would recommend just replacing them anyway for peace of mind. My rod and main bearings at 60,000 miles still looked brand new and I ended up reusing them with no problems so far (had the car running for almost a year now). I also reused most of the seals because they are O ring style and were still pretty flexible. The oil pump is still the original and for the time being I used the old timing chain, but I was planning on a cam swap some time down the road and was going to replace the timing set at the same time. After several thousand miles and a whole lot of wide open throttle I haven't seen any issues aside from a little more crankcase venting then I would expect, but my rings were gapped pretty big when I got them (bought them "factory fit", but they were on the upper edge of what was recommended). File fit rings might be the better way to go.
 
4dr4ever said:
Intakes bolt the same. I mean Yes their different but the differences are extremely minor
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I disagree. Here is what is the same in an 08 down and the 09 up 5.7:
bore
stroke
crank
rods
main caps
coil packs
rocker arms/shafts
rod and main bearings
oil pan


Different on the 09+:
intake ports and port openings
exhaust ports and port openings
valves
springs
combustion chambers
pistons
intake manifolds
timing covers
block
push rods
lifters
cam
timing chain/sprockets/phaser
chain tensioner
cam
cam bearings
valve covers
exhaust manifolds
oil pump

As you can see, lots of difference. While much of it is interchangeable, that does not mean it will work well or work at all.
For instance, you could put the 09+ or Eagle heads on the 08 short block but you will need longer push rods, 09+ 5.7 or 6.1 style intake manifold and exhaust manifilds, and your compression ratio will be in the 12.5 : 1 range. Obviously no good for pump gas.....
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=137545

Everything Map63Vette said is spot on. And as rapidtransitric noted the rod bolts need to be replaced.

Good luck with your build and dont hesitate to ask if you have any questions

C
 
Woohoo race gas lol

Interesting I had no idea on the tooth difference on the crank. I have an 09 harness and computer I will be using with the 2010 block
 
You will find lots of interresting and frustrating complications in attempting to use the 09+ computer...

What chassis do you plan on installing that engine in anyhow?
 
Cevidicus said:
You will find lots of interresting and frustrating complications in attempting to use the 09+ computer...

What chassis do you plan on installing that engine in anyhow?
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Like what kind of problems seems like its pretty much the same as the older computers.

I'm putting the whole factory harness in a 1981 dodge crew cab truck
 
4dr4ever said:
Like what kind of problems seems like its pretty much the same as the older computers.

I'm putting the whole factory harness in a 1981 dodge crew cab truck
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Sounds like a cool project.

I have found that the 09+ pcm is very different than previous versions. It is tied into the entire vehicles systems and requires a FCM(forward control module) plus noboy can really tune those pcm's yet. I have heard of BG using a challenger 5.7 6-speed pcm and fcms to retrofit this engine in stock form into jeeps but have heard of no one using a truck or other pcm...

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=137545 Check out posts number 1 & 3.

I have been researching this topic for over 2 years and have found that there are not yet any simple or easy solutions to managing the 09 to current 5.7 'Eagle' with a factory computer.

Im not at all trying to discourage you. I hope you can find a way to make it work. But, it will not be a simple matter of plugging it up and rolling down the road. If it was, I would be driving mine.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Cevidicus
 
Cevidicus said:
Sounds like a cool project.

I have found that the 09+ pcm is very different than previous versions. It is tied into the entire vehicles systems and requires a FCM(forward control module) plus noboy can really tune those pcm's yet. I have heard of BG using a challenger 5.7 6-speed pcm and fcms to retrofit this engine in stock form into jeeps but have heard of no one using a truck or other pcm...

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=137545 Check out posts number 1 & 3.

I have been researching this topic for over 2 years and have found that there are not yet any simple or easy solutions to managing the 09 to current 5.7 'Eagle' with a factory computer.

Im not at all trying to discourage you. I hope you can find a way to make it work. But, it will not be a simple matter of plugging it up and rolling down the road. If it was, I would be driving mine.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

Cevidicus
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Honestly, the truck I got the 09 harness from I dismantled and did not see any modules I havn't seen in any of the 08 and up.
 
Honestly I disassembled the truck this harness came from and don't remember any modules I've never seen on an 08 and older. but that just from my experience.

at any rate it its that hard I'll just reuse my 08 block and crank with the 10 rods(I have an 08 ecm as well) and use the 2010 crank in a different setup. like I said it's all going in my 81 dodge where that extra 45 hp would be nice but I'm already giving the truck an extra 200hp so good enough
 
4dr4ever said:
Honestly I disassembled the truck this harness came from and don't remember any modules I've never seen on an 08 and older. but that just from my experience.

at any rate it its that hard I'll just reuse my 08 block and crank with the 10 rods(I have an 08 ecm as well) and use the 2010 crank in a different setup. like I said it's all going in my 81 dodge where that extra 45 hp would be nice but I'm already giving the truck an extra 200hp so good enough
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I say use the 08 block, sell the '10 block and use the cash to buy a new cam and valve springs to pick the hp up that you are missing out by using the older style engine. you have some parts that are valuable to somebody there and should be able to get at least enough to buy a good cam.

If you do find a way to run the '10 parts combined with the '08 stuff keep posting as I am sure it would benefit us all.
 
Don't use an "under-drive" pulley without first reading horror stories on Mopar truck sites. Some people have had their toner ring shatter, which is integral to the crankshaft, and they blame that on having installed an under-drive pulley which caused harmonic vibrations.
 
BillGrissom said:
Don't use an "under-drive" pulley without first reading horror stories on Mopar truck sites. Some people have had their toner ring shatter, which is integral to the crankshaft, and they blame that on having installed an under-drive pulley which caused harmonic vibrations.
Click to expand...

any link to that?
 
From a quick google search it appears that the first under-drive pulleys were not true harmonic balancers and thus introduced vibrations that damaged motors. A true balanced underdrive pulley shouldn't cause any problem.

Though, I really would like to see some documentation on the HP increase from an underdrive pulley. All the ads say "Up to" which in reality means, we tweaked the livin snot out of the motor and made this amount of HP, some of which may be due to our pulley.


Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
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