so what is the best balancing method

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I am running American Racing wheels as seen in a lot of my posts. I just pulled all 4 tires off and removed all weights that were on it and cleaned the inside of the rims for my new tires that will be here tomorrow. I found both front tires had a clip on weight on each one of them along with sticky weights. On all 4 wheels I saw where there was some sticky weights there at one time but had come off. The sticky was still there but it separated where the weight was glued to the sticky. So it is not a question of the weights sticking to the back of the rim, they are separating. I have a shop in mind but I am still looking at another one also. Have not made up my mind yet. I asked the one about road force and he told me that it is not as good as people think. I don't know who to believe.
 
Road force balancing and on the car balancing is a total crock and waste of money for these type cars. It would be different if you had a Lambo or some other high end exotic. That's what that type balancing is for. You asked for the best type balancing. The best type is what suits the car at hand and in your case, a good computerized spin dynamic or static is all you need.

A good tire guy can spin them up and recognize problems that need to be addressed such as breaking tires down and turning them on the wheels like I talked about earlier. If a tire spins up on the balancer and the wheel is perfect and the tire runs perfectly with it, you could probably stick it on the car without being balanced and never feel a thing.

It's when you get cars with sensitive suspensions, very low profile sidewalls and very wide wheel widths that can pose some problems. If you're just dying to throw money at something, by all means, go for the road force stuff.

IMO, you don't and never will need it. It's tire balancing for GOD'S SAKE. It's not even worth one page of discussion. Seriously.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Road force balancing and on the car balancing is a total crock and waste of money for these type cars. It would be different if you had a Lambo or some other high end exotic. That's what that type balancing is for. You asked for the best type balancing. The best type is what suits the car at hand and in your case, a good computerized spin dynamic or static is all you need.

A good tire guy can spin them up and recognize problems that need to be addressed such as breaking tires down and turning them on the wheels like I talked about earlier. If a tire spins up on the balancer and the wheel is perfect and the tire runs perfectly with it, you could probably stick it on the car without being balanced and never feel a thing.

It's when you get cars with sensitive suspensions, very low profile sidewalls and very wide wheel widths that can pose some problems. If you're just dying to throw money at something, by all means, go for the road force stuff.


IMO, you don't and never will need it. It's tire balancing for GOD'S SAKE. It's not even worth one page of discussion. Seriously.
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Well put RRR.

Sounds like they were dynamic balanced with the sticky weight as far to the outside as possible.

I did this for years for customers. Sometimes you just had to get the runout gauge and just keep rotating the tire to match high and low. I have used the high speed on car balancers and they are difficult to master. Few left have the skill to use them.

I would have them re-done as before and just make sure the rim is clean and prepped. Use some racers tape (duct tape) to secure the stick on weight. The type of weight matters as well! The high quality weights are thin and wide like seen on Porsche and other high end vehicles.

Drag racers and road racers do this all the time.
 
This is what I like about this site. I really don't know a lot about balancing and stuff like that. I get on here asking questions about what is best as I have had a problem with vibration issues and would like to get this right before I make a 2000 mile trip with these cars and some people say that I need road force balancing and some say I need spin balancing. And now RRR says that if I am dying to throw money at something, go for the road force stuff. I believe a lot of people on this thread has said that road force is the best. so what is it. to someone who has had a problem with balancing who do you believe.
The 2 biggest tire places around me is Tire Discounters and Bob Sumerel Tire co. They both use road force. The guy I have trusted with my car for years does the spin balance and does not use sticky weights anymore because they come apart. So I might just have them mounted and put a quart of antifreeze in each tire and be done with it. lol. At least I used this method for 30 years in my semi and never had a problem. I guess I will have to do more digging as to what is best because right now as it stands on here, its like a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
 
trudysduster said:
This is what I like about this site. I really don't know a lot about balancing and stuff like that. I get on here asking questions about what is best as I have had a problem with vibration issues and would like to get this right before I make a 2000 mile trip with these cars and some people say that I need road force balancing and some say I need spin balancing. And now RRR says that if I am dying to throw money at something, go for the road force stuff. I believe a lot of people on this thread has said that road force is the best. so what is it. to someone who has had a problem with balancing who do you believe.
The 2 biggest tire places around me is Tire Discounters and Bob Sumerel Tire co. They both use road force. The guy I have trusted with my car for years does the spin balance and does not use sticky weights anymore because they come apart. So I might just have them mounted and put a quart of antifreeze in each tire and be done with it. lol. At least I used this method for 30 years in my semi and never had a problem. I guess I will have to do more digging as to what is best because right now as it stands on here, its like a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
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The road force balancing is what I referred to in my post, but it was called something different then as opposed to say 30 years later:D
It IS by far the best, but is not needed on these cars unless you just want a super smooth ride at real high hiway speeds.
The car I did it with was a Fiat 124 Sport that would easily run 125-130 and it made a HUGE difference than just normal balancing. (light, low, fast car)
The only other car I had personal experience with was a 60's Jaguar road race car and after the road force balance we took it over Donner Pass at an average of 140+ mph and it was smooth as glass.

I think this is RRR's point about not needing it on our cars applied to exactly this.
We are not going to be cruising a continuous 140 or more MPH, so why spend the money on it.
 
Sorry...But you are waaaay over thinking this.
Grab rim, put on tire.
Put rim and tire on balance machine.
Balance rim and tire.
Put on car.
Drive.
Its that simple.
Use antifreeze for your radiator.
 
Just like anything in this country any more people just do not care and have accountability.

I would stay away from putting liquid in you tires for more reasons than I could list!

Why would Porsche and many European car companies use stick on's???

When done correctly with attention to detail you will not have issues!

Find the place that will do what you want and they will have a customer for life and you will have piece of mind!

At one time I thought it was beneath me, after I earned my master certification. I learned a valuable lesson back then after taking care of customer much like you. Doing an over the top job of any kind for a customer earned you more satisfaction and repeat customers than you could take care of. Mounting and balancing is always given to the rookie but sometimes required an experienced tech to do it best.

Best of luck!!
 
Keep in mind most antifreeze is combustible. That means it goes BOOM.
 
Johnny Dart, are you serious. grab rim, put on tire, put on balancing machine, balance and put on car and drive. I guess I will look for one of the old bubble balancers. and I bet someone will come back and say..... " really that's all you need ". Sorry to bother you guys with this. I don't know a damn bit more than I did after I posted in post # 1. I will figure this out and make the best decision I can make.
 
Gonna get yelled at but I can't resist!

Help me Rusty!!

It time for a Mydol!!!!!

Find a shop and talk to them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
trudysduster said:
Johnny Dart, are you serious. grab rim, put on tire, put on balancing machine, balance and put on car and drive. I guess I will look for one of the old bubble balancers. and I bet someone will come back and say..... " really that's all you need ". Sorry to bother you guys with this. I don't know a damn bit more than I did after I posted in post # 1. I will figure this out and make the best decision I can make.
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I think you found out a hell of a lot more than you knew to begin with. No need to be an *** to people who were trying to help you. A lot of people typed a lot to try to inform you. Just because you still cannot make up your mind, does not mean you learned nothing. Really, you should be a little more thankful. I think maybe next time I will cruise right on by your threads.
 
RustyRatRod said:
I think you found out a hell of a lot more than you knew to begin with. No need to be an *** to people who were trying to help you. A lot of people typed a lot to try to inform you. Just because you still cannot make up your mind, does not mean you learned nothing. Really, you should be a little more thankful. I think maybe next time I will cruise right on by your threads.
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Plus sometimes we don't have anything better to do than discuss something simple for days. :D
 
Rusty, if you are going to tell me that if I am dying to throw money away by all means go for the road force stuff, maybe you should cruise on by. When a dumb *** like me gets on a forum to try and find out answers and tries to eliminate a problem that I have been chasing for many years gets answers like some I have gotten here, it gets a bit much. I am overthinking it, I am just wanting to throw away money. That is the last thing I want to do. I have spent a lot if you have been following. I just wanted to figure out the best way to say....................I have eliminated tires as a vibration problem. I have eliminated tire balance as a problem. Like I said, I know nothing more now than I did before I asked the question. half says go with road force and probably half says dynamic. from what I have researched, I don't think dynamic puts any tire under road weight bearing conditions. Oh, and by the way. I am very appreciative of all the replies I have received on this.
 
Walmart sells crossman BB's cheap. Think they will fit with the Schader valve out.

Worth a try?

This must be game y'all like to play!

Suckered me! Oh well.
 
trudysduster said:
Johnny Dart, are you serious. grab rim, put on tire, put on balancing machine, balance and put on car and drive. I guess I will look for one of the old bubble balancers. and I bet someone will come back and say..... " really that's all you need ". Sorry to bother you guys with this. I don't know a damn bit more than I did after I posted in post # 1. I will figure this out and make the best decision I can make.
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All im trying to tell you, is any copitent tire person, with a modern tire balancer can have you up and running in minutes.

Put the tire on the rim, balance it, and move on. Yes, its really that simple.

Find a good tire shop that your comfortable with. Tell them what you are doing.
And let them do it.

Not trying to be smart (as everyone else) just trying to help.
 
I agree, with Johnny, a regular spin balancer will do just fine for your situation. Yes Im sure the road force balancers get it almost perfect, but your not in that super critical area such as going 140mph plus, to need it that perfect. Discount Tire, Tires Plus, Walmart, anyone that sells and installs tires can balance them for you.

I do advise against the balls/marbles, liquid in the tires! My brother had a shop balance his tires with those balls and it was fine from a standing straight start. Anytime he went around a corner from a stop the tires where ridiculously out of balance. He would have to pull over on the side of the road and start out straight again.
 
Most wheel balancers are accurate to within a gram or less. One ounce at 60 mph exerts a force of 5 pounds on the heavy side of the tire. One ounce is 28.349 grams or .17 pounds at 60 mph. That's close enough for most everything on the road today. I haven't read every word of this thread but did you spin the wheels on the balancer without the tires. I have a pair of 15x7 small bolt rallys that have runout. All the balancing in the world won't make them smooth.
 
RRR is right on. Try to balance a 16'x16" wheel/ tire combo on a spin balancer. We used a bubble balancer for years for these big puppies. As RRR said, rotate tire on wheel until it's close, then add weight to finish. Stayed on @ 222.62 mph
 
tmm, no, I haven't done that. up until now I didn't know the tires was out until I pulled the wheels off and one of the sticky weights fell on the floor and another was completely missing on the rear and found more missing on the front wheels. I just had them balanced last fall and have not put many miles on them. that's what has me concerned about getting them balanced right and the purpose of this thread.
 
trudysduster said:
tmm, no, I haven't done that. up until now I didn't know the tires was out until I pulled the wheels off and one of the sticky weights fell on the floor and another was completely missing on the rear and found more missing on the front wheels. I just had them balanced last fall and have not put many miles on them. that's what has me concerned about getting them balanced right and the purpose of this thread.
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If the wheels have no lip they must be static balanced with tape weights. The shop should use quality tape weights, buff the wheel to clean it and even use alcohol, thinner, or the like to clean and prep the wheel so the weights will stick. And with all those precautions, the tape weights still may not stick after a year of weather conditions and heat cycles. Duct tape will help but it won't last forever.
 
trudysduster said:
Rusty, if you are going to tell me that if I am dying to throw money away by all means go for the road force stuff, maybe you should cruise on by. When a dumb *** like me gets on a forum to try and find out answers and tries to eliminate a problem that I have been chasing for many years gets answers like some I have gotten here, it gets a bit much. I am overthinking it, I am just wanting to throw away money. That is the last thing I want to do. I have spent a lot if you have been following. I just wanted to figure out the best way to say....................I have eliminated tires as a vibration problem. I have eliminated tire balance as a problem. Like I said, I know nothing more now than I did before I asked the question. half says go with road force and probably half says dynamic. from what I have researched, I don't think dynamic puts any tire under road weight bearing conditions. Oh, and by the way. I am very appreciative of all the replies I have received on this.
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Ok. Let's try to make this as BASIC as possible. How does the vibration sound? Is it high frequency like a heard of pissed off bumble bees? If so, then it's 100% drive train.

Is it low frequency like a flat spot on a tire and you feel it in the seats and steering wheel? THAT is tire and wheel.

Google "Reed Tachometer". If you can find someone with one, borrow it and put it on your dash. If you get a high freq response, drive train. Low freq response, tires. I still have mine. Cost me 900 bucks. I was THAT serious into tire and wheel vibration. I KNOW what I am talkin about here. If you can answer that then we will know what direction to point you.

Answer THAT and we have narrowed it down greatly.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok. Let's try to make this as BASIC as possible. How does the vibration sound? Is it high frequency like a heard of pissed off bumble bees? If so, then it's 100% drive train.

Is it low frequency like a flat spot on a tire and you feel it in the seats and steering wheel? THAT is tire and wheel.

Google "Reed Tachometer". If you can find someone with one, borrow it and put it on your dash. If you get a high freq response, drive train. Low freq response, tires. I still have mine. Cost me 900 bucks. I was THAT serious into tore and wheel vibration. I KNOW what I am talkin about here. If you can answer that then we will know what direction to point you.

Answer THAT and we have narrowed it down greatly.
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That's where the diagnostic tree splits!
 
toolmanmike said:
That's where the diagnostic tree splits!
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Yup. Problem is, it's so frikkin HARD to convince people you know what you're talkin about it almost makes you give up.

I "SHOULD" have given up already.
 
Most tires now days are fairly well balanced. They have markings for run out, and location to place opposite of fill valve. I have balanced wheels, then installed tires myself with good results. I have some inside information on tires because my son is an engineer for a major tire company.
 
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