John Lingenfelter also tested the roller rocker action. his term was "slides" across the valve.
Stainless, Bushed PRW Rocker Arms
- Thread starter Mopar69gts
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cookietruck
Well-Known Member
I posted some pics of the prw rockers oiling passages in another thread. Forget which one though.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
If you calculate the amount the roller rotates, do the math on how many times per second it would have to change directions. Now do the math on the angular momentum involved. Then figure out the load at the roller, and friction at the axle and the roller.
Take all that into account, even with a conservative ramp rate, and it would not be surprising to find the roller doesn't. It simply can't change direction fast enough without just skipping over the part and through the oil. I'm sure it figets around randomly though. Solid lifters would let the roller move about more though. So would some valve loft/float, but that's harder to measure
Take all that into account, even with a conservative ramp rate, and it would not be surprising to find the roller doesn't. It simply can't change direction fast enough without just skipping over the part and through the oil. I'm sure it figets around randomly though. Solid lifters would let the roller move about more though. So would some valve loft/float, but that's harder to measure
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Yes. Search youtube for it. Performance Trends has some valve spring videos that show rockers running on an engine.
I don't need no stinking video, it's been tested by many. and yours truly.
I got the Rocker Arms and Shafts
Back from Rocker Arms Unlimited.
Gary did an Amazing job!
He Re Bushed them with one piece bushings ( they had two separate bushings originally.) cut an oiling groove from the adjuster oil hole, He did not like where PRW put the oil hole for the Roller tip to the Valve tip ( under the arm.)so the original hole is blocked off by the Bushing
He then drilled a new hole on top of the arm so it Will oil the tips.
He had the Shafts Hard Chromed and cut Banana Grooves in them.
It took two worn sets of Rocker Arms to make one Good set due to 10 Roller tips with flat spots.
They look Great!
I installed them today and I started it with the valve covers off I watched all 16 get oil and fed the Rollers perfectly!!
Time will tell, but I'm pretty confident they will last like they should now.
Also some people suggested that Head Studs are larger diameter than Head Bolts and could possibly be a Restiction in the oil passage Bolt hole.
Some will machine a groove in the Stud to compensate for that which makes sense to me, but I thought why not just replace the two Studs with Bolts?
So I was able to buy just two ARP Head Bolts for the Trick Flow Heads.
I figured it can't hurt.
Anyway I'm very appreciative to Mike @ B3RE and Gary @ RAU both of them went Above and Beyond to Help me out!
I Highly Recommend them to anyone looking for Experienced Dedicated Genuine Good guys that know their stuff!!
Thank you, Mike
Back from Rocker Arms Unlimited.
Gary did an Amazing job!
He Re Bushed them with one piece bushings ( they had two separate bushings originally.) cut an oiling groove from the adjuster oil hole, He did not like where PRW put the oil hole for the Roller tip to the Valve tip ( under the arm.)so the original hole is blocked off by the Bushing
He then drilled a new hole on top of the arm so it Will oil the tips.
He had the Shafts Hard Chromed and cut Banana Grooves in them.
It took two worn sets of Rocker Arms to make one Good set due to 10 Roller tips with flat spots.
They look Great!
I installed them today and I started it with the valve covers off I watched all 16 get oil and fed the Rollers perfectly!!
Time will tell, but I'm pretty confident they will last like they should now.
Also some people suggested that Head Studs are larger diameter than Head Bolts and could possibly be a Restiction in the oil passage Bolt hole.
Some will machine a groove in the Stud to compensate for that which makes sense to me, but I thought why not just replace the two Studs with Bolts?
So I was able to buy just two ARP Head Bolts for the Trick Flow Heads.
I figured it can't hurt.
Anyway I'm very appreciative to Mike @ B3RE and Gary @ RAU both of them went Above and Beyond to Help me out!
I Highly Recommend them to anyone looking for Experienced Dedicated Genuine Good guys that know their stuff!!
Thank you, Mike
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
I'm not sure how much just the bushings would cost.
$ 380 was the Total for Everything they did.
I'd give Gary @ RAU a call
530 242 1316
Gary is one sharp dude. Talked with him a good bit.
jos51700
Green Bearing thread connoisseur
I ain't reading ten pages of this, and I'm not sure how I missed this thread to begin with, but I knew those rockers were Chinese as soon as I saw that Times New Roman font on the laser marked part numbers. The chicoms love that font.
It's probably already covered but:
The bushing material should not be oilite. Oilite has limp dick for compressive strength.
And the bushing material is ****. They've used some "it gold color, it bushing material" bullshit in there. Typical China Trash. You bought cheap, and supported communism, too. Sounds like it's working well for you.
I'm still trying to figure out why the hell you'd run stainless for a rocker arm. You afraid it's going to rust? Stainless doesn't have many alloys that have strength on par with carbon steel, and even then it costs more.
Now to submit my know it all answer and see how many people already posted this.
It's probably already covered but:
The bushing material should not be oilite. Oilite has limp dick for compressive strength.
And the bushing material is ****. They've used some "it gold color, it bushing material" bullshit in there. Typical China Trash. You bought cheap, and supported communism, too. Sounds like it's working well for you.
I'm still trying to figure out why the hell you'd run stainless for a rocker arm. You afraid it's going to rust? Stainless doesn't have many alloys that have strength on par with carbon steel, and even then it costs more.
Now to submit my know it all answer and see how many people already posted this.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
I’ll take a stainless rocker over aluminum all day long and twice on Sunday.
Norris made the best W2 rockers out there and they were stainless.
jos51700
Green Bearing thread connoisseur
Stainless over aluminum, sure. Aluminum isn't a street piece at all.
By why stainless instead of steel or ductile iron?
gzig5
Well-Known Member
Ductile is significantly stronger than regular cast iron, and I'd be willing to bet that cast stainless is stronger than ductile for this use case. The information I've found states that cast SS is less brittle and generally more impact resistant than ductile. Maybe the cast stainless it easier to produce than ductile? I know that SS can be investment cast which typically results in closer to near net shape and doesn't require positive draft angles. So there are probably several good reasons why you would pick the stronger material.
Carbon steel [ post #236 ] is too brittle [ a drill bit ] , doesn't like flexing like rocker arms will do, hence s/steel is used..........
China Trash? Not all of it. Eric Weingartner recently compared a Chinese Speedmaster alum head with a US made AFR head & said the SM was a much better casting.....
China Trash? Not all of it. Eric Weingartner recently compared a Chinese Speedmaster alum head with a US made AFR head & said the SM was a much better casting.....
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Ever price steel rockers? Where do you find ductile iron rockers any more? Unless you want to spend a ton on 273 rockers. I do not.
Unreal, Just make the things out of hardwood and be done with it.
Myself, I like the stainless, it's nice an affordable one is offered. and if setup right, reliable.
Myself, I like the stainless, it's nice an affordable one is offered. and if setup right, reliable.
Mine are aluminum but I run smallish (.750-.850) cams on my big blocks. I better knock on wood. I stopped counting the runs on my Harlan Sharp 440-1 rockers at 750 and they were used when I bought them.
I had some questions about Speedmaster 1.6 SS roller rocker fitment on SM aluminum heads. Called and emailed pics to SM last Friday. Still have not heard back. Meanwhile, I reached out to Mike at B3 Racing and he spent quite a bit of time speaking to me on the subject of Mopar engine builds. What a great guy and resource for proper valvetrain geometry especially with mopars. I would highly recommend using his services with your build. I know I will.
Stainless is a moniker for nickel based alloys and there are many types of “stainless” all alloyed differently with various types of other steels and elements. Think railroad track, that is a high nickel alloy, even higher in the 1800’s. Forging dies are high nickel alloys, I have cut a few of them. I’m not going to tell you that stainless is as strong as ductile iron, but with the ribbed design of those rockers it’s a good chance it is.
jos51700
Green Bearing thread connoisseur
As a food-production equipment design engineer, I use stainless daily and I would like to point out that a high-nickel alloy steel is not stainless steel, and that any steel in the 'stainless' family lacks the ability to be case hardened and most cannot be heat treated (which is not necessarily true for high-nickel steel). For mechanical usage, stainless is generally terrible, and I still contend that there is no reason to use it in any mechanical environment that is literally swimming in oil. I spend huge amounts of time designing around the compromises required by stainless steel.
The ribbed design is a structural consideration, not a material consideration, and yes, makes it stronger, but are they adding the rib because it was a good idea, or did they add the rib because of the piss-poor material selection? It's just like Craftsman wrenches; the new ones from China are appreciably thicker around the box-end, and this is due to inferior material.
That said, if the rockers work, they work (which, as purchased, they really don't after very much time), but stainless was a piss poor choice for this application. Typical Chinesium mindset: Shiny is better and many buzzword make product not inferior. Many particles of much strength to bring harmonious operation to your engine!
Now, I have seen Chinese 'stainless' that literally had a sticker on it that said 'stainless', but it turned out to be cast iron that was simply painted silver. So there is a very real possibility OP's rockers might be some other material entirely than what was advertised!
Those came out nice! Gary did a set of 273 rockers for me.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Just a bump to see if there is an update from the OP since the install of the RAU reworked parts.
Also, as an FYI…….. the Comp version of that style rockers are made from 8620 chromoly steel……. Not stainless.
Also, as an FYI…….. the Comp version of that style rockers are made from 8620 chromoly steel……. Not stainless.
So far so good!
I've put approx. 12k miles on my car since installing the re-worked rocker arms & shafts.
No noticeable change in wear.
(Before they would get louder as the bushings wore out.)
I haven't taken them off to visually check or measure anything yet, but Before they would let me know with a whole lot less miles as they got louder and louder clicking and clacking.
I'm not sure if there's any ONE thing to contribute to the Results, they put in 1 piece bushings, hard chromed the shafts, put banana grooves in the shafts, relocated the oiling holes in the rockers to the roller tips.
I believe it is all of that working together.
Everything that R.A.U. did made a huge difference.
I'm Very Satisfied with the Results!
Mike D.
I've put approx. 12k miles on my car since installing the re-worked rocker arms & shafts.
No noticeable change in wear.
(Before they would get louder as the bushings wore out.)
I haven't taken them off to visually check or measure anything yet, but Before they would let me know with a whole lot less miles as they got louder and louder clicking and clacking.
I'm not sure if there's any ONE thing to contribute to the Results, they put in 1 piece bushings, hard chromed the shafts, put banana grooves in the shafts, relocated the oiling holes in the rockers to the roller tips.
I believe it is all of that working together.
Everything that R.A.U. did made a huge difference.
I'm Very Satisfied with the Results!
Mike D.
Ironmike
Well-Known Member
so, did you go to pushrod oiling? And if so, did you block off the shaft oil passages?
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