Steel wheel, SBP

[VGVIP]

Hi All.

I have a 1970 Australian Valiant, it is based on the Dart.
The front hubs are Australian specific.
The diff it Australian as well.

Recently I got a 15" SBP wheel from the US to try out and I have a few questions when I compare the mounting of the 15" US wheel to the original Australian 14" wheel.

When you look at the two wheels and the mounting surfaces there is a difference.
Both wheels have two 'rings' one on the inside of the 5 stud holes and one on the outside. The difference is that if you put a straight edge over the inside of these 'rings' on the Aussie the wheel you can see that the two rings are level. But on the US wheel the outer ring is more inboard than the inner ring. (Red arrow in picture)

As the mounting surface on the front hub and the rear drum are flat it causes the US wheel to only make contact with the hub/drum on the outer 'ring' where the Aussie wheel makes contact on both the inner and outer 'rings'.

You can also see in the photos of the wheel mounted that inner hole of the US wheel seats on the front hub but when mounted on the rear the inner hole of the wheel does not make contact with the outside of the axle shaft.

Is it safe to have the wheel centring on only the wheel nuts on the back wheels? I am a bit nervous about this.

If I have not been clear please let me know and I'll provide more pictures or diagrams.

Thanks

 

[j061093409]

the axle flange is smaller on the us wheel which will not allow it to sit on the brake drum. It is unsafe as it will vibrate and come loose
. A wheel spacer will take up the space so that the lug nuts are torqued against the rim squarely.

 

[VGVIP]

Thanks for your speedy response.

I noticed that my 'red arrow' did not appear on the picture where I intended, but it seems you know exactly what my problem is.

Sorry I am not aware of these wheel spacers. Can you please point me in the direction of the correct ones?

Thanks.

 

[VGVIP]

PS. This is the only wheel I have and is for the purpose of checking mounting/clearance problems like this before I invest in a set of wheels so I have no intention of using it before I am happy it is safe.
Your advice is much appreciated.

 

[RedFish]

I cant say yes it will be a problem. Yes you could probably have a special spacer made to fill the voids. I wouldn't run them. They look like they were designed for some other application, something with disc brake hubs maybe ?

The Magnum 500 wheel is a good example here. These wheels dont have the 2 continuous rings as seen in your pics. Instead each lug hole is in a stamped finger like area. The whole world knows about wollered out lug holes in them.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

I cant say yes it will be a problem. Yes you could probably have a special spacer made to fill the voids. I wouldn't run them. They look like they were designed for some other application, something with disc brake hubs maybe ?

The Magnum 500 wheel is a good example here. These wheels dont have the 2 continuous rings as seen in your pics. Instead each lug hole is in a stamped finger like area. The whole world knows about wollered out lug holes in them.

Xs2.
Being centered on the hub (hub centric) is desired but not something that is a must be. Look at all the aftermarket wheels on the market, few if any are hub centric. The wheel hubs being different depths on the rings is intresting, I have never checked my OEM wheels to see if they are like that but of course they are 14".
Can you post a picture of your hub/brake drum assemblies? Is this car disc on the front? If so can you post a picture of the disc set up also? So far the Aussie discs I have seen appear look identical to my discs but there has never been a close up picture.
As previously stated you could have a special made ring/spacer to correct the problem.

 

[VGVIP]

Hi.
Yep they are disc on the front These are factory, but a slight cheat in that the calipers are later model. - see pic below from when I replaced the discs and rebuilt the calipers a few months ago.
Don't have a pic of the outside of the drum but I'll get one later (this evening I hope).... suspect they will be the same as a US drum.

The pic below is the standard Aussie wheel mounted on the rear, I could run this lottery ticket that was folded double around the entire thing, so I suppose the bolts are holding the wheel very central in this case.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Hi.
Yep they are disc on the front These are factory, but a slight cheat in that the calipers are later model. - see pic below from when I replaced the discs and rebuilt the calipers a few months ago.
Don't have a pic of the outside of the drum but I'll get one later (this evening I hope).... suspect they will be the same as a US drum.

The pic below is the standard Aussie wheel mounted on the rear, I could run this lottery ticket that was folded double around the entire thing, so I suppose the bolts are holding the wheel very central in this case.

From just what I can see the rotor assembly looks just like mine. I have a feeling it is the way the aftermarket wheels are made with a one fits most concept stamping using different dies before the stud holes are drilled. Your factory wheel has four nubs to hold on the small wheel cover and the aftermarket only has three, is that correct?

I really don't see a problem with the way the wheel is centered. In your first group of pictures you only have one lug nut installed and the wheel is resting on the studs so it makes it look worse than it really is. Looks like a pretty decent fit on the disc hub.

 

[Bulldozer]

the lug nuts will center the wheel regardless.... i have countless wheels that didnt even contact the center hub.

 

[VGVIP]

From just what I can see the rotor assembly looks just like mine. I have a feeling it is the way the aftermarket wheels are made with a one fits most concept stamping using different dies before the stud holes are drilled. Your factory wheel has four nubs to hold on the small wheel cover and the aftermarket only has three, is that correct?

I really don't see a problem with the way the wheel is centered. In your first group of pictures you only have one lug nut installed and the wheel is resting on the studs so it makes it look worse than it really is. Looks like a pretty decent fit on the disc hub.

Yep probably a shared basic design, maybe different dimensions when it comes to the rotor itself.
It is a good fit on the front hub at the centre section that protrudes through the wheel is longer than on the rear so it does locate inside the wheel.

Here is the pic of the rear drum.
Also a pic of the US wheel mounted properly from earlier today.
It does seem to fit well, centres on the studs but the centre hole is too far outboard for the axle to reach through it.
I am just concerned that not having the inner ring seat on the hub/drum and not locating in the centre hole on the rear may be dangerous. Keeping in mind that this car is never taken to the strip but is used regularly on the road.

 

[VGVIP]

the lug nuts will center the wheel regardless.... i have countless wheels that didnt even contact the center hub.

Sounds like what I have happening here.
Is it safe?

What do you think? -Start out by checking the wheels and studs on a few shore test drives and then regularly after that to check for anything coming adrift?

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Yep probably a shared basic design, maybe different dimensions when it comes to the rotor itself.
It is a good fit on the front hub at the centre section that protrudes through the wheel is longer than on the rear so it does locate inside the wheel.

Here is the pic of the rear drum.
Also a pic of the US wheel mounted properly from earlier today.
It does seem to fit well, centres on the studs but the centre hole is too far outboard for the axle to reach through it.
I am just concerned that not having the inner ring seat on the hub/drum and not locating in the centre hole on the rear may be dangerous. Keeping in mind that this car is never taken to the strip but is used regularly on the road.

The way it centers on the center register doesn't worry me personally. Aluminum afrermarket wheels seldom ever fit snug on the register. My concern is the fact that the outer ring on the wheel is the only place that the wheel is touching the face of the drum. I would add some custom spacers to close up the space between the inner ring of the aftermarket wheel and the brake drum.

 

[VGVIP]

Your factory wheel has four nubs to hold on the small wheel cover and the aftermarket only has three, is that correct?

Forgot to answer your question....
Yes you are correct on both counts

 

[VGVIP]

The way it centers on the center register doesn't worry me personally. Aluminum afrermarket wheels seldom ever fit snug on the register. My concern is the fact that the outer ring on the wheel is the only place that the wheel is touching the face of the drum. I would add some custom spacers to close up the space between the inner ring of the aftermarket wheel and the brake drum.

Sounds like a plan.
Would be best done for all 4 wheels, just a flat plate to take up the gap between the hub/drum and the inner ring on the wheel and it could be held in place and centred when fitting the wheel by locating on the studs (but not going out as far as the outer ring.

Outer diameter would be less than the outer ring.
Inner diameter would be large enough to locate over the register.
As thick as is the difference between the two rings mounting surface.
Drilled with the 5 on 4 bolt pattern.