Strut Rod Help Please

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RustyRatRod

I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday.
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I need some schoolin on strut rods for A bodies. I know there are a couple of different styles. Are they interchangeable? Is one style "better" than the other? I am trying to decide between adjustable strut rods and factory strut rods and wondered about the differences? Thank you drive through.
 
I have the adjustables on the Demon, I noticed I didn't get as much wheel flutter when the front end came down. RRR, I know yours is a street application so I can't help your there. My friend with a 72 Duster that he installed them on swears by them.
 
The early and late are interchangeable if you use the corresponding bushings for the oem rod application. 73 rods and bushings in a 65 frame or 65 rods and bushings in a 73 frame. There are at least 3 or 4 aftermarket brands. I have RMS in my 66 which didn't require torsion bar removal for installation. Just a note the hardware for early and late strut rods is different as the thread pitch is different.

20230617_105447.jpg
 
I always found OEM work just fine.now I am shure if you want the front to come up fast on a sb. Bb slant 6 bars is the way to go.i guess at all boils down what you want the car to do.
 
This car will be a 100% street car. To that end, I know I don't necessarily NEED adjustable strut rods, however, the rest of the front suspension will consist of QA1 upper control arms, factory KH disc brakes, stock lower control arms, "whatever" torsion bars won't be too stiff with front and rear sway bars and whatever the best shocks are I can afford. So I know adjustable strut rods would be a nice compliment. So from what I can gather with the stock rods, the later seem to be better in that they use a "better" design bushing. Is that right?
 
Well ma mopar. Used rubber also box in the LCA that believe me or not but it certainly help with corning.
 
When I rebuilt my 73 front end over the winter, I was unable to find new rubber strut rod bushings. I didn't realize, at the time, that I could have used the earlier rods as bushings were available for them. I ended up going with QA1 adjustable strut rods and Delrin lowers which, obviously, added a lot of cost.
 
When I rebuilt my 73 front end over the winter, I was unable to find new rubber strut rod bushings. I didn't realize, at the time, that I could have used the earlier rods as bushings were available for them. I ended up going with QA1 adjustable strut rods and Delrin lowers which, obviously, added a lot of cost.
Besides the cost, are you happy with them?
 
I'm happy so far but I made several fairly major changes all at once so it's hard to tell what's what. I had 14" Rallyes, .87 torsion bars , worn stock suspension, wore-out shocks, and a Hellwig front sway before. Now 17" wheels, 1.03 PST t-bars, Delrin lowers with the QA1's, boxed LCA's, offset upper bushings, reinforced k-frame, and I splurged on Bilstein RCD's. After driving it several weeks, I'm still happy but not overwhelmed by the improvement in handling like I thought I would be. To be fair, I am running well-used front tires right now. Definitely feel the road a lot more.
 
Jmo RRR,
The only reason, in my mind for adjustables is more caster, you got that with the uppers.
It was my experience with customers, that if you got over 2.5* + caster, with manual steering, the steering got really heavy, especially at slow speeds in parking lots.
If I required more for racecar application, I'd grind the rear washer stop down to shaft dia.ish, and run a die down to extend the threads, use a nut to make the rear stop, hence a totally adjustable strut for 0$$.
I then adjusted the inner pivot so the arm bushing doesn't bind, and impair up/down loosy-goosy movement .

Now Rusty, like your sure-grip repair, this method is "proprietary", so if you use it, I don't have decals, so make a decal, "Struts by Inertia" no charge .
my .02 . . Good luck .
 
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Jmo RRR,
The only reason, in my mind for adjustables is more caster, you got that with the uppers.
It was my experience with customers, that if you got over 2.5* + caster, with manual steering, the steering got really heavy, especially at slow speeds in parking lots.
If I required more for racecar application, I'd grind the rear washer stop down to shaft dia.ish, and run a die down to extend the threads, use a nut to make the rear stop, hence a totally adjustable strut for 0$$.
I then adjusted the inner pivot so the arm bushing doesn't bind, and impair up/down loosy-goosy movement .

Now Rusty, like your sure-grip repair, this method is "proprietary", so if you use it, I don't have decals, so make a decal, "Struts by Inertia" no charge .
my .02 . . Good luck .

Adjustable strut rods are not for adding caster. The whole point of them is to reduce binding of the lower control arm and get rid of all the slop you get from the big fluffy strut rod bushings that let the LCA flex about with acceleration, braking and turning.
 
Adjustable strut rods are not for adding caster. The whole point of them is to reduce binding of the lower control arm and get rid of all the slop you get from the big fluffy strut rod bushings that let the LCA flex about with acceleration, braking and turning.

Um, I'm sure I said racecar, - maybe shoulda added roundy-round, to get +10* caster pass side,
thot I said adjust lower pivot to be loosy Goosy.
Didn't add I tried using heims at the front, but they didn't last very long .
Didn't add, I started doing this mod in the 60's, ya know, - when you couldn't go to the corner store and buy this chit, lol .

But thnx .
 
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As you may be aware of, I am also 100% a streeter.
For me;
>Corners with my streeter, are mostly at 35mph or less.
>Braking is from 60 mph or less.
>Some 80/90% of my driving is hiway cruising to and from my rural home to nearby towns.
>The biggest tires I can fit on the front of my 68 Barracuda are 245/50-15s on custom 8" wheels. My regular choice wheels are 235/60-14s on 7.5" off-the-shelf ET-IIs.
>Street tires tend to skate, a lot, and so; I depend on horsepower for rear-wheel-steering, as a back-up.

As you may know;
as the control arm cycles up and down, within the confines of the bump-stops, the caster is ever changing, being pushed or pulled by the strutrods, from the "at-rest" position. AND, because the control arms are of different lengths; as the caster changes, so does the camber, which then drags the toe-in with it. One of the strut rods jobs is to minimize those changes, or at least make them happen in a controlled manner and a useful direction.
So it's fairly important to chose an "at-rest" position that achieves the best results.
In that regard;
>I find no fault with the factory strut rods; altho, I modded the bushings for just a lil extra caster, a nod to the hiway cruising.

Another job of the strutrods is to keep the wheels from rolling under chassis during braking, while the brakes are trying to tear the wheel off. As they do this, on the rubber bushings, the control arm is moving to the back, and caster is minimized or even goes negative, but as the front end drops from weight transfer, the control arms cycle up into the fenders, which also produces negative caster. All this motion also increases negative camber. The result of all this is increasing the ability of the chassis to remain stable in straight-line braking.
I like the rubber bushings for this.
I also found that the Poly bushings were too harsh, when hitting things.
Because I am a streeter, I hit things like speed bumps, expansion joints, manhole covers, potholes, and occasionally, curbs. With the Polys it sometimes felt like the front end was gonna tear right off. The Rubber, was, IMO, a good factory choice and I eventually went back to it.
So then, after the initial set-up, and with the rubber back in there, flexibility returned, and so, adjustability and freedom of movement became moot.
To help keep the movement of the control arms in the sweetspot, I installed 1.03 bars and HD shocks.
To help the front suspension remain stable while braking in corners, I increased the amount of work that the rear brakes could do, by going from 245s to 295s and removing all rear brake hydraulic proportioning, then tuned the back with shoe and wheel-cylinder size...... to the point that, braking now, is like I imagine throwing out a chute would feel like, except that, I get it every time I step on the pedal. This really helps in mid-corner when coming in too hot for the surface-condition....... which with me, is a regular thing ....... lol. If I lose steering, cannot turn with power-on, then I know, that I can almost always brake my way back on course .......
Bottom line, for me was, I saved a lotta cash by not buying the adjustables, which I immediately spent elsewhere.
 
To simplify AJ's, I have read several places here in the past, that the hard bushings are just too harsh. All I got, LOL On my 67, "when it was running" all stock arms and bushings. Decent shocks, unknown and maybe too stiff T bars and factory anti sway, and barely got decent caster camber with offset bushings. I was flat AMAZED at how good that thing handled. I am no autoX/ road racer, but I like to go around corners.
 
This car will be a 100% street car. To that end, I know I don't necessarily NEED adjustable strut rods, however, the rest of the front suspension will consist of QA1 upper control arms, factory KH disc brakes, stock lower control arms, "whatever" torsion bars won't be too stiff with front and rear sway bars and whatever the best shocks are I can afford. So I know adjustable strut rods would be a nice compliment. So from what I can gather with the stock rods, the later seem to be better in that they use a "better" design bushing. Is that right?
The adjustable rods addressed the incorrect aftermarket bushings and the issues related to LCA fore-aft movement on ply and nylon LCA bushings. What happend was this: the fat rear bushing pushed the LCA back. Maybe the rubber bushings could tolerate this, but with poly the whole LCA moved back off the bushing.

They were also useful for those using heim joints instead of a bushing sandwich,
 
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I was thinking, just One Offset Bushing on the Rear of the Upper Arms to get the Arm to Swing Back a Lil more...
Does that sound Feasible or just Stupid?
 
Um, I'm sure I said racecar, - maybe shoulda added roundy-round, to get +10* caster pass side,
thot I said adjust lower pivot to be loosy Goosy.
Didn't add I tried using heims at the front, but they didn't last very long .
Didn't add, I started doing this mod in the 60's, ya know, - when you couldn't go to the corner store and buy this chit, lol .

But thnx .

The problem is this statement right here - "The only reason, in my mind for adjustables is more caster"

That is 100% false. Adjustable strut rods are not for adding caster. Period. They are to locate the LCA in such a way that there's no binding in its range of travel. Some cars may get some additional positive caster when their adjustable strut rods have been tuned to the right length, but that will depend on the car and the rest of the components used. That's very different than adjusting the strut rod length to add caster.

Next is the race car bit. Street car or race car is irrelevant for using the strut rods to add caster, it's still wrong. If anything, the race car should be even more concerned with the free movement of the suspension, which means that adjusting the length of the strut rod so that there is no binding is the most important thing. Using them to add caster could easily add binding and resistance to the travel of the LCA, which isn't good for the street or the race track. And worse for the race track (assuming your race track has corners), because you want faster transitions between the suspension being loaded one way to another. Adding binding or resistance will slow the suspensions movement from one place to another, and in the worst case situations can store energy that will unload at an inopportune time. And of course the race car should have other parts that can be used for adjusting the caster, like adjustable control arms. The SPC UCA's out there for our cars now can be used to dial in plenty of positive caster, I run my car at +6.5° and have plenty of adjustment to add more.

And then there's the heims on the street thing. The strut rods, when properly adjusted so there's no binding, are under very little load at any given time. This means they don't wear like heims in other suspension locations (ie, at the UCA). I ran QA1 style adjustable strut rods with exposed heims on my Challenger for 70k+ miles of year round street driving- rain, snow, gravel, you name it. The heims on those strut rods show very little signs of wear, and their tolerances are just fine even after all that. As I have said before, they will likely be the only part of the suspension on that car that will go back on it without some kind of update or rebuild when it goes back on the road. That same car was destroying heims at the UCA about every 7k miles, so, the exact same conditions the strut rods were exposed to. My Duster also has 30k+ miles of street driving on its adjustable struts, with no appreciable wear to the heims. And there are now boots you can put on heims like the ones used at the strut rods, so, you can keep all the road junk off of them now. There's no reason to avoid them for street use.

Same for the "harsh" thing. The strut rods shouldn't be affecting ride quality at all, especially adjustable strut rods. Keeping the LCA from flexing forward and backward under braking, acceleration and cornering shouldn't be adding any noise or jolts, they should just be holding the LCA in its proper location. If anything, when the non-adjustable OE style strut rods fully collapse their bushings they could in fact add bumps and jolts into the ride. That shouldn't so much be an issue with new bushings, but worn bushings can let stuff crash together.

This isn't my video, another member took this of his LCA and strut rod. It shows how much movement there is with the factory arrangement. This is just a drive around the block and a slow speed stop. Watch the front end of the strut rod, and how much it moves around. That's all fore/aft movement in the LCA. IMO, the adjustable strut rods are a great addition even if everything else is stock. It will reduce that caster change, making the handling much more accurate, without affecting ride quality.

Strut rod deflection

The video does a good job of showing just how much the OE strut rod bushings will deflect, not just to allow the LCA to travel up and down but how much the compress on either side with fore/aft movement of the LCA. That's all caster change. And you can pretty much eliminate all of it with adjustable strut rods with the length tuned to keep the LCA from binding.

Can you modify the factory strut rods to get them to be a proper length for your car with a little work? Sure. But why waste the effort? You will still have the fore/aft slop present because of the large rubber bushings. You may free up the suspension a little, which is a good thing, but you won't be improving the accuracy or precision of the cars handling because of the amount of caster change that the factory bushings allow under dynamic conditions.

And then there's the availability of the strut rod bushings. The 73-76 bushings are unobtanium right now. I actually just got a refund check from Summit for the set I'd had on order for the last 6+ months. So if you have a '73-76 set of strut rods, you're pretty much SOL for running stock bushings. You can use the 67-72 strut rods with the 67-72 bushings, but you'd have to locate a good set of 67-72 strut rods to do that.
 
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The problem is this statement right here - "The only reason, in my mind for adjustables is more caster"

That is 100% false. Adjustable strut rods are not for adding caster. Period. They are to locate the LCA in such a way that there's no binding in its range of travel. Some cars may get some additional positive caster when their adjustable strut rods have been tuned to the right length, but that will depend on the car and the rest of the components used. That's very different than adjusting the strut rod length to add caster.

Next is the race car bit. Street car or race car is irrelevant for using the strut rods to add caster, it's still wrong. If anything, the race car should be even more concerned with the free movement of the suspension, which means that adjusting the length of the strut rod so that there is no binding is the most important thing. Using them to add caster could easily add binding and resistance to the travel of the LCA, which isn't good for the street or the race track. And worse for the race track (assuming your race track has corners), because you want faster transitions between the suspension being loaded one way to another. Adding binding or resistance will slow the suspensions movement from one place to another, and in the worst case situations can store energy that will unload at an inopportune time. And of course the race car should have other parts that can be used for adjusting the caster, like adjustable control arms. The SPC UCA's out there for our cars now can be used to dial in plenty of positive caster, I run my car at +6.5° and have plenty of adjustment to add more.

And then there's the heims on the street thing. The strut rods, when properly adjusted so there's no binding, are under very little load at any given time. This means they don't wear like heims in other suspension locations (ie, at the UCA). I ran QA1 style adjustable strut rods with exposed heims on my Challenger for 70k+ miles of year round street driving- rain, snow, gravel, you name it. The heims on those strut rods show very little signs of wear, and their tolerances are just fine even after all that. As I have said before, they will likely be the only part of the suspension on that car that will go back on it without some kind of update or rebuild when it goes back on the road. That same car was destroying heims at the UCA about every 7k miles, so, the exact same conditions the strut rods were exposed to. My Duster also has 30k+ miles of street driving on its adjustable struts, with no appreciable wear to the heims. And there are now boots you can put on heims like the ones used at the strut rods, so, you can keep all the road junk off of them now. There's no reason to avoid them for street use.

Same for the "harsh" thing. The strut rods shouldn't be affecting ride quality at all, especially adjustable strut rods. Keeping the LCA from flexing forward and backward under braking, acceleration and cornering shouldn't be adding any noise or jolts, they should just be holding the LCA in its proper location. If anything, when the non-adjustable OE style strut rods fully collapse their bushings they could in fact add bumps and jolts into the ride. That shouldn't so much be an issue with new bushings, but worn bushings can let stuff crash together.

This isn't my video, another member took this of his LCA and strut rod. It shows how much movement there is with the factory arrangement. This is just a drive around the block and a slow speed stop. Watch the front end of the strut rod, and how much it moves around. That's all fore/aft movement in the LCA. IMO, the adjustable strut rods are a great addition even if everything else is stock. It will reduce that caster change, making the handling much more accurate, without affecting ride quality.

Strut rod deflection

The video does a good job of showing just how much the OE strut rod bushings will deflect, not just to allow the LCA to travel up and down but how much the compress on either side with fore/aft movement of the LCA. That's all caster change. And you can pretty much eliminate all of it with adjustable strut rods with the length tuned to keep the LCA from binding.

Can you modify the factory strut rods to get them to be a proper length for your car with a little work? Sure. But why waste the effort? You will still have the fore/aft slop present because of the large rubber bushings. You may free up the suspension a little, which is a good thing, but you won't be improving the accuracy or precision of the cars handling because of the amount of caster change that the factory bushings allow under dynamic conditions.

And then there's the availability of the strut rod bushings. The 73-76 bushings are unobtanium right now. I actually just got a refund check from Summit for the set I'd had on order for the last 6+ months. So if you have a '73-76 set of strut rods, you're pretty much SOL for running stock bushings. You can use the 67-72 strut rods with the 67-72 bushings, but you'd have to locate a good set of 67-72 strut rods to do that.

I couldn't read all that crap.
Back in the 60's we used, modified, fabricated everything, experimented, learned.
All my suspension is loosy, Goosy, to the point of flop .
You do know I built racecars ?
Tested geometries, roll center, long before the interweb.
Theory all you want, we did what was nec, with what knowledge/resources were available, and got results, more knowledge, better results.
Championship last 2 yrs, track records as well.
How long since you actually built a car ?
Keep it brief, not another tome .
Got some pretty nice hardware to prove it .
Preach on, - thump your chest - others will listen, you say good stuff.
I consider you one of the "Oracles" here, - don't go stupid on me now !
 
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I couldn't read all that crap.
Back in the 60's we used, modified, fabricated everything, experimented, learned.
All my suspension is loosy, Goosy, to the point of flop .
You do know I built racecars ?
Tested geometries, roll center, long before the interweb.
Theory all you want, we did what was nec, with what knowledge/resources were available, and got results, more knowledge, better results.
Championship last 2 yrs, track records as well.
How long since you actually built a car ?
Keep it brief, not another tome .
Got some pretty nice hardware to prove it .
Preach on, - thump your chest - others will listen, you say good stuff.
I consider you one of the "Oracles" here, - don't go stupid on me now !

There's a difference between "thumping your chest" and over-explaining things in an effort to cover all the important details under the assumption that some people reading may not already know all this stuff.

A person can spend a bunch of time and effort trying different things to figure out what does and doesn't work but they can also reduce that time and effort a huge amount by reading stuff written by people who have already been there, done that.

Neither of you guys are wrong or better/worse, just don't get all caught up in thinking anybody who writes a lot is a snooty know-it-all.
 
Yeah the back and forth isn't helping with the questions I asked.
 
Yeah, sorry about that, blu is usually spot on, and near 2 decades, I read and agreed with mosta what he said, seldom offering a different/option, when I did, we danced .
I think my opinion was just that, of the cheap easy way to achieve what you sought, without being jumped on and lectured, ffs, on stuff I am intimately, familiar .
It was my opinion Rusty I offered it .
I said jmo before and after, and woulda left it, if not for his first sentence ffs.
Done,
Good luck .
Again, my apology .
 
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Yeah, sorry about that, blu is usually spot on, and near 2 decades, I read and agreed with mosta what he said, seldom offering a different/option, when I did, we danced .
I think my opinion was just that, of the cheap easy way to achieve what you sought, without being jumped on and lectured, ffs, on stuff I am intimately, familiar .
It was my opinion Rusty I offered it .
I said jmo before and after, and woulda left it, if not for his first sentence ffs.
Done,
Good luck .
Again, my apology .
No problem. I wasn't pointing the finger at any one person. I appreciate any and all opinions and advice. I am certain the stock strut rods will work for me, but I'm still leaning towards the QA1. I have plenty of time while my broke *** tries to save up some dough. lol
 
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