Tear into it, or bolt in and go???

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Señor Ding Dong

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I have a dilemma, and I need advice on which way to go. I had a 1971 la318 in my 66 Dart, bone stock 2 bbl 318.i was going to do some upgrades, but I t was tired and I picked up a 1974 318 to drop in. The 74 already has been swapped to an edelbrock 4bbl intake and carb, so I was going to just paint it and go.

However, when pulling valve covers and intake to clean and paint the engine, I noticed it has 360 heads. So here’s my dilemma:

It’s March, and I want to be up and running soon. But with the 360 heads, I’m now wondering if it has been bored out, if the compression ratio issue has been addressed, if it has a can, etc. the guy I bought from didn’t know any history on it, just said it had a surprising amount of power for a 318, and compression was 180-185 across all 8 cyl.

So, do I accept that it runs well, paint it and go, or do I pull the heads and timing cover, and see what else has been done?
 
Well do you feel lucky? Whenever I take things apart, I find things to fix.
I have also just replaced gaskets and seals; I dislike leaks after me and brother destroyed Mom driveway.
 
So if I understand you correctly, you have the 74 engine out and probably on an engine stand?

At this point, all it costs is some gaskets and some measurements to determine what you have.

I stand to be corrected but I thought oversized pistons were usually marked on the top. ( .020,.030 etc..)

Compression is easily checked and if you pull the cam, that can be checked as well.

If you haven't heard the 74 engine run and you have it outside the car, it's cheap insurance to check it over anyway.

No sense gambling and possibly losing part of the cruising season when it is easily preventable.
 
If it has cranking compression at 180-185 across all cylinders they took care of the compression drop when using 360 heads.

Before you tear into it, just get a cheap borescope. As already said, aftermarket pistons are stamped with a bore size and usually a part number. I have this one

https://www.amazon.com/DEPSTECH-Wat...pixels-Smartphone/dp/B01MYTHWK4?tag=fabo03-20

It's not the greatest, but it's still more than enough to read a stamping on a piston without taking anything apart.
 
I would try a different compression gauge.
 
So if I understand you correctly, you have the 74 engine out and probably on an engine stand?

At this point, all it costs is some gaskets and some measurements to determine what you have.

I stand to be corrected but I thought oversized pistons were usually marked on the top. ( .020,.030 etc..)

Compression is easily checked and if you pull the cam, that can be checked as well.

If you haven't heard the 74 engine run and you have it outside the car, it's cheap insurance to check it over anyway.

No sense gambling and possibly losing part of the cruising season when it is easily preventable.
Well, that’s what the sensible side of me is saying, but I feel like once I start to dig in, it’ll balloon into something much bigger. A lot of, “Well, since I’ve already got it apart…”, types of statements.

The less nit-picky side of me says to just bolt it in and drive!

I know that actual right answer, just looking for some dissenting opinions to help me justify the easy route!
 
If it has cranking compression at 180-185 across all cylinders they took care of the compression drop when using 360 heads.

Before you tear into it, just get a cheap borescope. As already said, aftermarket pistons are stamped with a bore size and usually a part number. I have this one

https://www.amazon.com/DEPSTECH-Wat...pixels-Smartphone/dp/B01MYTHWK4?tag=fabo03-20

It's not the greatest, but it's still more than enough to read a stamping on a piston without taking anything apart.
That’s a good idea, I do have a wifi scope that’ll work. There is a build-up on the piston tops that I can see just shining a flashlight in the plug holes. How obvious are the markings on most pistons, would it show through some build-up?
 
Why do you say that?

I wasn’t too hung up on the actual number, just that it wasn’t 90-100 like the old one, and that they were all fairly even.
That is ultra high compression for a 318, I am not even sure which pistons to use to get it that high.
 
If the oil is pushed out of the hydraulic lifters by the valve springs (bled down) it might show higher cranking compression.
 
I always take the safe route and it ends up costing stupid money. I pull the cam out and find a nick in the bearing so apart the whole engine goes and $.

“IF” you have the time- drop the pan and check how clean it is and replace the pan gasket. (Hardest gasket to replace in car.)

Now if you do that and run it and it runs good! Hurray. If it goes “BOOM!” Then you have the other engine as a back up.
Typically if I have an engine waiting on the wings, the first one lasts for ever.
Syleng1
 
If it has cranking compression at 180-185 across all cylinders they took care of the compression drop when using 360 heads.

Before you tear into it, just get a cheap borescope. As already said, aftermarket pistons are stamped with a bore size and usually a part number. I have this one

https://www.amazon.com/DEPSTECH-Wat...pixels-Smartphone/dp/B01MYTHWK4?tag=fabo03-20

It's not the greatest, but it's still more than enough to read a stamping on a piston without taking anything apart.
I have the same scope. I've made very good use of it highly recommend.
 
rattle-bomb rebuild baby!

blow it apart, give a everything a hairy eyeball and if it passes the sniff test do gaskets. check the cam and see if there's any ID on the snout. degree that puppy and snap on a new chain and oil pump & screen. knock in new core plugs, blow some paint on it and call it done.

you're out a few hundo and the weekend.
 
To run pumpgas at 185psi in that combo, is a recipe for detonation disaster.
Like said ;
That is ultra high compression for a 318, I am not even sure which pistons to use to get it that high.
If that number is true, then chances are very good that the Q is real tight, so you might get away with it in a lightweight-A,
But you won't know that until you load it up, or it blows up, or you take it apart and look. But
chances are even better that the compression gauge is really optimistic ........

IMO, knowing what piston is in it is not helpful and I wouldn't spend the time to know the answer.

If it was mine, I got three ideas;
1) run it and hope it don't detonate.
2) reduce the pressure to a a known-to-be-safe level, or
3) put it on a dyno. If it takes WOT at full timing, at a normal AFR, and doesn't rattle, then I'm good to go. If it does rattle, then I also know what I have to do.

For me, this would be an ideal opportunity to learn the truth about what many "experts" would call excessive cylinder pressure. So I would just go to plan #3
 
If the lifters are bled down. The wallace calculator says a .030 318 would be between 9 and 8.5:1 to match your cranking compression. If your gauge is accurate.
 
Assuming this is a hydraulic lifter, to see if your intake lifters are bled down.
1. Pull valve covers.
2. Remove spark plugs (makes it easier to turn the motor over by hand)
3. pick a cylinder
4. Turn motor over by hand with breaker bar and socket until the exhaust valve starts to open.
5. With your thumb, press the pushrod side of rocker arm and see if it moves down.
6. Repeat
 
To run pumpgas at 185psi in that combo, is a recipe for detonation disaster.
Like said ;

If that number is true, then chances are very good that the Q is real tight, so you might get away with it in a lightweight-A,
But you won't know that until you load it up, or it blows up, or you take it apart and look. But
chances are even better that the compression gauge is really optimistic ........

IMO, knowing what piston is in it is not helpful and I wouldn't spend the time to know the answer.

If it was mine, I got three ideas;
1) run it and hope it don't detonate.
2) reduce the pressure to a a known-to-be-safe level, or
3) put it on a dyno. If it takes WOT at full timing, at a normal AFR, and doesn't rattle, then I'm good to go. If it does rattle, then I also know what I have to do.

For me, this would be an ideal opportunity to learn the truth about what many "experts" would call excessive cylinder pressure. So I would just go to plan

RED X
 
Well, that’s what the sensible side of me is saying, but I feel like once I start to dig in, it’ll balloon into something much bigger. A lot of, “Well, since I’ve already got it apart…”, types of statements.

The less nit-picky side of me says to just bolt it in and drive!

I know that actual right answer, just looking for some dissenting opinions to help me justify the easy route!

To me the real question is, how much work are you willing to do on this engine? And do you really think it ran ok before?

If you tear into it, how far do you go? Just check torque specs? Check all the bearing clearances? Are you going to change the pistons? Change the cam?

Because to me if the answer is you don't want to totally rebuild it again, why tear it apart? You already have the intake off so it wouldn't hurt to pull the timing cover and look at the timing chain and peep the cam to see if you can get a part number. But beyond that, what's the point? Unless you find something obviously wrong or can't see the piston numbers with an inspection cam, I don't know I'd go much further. In that latter case I might consider pulling the heads just to see what the chamber size looks like, but you don't need anything fancy to get that cranking pressure.

When I bought my Challenger it had a supposedly rebuilt 318 in it, done by the previous owner to the one I bought it from so I knew NOTHING about it. It sounded fine (and stock), the oil pressure was good, and the compression numbers were ok. Nothing spectacular, low compression 318 stuff, but even across the banks. I changed the oil, put a 4 barrel intake and headers on it and drove it 70k miles. And I didn't stop driving it because of the engine either, it still ran fine. Don't sweat the little stuff.

That is ultra high compression for a 318, I am not even sure which pistons to use to get it that high.

No, it's not "ultra high compression" for a rebuilt engine. It's the same cranking compression my 340 has with ~9.8:1 compression and a decent sized cam. Which means with low to mid 9-ish:1 compression and a smallish cam that cranking compression is not hard to get. Could just be KB 167's and a cut on the heads. It's definitely NOT "ultra high" compression.
To run pumpgas at 185psi in that combo, is a recipe for detonation disaster.
Like said ;

If that number is true, then chances are very good that the Q is real tight, so you might get away with it in a lightweight-A,
But you won't know that until you load it up, or it blows up, or you take it apart and look. But
chances are even better that the compression gauge is really optimistic ........

IMO, knowing what piston is in it is not helpful and I wouldn't spend the time to know the answer.

If it was mine, I got three ideas;
1) run it and hope it don't detonate.
2) reduce the pressure to a a known-to-be-safe level, or
3) put it on a dyno. If it takes WOT at full timing, at a normal AFR, and doesn't rattle, then I'm good to go. If it does rattle, then I also know what I have to do.

For me, this would be an ideal opportunity to learn the truth about what many "experts" would call excessive cylinder pressure. So I would just go to plan #3

Man you guys are dramatic, a recipe for disaster? Again, 180-185 cranking PSI is what the 340 in my Duster has had the whole time I've been daily driving it. Yes, with 91 octane at sea level with summer gas and hot weather it's borderline and I pulled a couple degrees of timing. But any other time it's not an issue. And of course it will depend on a lot of other things, I don't have the best quench on my 340 because its pistons are over the deck so you can do better than I've got for set up to prevent detonation.

And I shouldn't need to tell you that cranking compression isn't a super accurate way to judge static or dynamic compression, the gauges are basic and cranking speed plays a big part too.
If the lifters are bled down. The wallace calculator says a .030 318 would be between 9 and 8.5:1 to match your cranking compression. If your gauge is accurate.

If the lifters are bled down it would be clacking and clattering all over the place. 180-185 psi cranking isn't crazy, low to mid 9 compression ratio and a smallish cam all day long.
 
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That’s a good idea, I do have a wifi scope that’ll work. There is a build-up on the piston tops that I can see just shining a flashlight in the plug holes. How obvious are the markings on most pistons, would it show through some build-up?
Just run it. Maybe check slack on the the timing chain by a back n forth of the crank...n Make sure you have an oil pressure gauge hooked up that reads PSI.
If it's been run already and isn't noisy... it ain't broke, so don't fix it.
Some people are ocd, other just need to make it "their build".. sometimes its okay to leave good nuff alone.

Jmo
 
Most low budget builds I've done I would start with a used engine, I would tear it down to the short block, pop a couple rod * main caps to get a look at the bearings... Replace the valve seals, pop the freeze plugs & flush the coolant passages & throw a set of gaskets at it...
 
To me the real question is, how much work are you willing to do on this engine? And do you really think it ran ok before?

If you tear into it, how far do you go? Just check torque specs? Check all the bearing clearances? Are you going to change the pistons? Change the cam?

Because to me if the answer is you don't want to totally rebuild it again, why tear it apart? You already have the intake off so it wouldn't hurt to pull the timing cover and look at the timing chain and peep the cam to see if you can get a part number. But beyond that, what's the point? Unless you find something obviously wrong or can't see the piston numbers with an inspection cam, I don't know I'd go much further. In that latter case I might consider pulling the heads just to see what the chamber size looks like, but you don't need anything fancy to get that cranking pressure.

When I bought my Challenger it had a supposedly rebuilt 318 in it, done by the previous owner to the one I bought it from so I knew NOTHING about it. It sounded fine (and stock), the oil pressure was good, and the compression numbers were ok. Nothing spectacular, low compression 318 stuff, but even across the banks. I changed the oil, put a 4 barrel intake and headers on it and drove it 70k miles. And I didn't stop driving it because of the engine either, it still ran fine. Don't sweat the little stuff.



No, it's not "ultra high compression" for a rebuilt engine. It's the same cranking compression my 340 has with ~9.8:1 compression and a decent sized cam. Which means with low to mid 9-ish:1 compression and a smallish cam that cranking compression is not hard to get. Could just be KB 167's and a cut on the heads. It's definitely NOT "ultra high" compression.


Man you guys are dramatic, a recipe for disaster? Again, 180-185 cranking PSI is what the 340 in my Duster has had the whole time I've been daily driving it. Yes, with 91 octane at sea level with summer gas and hot weather it's borderline and I pulled a couple degrees of timing. But any other time it's not an issue. And of course it will depend on a lot of other things, I don't have the best quench on my 340 because its pistons are over the deck so you can do better than I've got for set up to prevent detonation.

And I shouldn't need to tell you that cranking compression isn't a super accurate way to judge static or dynamic compression, the gauges are basic and cranking speed plays a big part too.


If the lifters are bled down it would be clacking and clattering all over the place. 180-185 psi cranking isn't crazy, low to mid 9 compression ratio and a smallish cam all day long.
I'm not sure what you mean by clacking and clattering all over the place. Do you mean while he is cranking the motor over for a compression test?
 
One of my son’s friends buys junkyard LS engines, slaps them in his car with a turbo and runs them till they go bang. Then does it over again. Doesn’t even pull a valve cover.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by clacking and clattering all over the place. Do you mean while he is cranking the motor over for a compression test?

Do you do your compression checks with the engine cold?

It should be immediately obvious on start up if you’ve got one or more lifters bled down. And compression checks are supposed to be done with the engine hot. So yeah, that should have been obvious.
 
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