Tire wear, what's causing this! ? ?

-
joeboy said:
Why get it aligned if you know the bushing are bad? i wouldn't, it would be a waste of money in my opinion. If the bushings are worn badly like you say the control arms are able to move or bounce in/out of spec as you drive, so a new alignment would likely have similar results... Seems like a bandaid to a bigger problem. Id replace the bushings, get new tires, and then align that 68...
Click to expand...
+1 , no shop I go to would align the car with worn bushings , a waste of time and money . That would be like putting a cast on a broken bone and not setting the bones .
 
jimjimjimmy said:
no alignment shop is going to align your car with worn out bushings or any worn out parts.
Click to expand...

bingo!! Why would you get an alignment on worn out parts???
Replace your bushings, chk the swaybar and then alignment.
If its wearing outside on one tire and inside on the other, Im thinking adjusting tie rods might help.
 
If you know the bushings are shot do this. Replace worn front end components with new ones. Get new front tires. Take it in to the alignment shop. Done deal. An alignment is like 50 bucks for these cars. Let us know how it worked out.
 
Those tires are suffering from multiple problems.The fact that both sides are wearing the same edge,speakes to incorrect toe setting. The fact that one side has more wear than the other,speaks to a camber problem. The feathering on the one side speaks to a combination of camber/toe and/or bushing wear. The incorrect sway bar mounting, and end-links nearly scraping pavement speaks volumes about the inexperience of your mechanic.The fact that someone drove it this far, fighting multiple steering and braking issues, speaks to the inexperience of the operator.The statement about the car needing bushings, followed by another statement about getting an alignment anyway, speaks about your inexperience in these matters.
-So, im guessing you just bought it, and this is how you received it, and it must be your first car or nearly so,or, if this is not one of your earliest cars, and You drove the tires off it, or You installed the bar, well then you need to spend more time in the books.
-In any case, youve come to the right place.
-In spite of the opinion that you may already have formed about me, I/we are here to help.
-So heres the scoop; take it to a reputable alignment shop, and ask for a complete inspection, including the Unibody from the firewall forward. When you drive it, drive slowly.Next go to the bank and get a loan.Or maybe your pockets are deeper than mine.
-It MAY be that some or all of the balljoints,tierods,steering arms,and shocks, are ok. There are also bushings to inspect;Upper control arms(4),Strutrods(2), and the LCA inner pivots(2)
-There are complete front-end kits available, as well as bushing kits at various prices.I highly recommend the MOOG problem solver UCA bushings with the offset pivots.
-And finally, do not reinstall those tires on the front.If you just Have to run them, put them on the back of something .Personally, I would replace them.
-Once the integrity of the front end is back,you have to set the front ride height.You can do this yourself on a flat level surface.Once you have the front to rear rake where you like it, make sure the car is level from side to side.Adjustment is done by the preloading the T-bars. The car must be rolled back and forth after each adjustment to relax the bushings.After the alignment has been done you must not change the ride-height again.A change in ride-height, changes all the angles of the alignment.So get it right now.
-Then once at the shop, ask your guy to forget the factory specs.Tell him you want the maximum caster available (typically between 3 and 4 degrees with the MOOGs),commensurate with about 1/2*to 3/4* of negative camber and if your traveling on typically crowned roads, up to a 1/2* cross caster.Toe can be factory. At this point if I were doing the alignment, I would check the bump-steer.But correcting the bump-steer on my A-body was very time consuming(for you,read costly). I would also,check/adjust the steering box. I usually do that first
-If on the roadtest, the car is twitchy,(that is to say,requires constant minor steering inputs),the problem can usually be traced to; the tire pressures are not even/right,the toe is wrong, the steering box adjustment is too tight or, you have the dreaded bump-steer,or occasionally, to too much neg.offset of the front wheels.Then its a process of elimination. If you just cant get rid of the twitchyness, bump-steer is last, because its expensive to correct.
-The bump-steer usually comes about because of the non-factory caster and non factory ride height.These cars had very little to less than little caster from the factory.And everybody seems to increase the rear ride height,often to the point of having to increase the front height as well.This causes changes in the angles in the steering parts to the point that when a wheel encounters a bump or a dip ,it is able to cause a directional change without any driver input. Not good.
-Bottom line though, once the front end is set up with the extra caster,You will wonder why the factory didnt do it.The car becomes much more stable, especially at speed.
-This is how I set up my 68 Formula S clone, and I love it.I was working at an alignment shop at the time, with free access to the equipment. If I told you how many alignments I put on this car, you might...well I dont know what you might think.I spent a lot of time on it. I was younger then. That was in the early 2000s
-bottom line is that this may not be a cheap fix.
 
BIG-B-Barracuda said:
I've heard it thrown around all over but what exactly in detail is Toe & FOOT>?
Click to expand...
Toe in means that the front of the tires point towards each other, toe out is the opposite. Negative camber means that the top of the tire leans inwards towards the center of the car.
Positive is the opposite.
Negative castor means that the kingpin angle is leaning to the rear of the car.
Hope that helps
 
Are you sure about the neg. caster.
-Pos caster is where an imaginary line drawn through the two balljoints leans to the back of the car as referenced at the top balljoint. Or in simpler language pos. caster is where the top bj is closer to the back of the car than is the lower.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Those tires are suffering from multiple problems.The fact that both sides are wearing the same edge,speakes to incorrect toe setting. The fact that one side has more wear than the other,speaks to a camber problem. The feathering on the one side speaks to a combination of camber/toe and/or bushing wear. The incorrect sway bar mounting, and end-links nearly scraping pavement speaks volumes about the inexperience of your mechanic.The fact that someone drove it this far, fighting multiple steering and braking issues, speaks to the inexperience of the operator.The statement about the car needing bushings, followed by another statement about getting an alignment anyway, speaks about your inexperience in these matters.
-So, im guessing you just bought it, and this is how you received it, and it must be your first car or nearly so,or, if this is not one of your earliest cars, and You drove the tires off it, or You installed the bar, well then you need to spend more time in the books.
-In any case, youve come to the right place.
-In spite of the opinion that you may already have formed about me, I/we are here to help.
-So heres the scoop; take it to a reputable alignment shop, and ask for a complete inspection, including the Unibody from the firewall forward. When you drive it, drive slowly.Next go to the bank and get a loan.Or maybe your pockets are deeper than mine.
-It MAY be that some or all of the balljoints,tierods,steering arms,and shocks, are ok. There are also bushings to inspect;Upper control arms(4),Strutrods(2), and the LCA inner pivots(2)
-There are complete front-end kits available, as well as bushing kits at various prices.I highly recommend the MOOG problem solver UCA bushings with the offset pivots.
-And finally, do not reinstall those tires on the front.If you just Have to run them, put them on the back of something .Personally, I would replace them.
-Once the integrity of the front end is back,you have to set the front ride height.You can do this yourself on a flat level surface.Once you have the front to rear rake where you like it, make sure the car is level from side to side.Adjustment is done by the preloading the T-bars. The car must be rolled back and forth after each adjustment to relax the bushings.After the alignment has been done you must not change the ride-height again.A change in ride-height, changes all the angles of the alignment.So get it right now.
-Then once at the shop, ask your guy to forget the factory specs.Tell him you want the maximum caster available (typically between 3 and 4 degrees with the MOOGs),commensurate with about 1/2*to 3/4* of negative camber and if your traveling on typically crowned roads, up to a 1/2* cross caster.Toe can be factory. At this point if I were doing the alignment, I would check the bump-steer.But correcting the bump-steer on my A-body was very time consuming(for you,read costly). I would also,check/adjust the steering box. I usually do that first
-If on the roadtest, the car is twitchy,(that is to say,requires constant minor steering inputs),the problem can usually be traced to; the tire pressures are not even/right,the toe is wrong, the steering box adjustment is too tight or, you have the dreaded bump-steer,or occasionally, to too much neg.offset of the front wheels.Then its a process of elimination. If you just cant get rid of the twitchyness, bump-steer is last, because its expensive to correct.
-The bump-steer usually comes about because of the non-factory caster and non factory ride height.These cars had very little to less than little caster from the factory.And everybody seems to increase the rear ride height,often to the point of having to increase the front height as well.This causes changes in the angles in the steering parts to the point that when a wheel encounters a bump or a dip ,it is able to cause a directional change without any driver input. Not good.
-Bottom line though, once the front end is set up with the extra caster,You will wonder why the factory didnt do it.The car becomes much more stable, especially at speed.
-This is how I set up my 68 Formula S clone, and I love it.I was working at an alignment shop at the time, with free access to the equipment. If I told you how many alignments I put on this car, you might...well I dont know what you might think.I spent a lot of time on it. I was younger then. That was in the early 2000s
-bottom line is that this may not be a cheap fix.
Click to expand...

he is on the money with this one!
 
My control arm bushings are good, lower control arm ball bushings are close to bad, my upper ball joints are junk and my tie rods bushings are junk. Bump stops new,
I will soon be replacing new lower control arms, new upper ball joints and tie rods with both ends.. I'll keep you guys posted. And also be doing my front brakes might as well.
Any one have

Any photos of this being done!? Please share!!!
 
The OP has forgotten one critical part in the parts repair/replacement. If you don't replace the idler arm, you will be also wasting time and money. A worn idler arm will allow the toe to change while you are moving and still cause similar tire wear. It will also cause wandering and vague steering. Idler arm wear is very common.

Similarly, the pitman arm needs inspection and replacement if worn. Based on the condition of the rest of the steering and suspension parts, it is almost certain to be worn out. A loose pitman arm bushing will cause vague steering.

I would choose to not replace the upper control arm bushings ONLY if they were relatively new. They can move around if the rubber is old.

Bottom line: I would be taking it ALL out and renewing it all based simply on the very bad condition of so many of the parts, the general age of the car, and the present overall condition of assembly.
 
Much help guy... Thanks!!!

I saw the MANCINI. Has replacement lower control arm bushings would it be a good idea to simply replace the lower control arm bushing rather then the whole arm?

Thoughts!?
 
nm9stheham said:
The OP has forgotten one critical part in the parts repair/replacement. If you don't replace the idler arm, you will be also wasting time and money. A worn idler arm will allow the toe to change while you are moving and still cause similar tire wear. It will also cause wandering and vague steering. Idler arm wear is very common.

Similarly, the pitman arm needs inspection and replacement if worn. Based on the condition of the rest of the steering and suspension parts, it is almost certain to be worn out. A loose pitman arm bushing will cause vague steering.

I would choose to not replace the upper control arm bushings ONLY if they were relatively new. They can move around if the rubber is old.

Bottom line: I would be taking it ALL out and renewing it all based simply on the very bad condition of so many of the parts, the general age of the car, and the present overall condition of assembly.
Click to expand...



Very nice thanks! I would of overlooked that and went on with my business without Channing these
 
BIG-B-Barracuda said:
Much help guy... Thanks!!!

I saw the MANCINI. Has replacement lower control arm bushings would it be a good idea to simply replace the lower control arm bushing rather then the whole arm?

Thoughts!?
Click to expand...

no need to replace the entire lower arm unless there is something wrong with it .. just change the bushings..
 
ok great. how about the pitman arm and the rest like the upper ball joint.. good idea to replace entire thing or just the boots? (bushings? )
 
That much in 3 weeks?
Sounds like the problem I had, I replaced the lower control arm (LCA) bushings 2 weeks ago.
I couldn't get it aligned and the tires were screeching when driving straight.

When I replaced the LCA bushings the drivers side had only 20% of the old bushing left in it and the passenger side only had about 50% left.

Yeah not fun when you're replacing tires every month or so... Tires ain't cheap.
 
Tantibus-74 said:
That much in 3 weeks?
Sounds like the problem I had, I replaced the lower control arm (LCA) bushings 2 weeks ago.
I couldn't get it aligned and the tires were screeching when driving straight.

When I replaced the LCA bushings the drivers side had only 20% of the old bushing left in it and the passenger side only had about 50% left.

Yeah not fun when you're replacing tires every month or so... Tires ain't cheap.
Click to expand...

so you replaced the LCA bushings and it fixed you issue? your right it does sound like we have the same issues here. thank!:cheers:
 
BIG-B-Barracuda said:
ok great. how about the pitman arm and the rest like the upper ball joint.. good idea to replace entire thing or just the boots? (bushings? )
Click to expand...

It depends on how worn or old the part are... If the ball joints have been on there more than a few years I would replace them since everything is apart, but that's me because I hate doing suspension work and might as well for assurance.

DO NOT use cheap ball joints, go for quality parts. I typically use MOOG.
I used some cheap DURALAST ball joints from Autozone once. It was for my old 83 Dodge Ram, the damn thing lasted barely 2 years before I had to replace them, it was only the driver side.

And no I'm not that heavy...
 
Make sure its not something simple first like an alignment issue or the sway bar problem...
 
It's a lot of money and it sucks but, replacing the old & worn out components would probably still be cheaper than hospital bills if the parts do fail!

I am currently in a similar situation. My lower arm bushings are SHOT. I'm replacing them. Then I started looking at everything else and realized it ALL needs to be replaced.

Good thing it's going to be (probably) snowing soon, or I'd be impatient too.

I actually heard someone say this today..."You can either fix it quick, or you can fix it right".

Most of the guys on this board won't lead you down the wrong path, so it pays to slow down and take it all in.
 
Here is the list of thing to replace:
- Upper control arm bushings (2 pairs)
- Lower control arm bushings (2)
- Upper ball joints (2)
- Lower ball joints (2)
- Tie rod ends (all 4)
- Idler arm (1)
- Pitman arm (1)
- Strut rod bushings (2 sets)

If you replace all of this, the steering will be sooo much better. Any remaining steering vagueness will be in the steering box (some of that might be adjusted out), but the alignment will be fine regardless of the steering box condition.

And parts do not have to be worn to cause issues. Old ball joints have grease in them that gets dried and stiff and will resist turning; you would be surprised how much difference this simple thing will make; the BJ resistance to turning will especially distort bushings and prematurely wear out idler bushings for example. It can also prevent the car's steering from returning to straight-ahead after a turn, and you will have constant trouble making small steering corrections. You might remove them and figure out a way to get some of the old hardened grease out and pump new in, but you'll never get it all out. And the boots may be cracked and rotted out, inviting internal rust problems. I had some BJ's that had only 3k miles on them but were 23 years old and they had exactly these issues: I did not hesitate to replace them with new ones.

As said, no need to replace the lower control arm (LCA), just the bushing.

Some assembly info: The LCA bushing studs are left a bit loose in the K-member until the car is lowered to the ground and the ride height set. Only then do you torque the studs in place. You can do the same for the upper control arm bushings but that is less critical. The remaining bolts/studs/nuts can be tigthened as you go.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top