to stroke or not to stroke?

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j par

j par

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[\QUOTE ] Maybe it's just me, but it seems people that spend the money to build strokers don't want to hear (or believe) success stories about basic builds running very well.**That would be an AWESOME thread! "Strokers vs Stock stroke"... Oh boy, I bet that could get real interesting!! Oh yes, I know strokers perform, but, but... but....... there is a chance the fastest of the fast just may not be stroker.....[\QUOTE]
Now here I've quoted 318willrun ; and I disagree ! (And if I didn't it wouldn't "get real interesting!")
First of all I built a stroker (actually a machine shop did) basically $400 for an extra 50 cubes. Cheap no?
Second I love to hear success stories THAT ARE REAL, not fishing stories.
now 318willrun would like a thread like this I would say it would have to be something THEY have now, not a buddy, or in 1989, and keep it to small blocks only....now I would to agree with this format for a controversial discussion because if everything was completely equal accept the 4 inch crank and pistons well.....
 
I'm game heres my 2 combos..
416 based on a '71 340..
4" crank
Eagle rods
diamond pistons 11.9 to 1 comp.
Lunati voodoo .533/.552 cam
Edelbrock heads
comp cam magnum rockers
Air gap intake
Quickfuel 850..ran a best of 11.02 was going for 10's but rod decided to let go..

my 360 build..
Stock stroke crank 10/10
Eagle rods
Speed pro pistons 10.5 to 1 comp.
same cam
same heads
same rockers
same intake
same carb...has gone a best 11.79..both engines in my '70 3450 lb duster w/me in it full exhaust,full interior,all steel(except hood) even steel wheels..
 
years ago i had chrysler 300 J. with a 440 stroked to 500. and a full max wedge in take and cam. the low end torque was way better than you would think. it had a 2.73 rear gear. and would come out of 2 nd gear at 125 MPH. i didnt take long to run out of road. i only ran one car on the street. a late 60s full size ford galaxy with a 428. how fast i out ran him was completely scary. not a few car lengths but 10 to or more. he followed me 2 miles to see what i had.
 
Jpar, you want combo's of stock vs. stroked small block power and times?
Ether can be built to perform well, no doubt. The added stroke just (should) make it easier. Getting off the line and down the stretch. The added arm lowers the rpm a bit so you should need less gear. Less rpm is less stress on the engine parts.
 
Well, means I was quoted in the beginning, I will throw in my 2 cents. In a previous thread(s), it seemed some people immediately get called "fishing stories" when an equal, or lesser cammed and head stock stroke motor exceeds their stroker motor E.T. Some responses are like "I have that cam in my 410, no way you can do that with a 360" (so I paraphrased :D ). I truly believe the stroker has a big advantage, but I have heard (and am sick of hearing) how underachievers bash those that excel. For instance, when my lesser built 318 with 3.21 gears went toe to toe and running the exact same E.T. as a 340 built more aggressive with 4.11 gears, and the "search for the NOS bottle starts" lol.... well, here we go. Or when my slapped together 340 with 3.55's in my Duster totally killed (by more than a second) a professionally built 340 six pack with 3.91's in a Cuda, well, that don't sit well with people. So, what I would like to see is people post there E.T.'s and if it's a stroker or not. Tell us if it's a drag car or street car. Let's just see what some of the fastest small blocks are on FABO.
 
By the way, J par has a stroker but didn't list his E.T. as a contestant. I do believe he has documented his statement in multiple threads, so I will list it for him (hope he doesn't mind :) ) J par - 27xx lbs duster going 11.88 on a stroker.
 
Will;You opened up a can of worms right there.And that would be a new thread.

jpar I think your can of worms is even bigger.

This comparo is hugely complicated.

IMO dyno graphs or mph numbers, tied to chassis weight. I like mph numbers cause they are relatively cheap and easy to get, and very nearly levels the playing field as to engine power to weight ratio.It tells you nothing about driveability.And very little about chassis set-ups. But it will clearly separate the strokers from the also-rans.
Oops, now I've opened up the can.....
EDIT
Heres what would interest me;
A guy shows up and says" my stick-car goes 108 in the QT at 3450#".I check my charts and see that takes a W/p ratio of,10.3, which means at 3450, hes putting down something like 335hp, and with an unlimited chassis he could do it in about 12.3 seconds. But no surprise, the first time out his car was in the 14s. Then he could tell us what chassis mods he made to get it into the 13s, and eventually into the 12s, including shift loops and timing etc.
That there would be helpful as all get out. Then he could tell us what changes made the car less streetable, or what mods were no good at all, etc.
Then at the end of the post could be the engine build sheet, listing the major players.
As the mph numbers go up with smaller engines,streetability would quickly suffer. While the strokers would carry on quite a bit further.
Then as the thread progressed, we could open multiple windows, and compare combos, to help each individual to arrive at his own conclusions based on real world combos.
If the OP provided a template for this such that all the pertinent info was skillfully arranged, it would make comparos soooo simple
 
stroked340 said:
I'm game heres my 2 combos..
416 based on a '71 340..
4" crank
Eagle rods
diamond pistons 11.9 to 1 comp.
Lunati voodoo .533/.552 cam
Edelbrock heads
comp cam magnum rockers
Air gap intake
Quickfuel 850..ran a best of 11.02 was going for 10's but rod decided to let go..

my 360 build..
Stock stroke crank 10/10
Eagle rods
Speed pro pistons 10.5 to 1 comp.
same cam
same heads
same rockers
same intake
same carb...has gone a best 11.79..both engines in my '70 3450 lb duster w/me in it full exhaust,full interior,all steel(except hood) even steel wheels..
Click to expand...

I'm more impressed with the 360. It has less compression and 56 less inches. Seems you got more with less. Thanks for sharing.
 
this will just be a **ssing contest
maybe we should discuss the pros and cons of each.
it would be more helpful
 
You have to put it in the context, constraints, and objective of the owner.

For a street built cruiser, strokers are great because you get to a similar place with less cam and less radical/temperamental idle/cruise characteristics. Less cam can sometimes mean less expensive valvetrain needed.
 
^^ much more helpful

and less cam leads to better fuel economy which leads to more trips more driving and more fun.

The relationship, between Hp,car weight, and mph,was well established in the sixties and seventies,perhaps earlier.Thats one of the reasons that when asked how fast my car is, I give the the MPH number.That number instantly establishes a P/W . Whereas an ET tells how focused the project is and how much money/time you have put into it, and thats when the pi$$ing starts.
Like autoX says "You have to put it in the context, constraints, and objective of the owner."
You can build a streeter a bazzillion ways. But if you want to go 118 in the QT, the P/W says exactly one solution. The ET will reveal the chassis.

If I had it to do over, on my streeter,more cubes/less cam would be decision ONE.
 
Well said AutoX. Just what I was thinking when I wrote my reply. Doing more with less is always cool. A well planned combo will go far.
Mike's (MRL) site shows how he worked hard at making a combo(s) better and better and better.
 
autoxcuda said:
You have to put it in the context, constraints, and objective of the owner.

For a street built cruiser, strokers are great because you get to a similar place with less cam and less radical/temperamental idle/cruise characteristics. Less cam can sometimes mean less expensive valvetrain needed.
Click to expand...
Agreed, 100%. I don't think anyone is going to say a stroker isn't a good thing, however, in previous discussions when somebody does well with a stock block, somebody with a stroker say's "nah, nah", fish stories. Well, I believe both can run very well, so WE decided it would be fun to have people post E.T.'s. As stated, use of car, car weight, and E.T. Want to list the stall and gears, great! If this gives some people anxieties, then don't click on it!! A little bit of thick skin, swallowing of pride, and we might see some fantastic builds that could HELP somebody make a decision on their project. So, how about some E.T.'s ????????????????? :)
 
AJ/FormS said:
^^ much more helpful

and less cam leads to better fuel economy which leads to more trips more driving and more fun.

The relationship, between Hp,car weight, and mph,was well established in the sixties and seventies,perhaps earlier.Thats one of the reasons that when asked how fast my car is, I give the the MPH number.That number instantly establishes a P/W . Whereas an ET tells how focused the project is and how much money/time you have put into it, and thats when the pi$$ing starts.
Like autoX says "You have to put it in the context, constraints, and objective of the owner."
You can build a streeter a bazzillion ways. But if you want to go 118 in the QT, the P/W says exactly one solution. The ET will reveal the chassis.

If I had it to do over, on my streeter,more cubes/less cam would be decision ONE.
Click to expand...

And by less cam, it that a stroker soaks up cam. So a the same cam in a 340 will seem like a step down in a 4" stroker. It will act like it's got less cam.

More cubic inches usually consumes as much or more gas. But in the context of a street cruiser that you don't drive to work everyday, mpg isn't that significant because you can drive only so much on weekends and weeknights.
 
To be honest it's all in ur heads
If u can make the heads flow good and get a cam to match head flow u can run fast but my stroker runs hard and is a simple set up
1971 valiant 12 point cage, mini tuned 3:91 gears, 26x10.5 slick runs with no tuning and off shelf convertor(i need a new one) runs 11.60 113 mph all day long
I have a 408 10.5 to 1
Ported eddy heads flow 282 at 550
Hughes cam 555 lift hyd
And it's not a lie Stock Stamped steel rockers...lol

It's not text book but my aluminum rockers broke and I didn't have the money at the time and it ran better. And I've logged 45 passes like that.

So in winter im hetting a 9.5 in verter and my car will be a lot better my stroker is too much for the off the shelf highes imo.

In any motor if u get the heads to flow well ur golden, and get chassis to hook thats key.
 
purpleheart0189 said:
1971 valiant 12 point cage, mini tuned 3:91 gears, 26x10.5 slick runs with no tuning and off shelf convertor(i need a new one) runs 11.60 113 mph all day long
I have a 408 10.5 to 1
Ported eddy heads flow 282 at 550
Hughes cam 555 lift hyd
And it's not a lie Stock Stamped steel rockers...lol

.
Click to expand...
Nice run, and thanks for posting your E.T./mph. :)
 
ebigga67 said:
I'm more impressed with the 360. It has less compression and 56 less inches. Seems you got more with less. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

So am i and its running FASTER or as fast as some strokers out there:D:D
 
autoxcuda said:
You have to put it in the context, constraints, and objective of the owner.

For a street built cruiser, strokers are great because you get to a similar place with less cam and less radical/temperamental idle/cruise characteristics. Less cam can sometimes mean less expensive valvetrain needed.
Click to expand...

love these threads by the way.....this is my way of thinking, I have the heads, intake, carb, headers, etc on a 360 , so in considering a new short block build , is a stroker that much more money than a 360 build? I understand the stroker kit cost itself is, but other than that is it that much more?

my thought is if I'm going to pay machining costs , pistons, camshaft for a stock stroke 360, why not build a 408 for not much more money for the extra torque/hp for a street motor

I've only built stock stroke engines , just wondering what you experienced folk think
 
sorry for hijaching..I posted without thinking....should have started my own post...sorry fellas
 
AJ/FormS said:
Post 7 edited
Click to expand...



Concerning your edit, I think the comparison between a stock stroke 360 & one with a 4 inch arm on a street strip or strip only car is what the thinking is here on this thread or at least that is how I see it.

Those who post put up the build and car chassis specs. When you read them, it will become generally plain to see who's doing what with what items at whatever the weight is. If it is a drag car, state it. If it is something you drive more than just a weekend cruiser, state it.

A shame I won't be ready for this to quickly.
 
318willrun said:
By the way, J par has a stroker but didn't list his E.T. as a contestant. I do believe he has documented his statement in multiple threads, so I will list it for him (hope he doesn't mind :) ) J par - 27xx lbs duster going 11.88 on a stroker.
Click to expand...
YES ! or O-YA!!! beyond the machine shop doing the long block assembly minus getting the heads back and porting them myself, everything on the car was done by me. taking out the automatic, and putting in the cars first for speed, taking out the 7 1/4 going to an 8 1/4 and now an 8 3/4. Getting the car out installing the fuel cell, battery in the back, firewall, it's been a long road and enjoying the journey. I'm expecting great things and clearly I have chassis work to do, but I have been quoted correctly! I feel great about my first real stab at drag racing !!! O-YA time slips don't lie. Again mph says i should be quicker - chassis !View attachment 20150531_122338.jpg
 
stock stroke 360 weighting in at 2950 with driver...has run 10.78 @ 122 in Vegas a few weeks ago...probably go 10.40s at sea level, 904 with 8 3/4....

signature below show best of 10.65 at Bakersfield..but engine continues to pick up...since it is only on its second season...and going to change camshaft from MP 590 to hughes 6064...
 
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