To Time or not to Time

Early A-Body Discussions

  1. Blainethemono

    Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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    well, as most of u already know I installed a new electronic ignition on my 64 Dart.

    So, off to time the Beast Right? How hard can it be? Right?

    Oh Brudder..... So, I find out mine times in @ 0* TDC..... Sure u say, if u want it to run doggy, bump it up to 10*+ BTDC then the lil Six will come alive, u all say.....

    yeah, well I DID THAT, & it PINGS like crazy!!

    Oh, you have to weld the Advance weights down you say...... Nope, u can JB weld it...

    WTF??

    Screw that. Ive run an 2* advancer on my ZX11 for quite some time now, so Im comfortable with this. FBO Ignitions to the rescue!! Bought their lock down plate so now I can stay under 34* of advance.....




    What a frelling journey this is turning out to be....

    Locker.jpg
     
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    • doug 371

      doug 371 Well-Known Member

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      buy better fuel
       
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      • Blainethemono

        Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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        Im not putting Premium gas nor octane booster in a Slant Six.... besides, 5-6 tanks of cheaper gas will pay for the locker with the $$$ I save.

        and Canuck gas has higher octane then ours does anyway....
         
      • toolmanmike

        toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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        Are you checking the timing with the vacuum advance hose pulled and plugged? You probably have the original harmonic balancer and the outer ring could have slipped. If so you will need to find top dead center on #1 and mark the balancer to correct it's marks.
         
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        • 67Dart273

          67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          WHY would most of us know this? What sort of ignition is it? Any possibility the old "rotor phasing" problem is at hand?
           
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          • slantsixdan

            slantsixdan =..=

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            No, it doesn't. The offerings are the same on both sides of the border.
             
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            • Blainethemono

              Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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              Well here in Washington, Yes it is.

              They have had 94 Octane in B.C. for decades last time I was there, which was many, many, years ago.....so they could have dropped it to 92. In my neck of the woods only decent Super was Union 76 92 octane, which our Station sold, and that was it, only the rogue, unbranded Quik-E-Marts had 94.. which was highly suspected as being "doctored" gasoline.
               
              Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
            • Blainethemono

              Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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              Because of the 2 page long thread about it.... Anything over 34* total advance and it pings....& it was discussed quite in depth... either for points style or electronic ignition and OK, Im a drama Queen, 5-6 Users does not constitute the entire board. I figured something like this and everybody here would know about it... Guess I was mistaken...
               
              Last edited: Jun 23, 2020
            • 67Dart273

              67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Here's the thing. "We" can't keep track of everybody on this board. So please don't make assumptions like this. And did you check out rotor phasing?
               
            • toolmanmike

              toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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              You know what? We are getting no where fast.
               
            • Blainethemono

              Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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              When it was timed @ 0* before it didnt ping, and as noted on that Timing thread from this board, to get some snap out of your Slant Six time it to 10* BTDC, and lock down the advancer weights.
               
            • Blainethemono

              Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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              Yeah..... I am regretting even asking now...
               
            • Blainethemono

              Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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              I agree...... when Mods are made to a ZX11 the threads there r stickied so Everybody can easily find what works and go with it..

              You put headers on a engine and u can find info on it all over the place, as to where to put a dimple, drop an idler arm here, use these bolts, etc...easily Tribal knowledge and shared.. I thought that a mod like this was so revolutionary that it was known to all...... I have posted i was upgrading my Ignition, and was throwing it out there but my delivery obviously wasnt taken well

              My apologies for assuming it was like that here.
               
            • toolmanmike

              toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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              I was looking on your history for a ignition/timing thread you started so we could read the back round for this thread. Except for may be a mention in your Welcome Wagon thread, can you bring us all up to speed as to what you have been done. We are all in a fog here. (I am anyway)
               
            • Blainethemono

              Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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              I upgraded my points ignition 4 weeks or so ago 2 electronic. Car runs so much better.. Timing was stuck @ 10* BTDC..... but didnt know it. I was checking out timing for my year to double check which stated 0 to 2*

              Initially, thru an accident @ 1st, I drove the car all over the place and was tweaking in the carb, when I noticed the pinging, (thought it was the POS carb), and double checked the timing. Mark on fly wheel I used was wrong, so I retimed back to 0*, no pinging, but engine not as snappy.

              Thats when I started doing some digging, and found the advancer thread to lock down the weights to run more advance, eliminate the ping caused by too much advance, and get more HP out of the engine. When I read that I was thinking "those Guys are holding out on me....." more laughing to myself then any thing else, so I posted my thread. Still in snarky mode... happy face -> :)

              Should have added Happy faces, but Im in I.T. and when an email is taken wrong no amount of "happy faces" can save it from being taken that way... and boy, Im an expert @ my emails being taken wrong
               
            • toolmanmike

              toolmanmike FABO MODERATOR Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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              You're good. By the way, the 64 Dart in your first thread is a knock out. Set the timing to where ever it is happy. The mark you see with your timing light might be off. @halifaxhops here is an expert with distributors and may be able to help.
               
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              • Johnny Dart

                Johnny Dart Well-Known Member

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                To time or not to time.
                Yes...Time.
                Adjust your timing until it pings. Back your timing off until it doesn't ping. Drive away. Don't over think it.
                 
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                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                  The thing is, it only takes one or degrees too much timing at any place in the Rpm band, below about 3600 rpm,to cause pinging.
                  What I mean is, your engine might ping at 14* at 2000rpm, but be fine at 14*@2100 And then want 16* at 2200, I mean it's just an illustration.
                  So how can you possibly choose 10* at idle and some arbitrary number at some arbitrary higher number? You cannot.
                  You need to ask your engine every 200 rpm or so " is what I'm giving you too much?" And then respond accordingly with more or less timing and then asking again.
                  In that way you will accumulate a bunch of data that you can build a graph with, of what is a successful curve. Then you gotta try and hit as many of those points as you can, with never exceeding any.
                  If that means you have to start at zero advance at idle, well that's just the way it goes. Besides, who cares what your timing is at idle? certainly not your engine. It only needs an accurate curve from stall-speed to about 3600; anything else is a non-issue.
                   
                • 67Dart273

                  67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  "Some stuff' to think about in no particular order

                  1....Several? Many? people on here have had trouble with ROTOR PHASING. Google it, learn what it is. The pickup wires to the module may be reversed

                  2....Harmonic balancer may be slipped. Check timing mark with a PISTON STOP

                  3....What is your timing light? If it is a 'dial up' deal (with a delay knob) there has been several incidences they are not accurate.

                  4...It may be possible the engine is carboned up, the head / deck has been shaved "a lot" or the engine uses a bit of oil in the valve guides, etc. Oil causes premature pinging.

                  5.. Maybe the distributor has problems. Who knows what you have to check.
                   
                • Blainethemono

                  Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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                  Well, as u can see its not easy to verify marks. Can somebody decipher them for me? Right now she is timed @ the bottom mark and she pings

                  Ive done Timing by Ear before, its kinda of like Gear by Ear, right. Turn the Dizzy till it quits pinging and walk away... lol

                  IMG_20200629_140742.jpg
                   
                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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                  Well that might get rid of ping at a certain rpm, but if your rate of advance does not match what the engine wants, that could pretty much kill the power, everywhere.
                  Advance on the tab, is always CCW from the front of the engine.
                  So the bottom mark is 10* retarded.
                  You need to investigate what that's about, which starts with verifying the mark, and a compression test. And ends with fresh from the pump gas.
                   
                • Blainethemono

                  Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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                  Thanks..... timing is now on the money
                  I also noticed a slight exhaust leak near the exhaust manifold of the down pipe... thats what I was hearing & mistook it for pinging... It must have just started up a lil while ago, for I didnt hear it at first.

                  Terribly sorry for all the drama & wasting a lot of Peoples time...
                   
                  Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
                • pishta

                  pishta I know I'm right....

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                  Your tab is on the driver side? Mines up top and the tdc mark is just to the right of the key that points straight up #1 cylinder. Weird they moved it, just like on an LA.
                   
                • Blainethemono

                  Blainethemono Well-Known Member

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                  Yeah thats what I thought as well! hahahaha
                   
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