Torsion bar Warning

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Ouch!!!
Since you are in CA that does not look like rust caused the damage.
Can you post some pic's of the after-reinforcement?
 
I'll try. The welder is building boxed pieces to slide up onto the cross member and then welding them both to the crossmember and to the rear sockets.

AND: I noticed that when I lay my stock torsion bar down next to the PST, the PST front piece is at a different angle than mine. The rears are the same but the fronts are at a different angle so they go into the A frame different. Is that normal? My mechanic says there is hardly any adjustment left because of that.
 
California Dart said:
I'll try. The welder is building boxed pieces to slide up onto the cross member and then welding them both to the crossmember and to the rear sockets.

AND: I noticed that when I lay my stock torsion bar down next to the PST, the PST front piece is at a different angle than mine. The rears are the same but the fronts are at a different angle so they go into the A frame different. Is that normal? My mechanic says there is hardly any adjustment left because of that.
Click to expand...

This has been posted about before but I don't recall what came out of it. Maybe a search will tell you if someone here doesn't chime in.
 
California Dart said:
I'll try. The welder is building boxed pieces to slide up onto the cross member and then welding them both to the crossmember and to the rear sockets.

AND: I noticed that when I lay my stock torsion bar down next to the PST, the PST front piece is at a different angle than mine. The rears are the same but the fronts are at a different angle so they go into the A frame different. Is that normal? My mechanic says there is hardly any adjustment left because of that.
Click to expand...

I asked the same question this summer.
Factory bars are made with about a 30 deg offset.
Aftermarket are most of the time are 0 deg.
I also ended up with almost no adjustement in my 1.030 bars.
 
I read this before too and I've heard that this specific issue is typical with the bars from PST, but not all torsion bar suppliers. When I was trying to decide, I narrowed it down to bars from Mancini (stock mopar, but they only go up to .096"), Hotchkis, or Firm Feel. Hotchkis only has large bars and I've heard from some that Firm Feel bars are good, but at least one person I know had an installation problem with those bars due to the hex head being longer than normal. Not sure if any of these 3 are offset. I bought mine from Mancini and the shop that installed had no problems.

Thanks for the reinforcement heads up! If I go up in size from my .092's I will need to check that out!


sireland67 said:
I asked the same question this summer.
Factory bars are made with about a 30 deg offset.
Aftermarket are most of the time are 0 deg.
I also ended up with almost no adjustement in my 1.030 bars.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry, I don't get how bigger bars could cause the socket to bust like that. The bar is carrying the same weight, right. Aside from a firmer ride, whats different?
inquiring minds want to know
 
pauly v.100 said:
Sorry, I don't get how bigger bars could cause the socket to bust like that. The bar is carrying the same weight, right. Aside from a firmer ride, whats different?
inquiring minds want to know
Click to expand...

Imagine you have two springs, one is stiffer than the other. If you compress them the same distance, the stiffer one will be pushing back with more force than the softer one.

Now imagine two Mopars sitting at the same ride height but with different-size torsion bars. If they both go over the same size bump, the car with the stiffer bars will put more strain on the crossmember mount than the one with the soft bars. This is why new stiff bars with 'modern' spring rates put more strain on the crossmember than they might have originally been designed for.
 
I hear what your sayin but, for the stiffer spring to compress the same amount as the light spring requires more pressure, i.e. weight in this case.
that t-bar socket was compromised somehow whether it be crappy build from the factory, somehow hammered in its previous life (think Dukes of Hazzard), plain old metal fatigue or something.
the bigger bars probably just made that socket fail sooner rather than later.
 
How many miles do you have on those T-bars California Dart?

The amount of adjustment left in the adjusting screws will not change the rate or impact forces than the rear mounts sees. One thing that would if the car was too low and it was bottoming out. It doesn't seem from your pictures that the front end was dropped and there should be plenty of clearance between Lower Control Arm and frame.

I've got 80,000 miles from 1994 to 2010 with .99 T-bars on my 68 Barracuda. Then I've got about 3,000 miles on my 1.14" T-bar that are about 50% more rate than the .99" bars (little less than 3 times stock). I don't have rear reinforcing plates.
 
pauly v.100 said:
I hear what your sayin but, for the stiffer spring to compress the same amount as the light spring requires more pressure, i.e. weight in this case.
that t-bar socket was compromised somehow whether it be crappy build from the factory, somehow hammered in its previous life (think Dukes of Hazzard), plain old metal fatigue or something.
the bigger bars probably just made that socket fail sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...

That's an excellent point. The forces acting on the wheel never change, they're determined by the weight of the car.Torsion bar suspensions are 1:1, so, the force acting on the wheel is the force acting on the anchor. The only difference is the amount of travel.

Where it gets sticky though is the impulse. The same amount of force is acting on the bar, but, since a bigger torsion bar has a higher spring rate, it deflects less. That takes less time then a smaller bar, which would deflect more, so, the same amount of force acts over a shorter period of time.

Either way, I think that anchor had a serious issue with it that would have come up sooner or later, regardless of the torsion bar.
 
Guys, I built, and helped build, a few altered wheelbase cars in the past, and removing and relocating the torsion bar sockets was part of the job. Back when we couldn't get 10-over bars, some of us would pull bars from a C-body car (5-over) and simply remove and "reverse" the t bar sockets, which put them in a perfect location to use the C body bars.

Of course, it did require 'boxing' to maintain proper indexing.

Of note, however, was just how much of the T-bar sockets that were NOT "finish welded" (by Ma Mopar) from inside, and I think it would surprise many to see just how small some of the weld seams are that locate these sockets. If you road race your Mopar, you should consider some kind of reinforcement for the sockets.

I also notice that the sheetmetal is torn adjacent to the hole that your e-brake adjusting rod is running through, and the 'tear' appears to be counter-clockwise, which tells me the torsion bar was probably not the culprit.

Think about it; the T-bar damage you've shown is on the drivers side; when a "load" is exerted on the bar (as you view the photo), the loading would force the socket in a clockwise direction (i.e. body comes down, bars rotate clock-wise as viewed from the rear). If the sheet metal didn't tear under a positive load, I seriously doubt a rebounding negative load could do such damage - unless other factors were present...

The other thing I'd investigate is whether or not the floor pan has any cracks. I've seen a lot of Mopars, after being thrashed over the years - without frame connectors or other frame support, experience cracking around the areas where factory torque boxes would have been mounted, and the stressed areas around the torsion bar mounts and panel seams. The combination of a cracked pan, improperly welded sockets from the factory, and the condition of the e-brake hole adjacent to the socket appear to be contributors here. That's just my opinion.

I've had no issues with JS, or anyone eles's bars, and I've heard that Firm Feel makes bars for most every other supplier out there these days, though I can't confirm that. Let us know what you find out.

Also, though I'm sure there are many that like the Alterkation stuff; it ain't cheap. I like the simplicity/adjustability of the factory suspension and you can repair your car for a fraction of a complete front end replacement. Again, just my opinion.

Good luck with it and let us know what you find.

Southernman
 
737jetdr said:
Here's a link to a post I did last summer.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=147769

I found this when inspecting my suspension one morning. I looks to me as if it was a bad weld from the factory.
Click to expand...
I think it was a combination of the 1 inch bars with a poor or insufficient weld job. After seeing what happened I would advise anyone to reweld and re-enforce the rear sockets "just to be sure". It's an easy fix if done BEFORE they rip out. Just getting under there and hitting the sockets with a wire feed will be OK but I chose to add plates. I'll try and add some pictures today.
 
You need to replace that section out of another car from the same side . They are clocked at a specific location and doubt if you will get that correct. Been there.
 
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