Tranny stuck in bellhousing?

[694spd]

I'm trying to pull the 4 speed out of the 69 Dart that I recently bought. I have removed the 4 bolts that attach the trans to the bellhousing. I'm supporting the trans with a jack thinking that it should just slide ride out, but I have had no luck doing so. I tried rocking the tail shaft from side to side and also tried prying with a pinch bar on the trans at the bottom where it meets the bellhousing. I'm I missing something here?
Just a note. This car has been parked in for the last 40 years.

 

[crackedback]

You might have to drop the tailshaft down a bit to get it past the crossmember.

 

[694spd]

You might have to drop the tailshaft down a bit to get it past the crossmember.

I'm not sure what you mean. The crossmember piece has been removed. I also tried lowered the jack some so the tranny was unsupported thinking it would separate itself from the bellhousing due to it's own weight, but no dice.

 

[383Scampman]

This can be problematic on vehicles that have been sitting. I can only offer suggestions. Put tranny in neutral. The bearing retainer o.d. and the bellhousing hole are a tight fit. .000"-.001" clearance. It will take some effort to break the bond between the two. Get some threaded rod the size of the tranny bolts or get some long bolts and cut the heads off them. This will help stabilize the tranny as it comes out. (also helps in installation). If you can get some PB Blaster between the ball and the tranny, try it. Wiggly, shake like mad. If you have a dead blow hammer, flial away. Work the clutch pedal a few times. It may be stuck there too. Don't give up, Tom

 

[Daves69]

If the bolt are out I can think of four potential binds. Input shaft hanging in the pilot, input splines rusted to the disc, front bearing retainer rusted to the bell, or trans face to the bell.
Spray some penetrant through the fork hole and around the trans face and start wiggling the tail shaft housing.

 

[TrailBeast]

Pry that puppy back with a big flatbar.
You will have to replace anything it could damage anyaway.

Once it's back a few inches you can spray things if you need to, but I have seen the clutch disc center come out with the trans.

If it's worse than you feel can be done with a bar, then you have to go through the inspection cover, unbolt the pressure plate and pull the bell with things still hanging on the input shaft.
This allows you to deal with the corrosion on the bench instead of under the vehicle.

 

[694spd]

Well I have called it a day for now. Thanks for the replies. I will try all of the things mentioned here when I resume in the morning. The one thing I can't do is work the clutch pedal because I have already removed all of the clutch linkage.

 

[TrailBeast]

Well I have called it a day for now. Thanks for the replies. I will try all of the things mentioned here when I resume in the morning. The one thing I can't do is work the clutch pedal because I have already removed all of the clutch linkage.

The clutch fork and TO bearing moving or not won't matter anyway.
You are probably going to find that the disc hub is corroded onto the splines, and taking the bolts out of the pressure plate and removing the bell with it is probably going to be your solution if it doesn't pop loose.
It's not as bad as it sounds, you just need to pull the frozen parts all at once sometimes.

 

[acpat]

inspection cover on a scattershield ? lay under car and get your foot on the tailshaft. Rock that baby as hard as you can. I would not spray anything as that yellow you can see through the clutch fork hole is scheifer clutch goodies.

 

[nm9stheham]

inspection cover on a scattershield ? lay under car and get your foot on the tailshaft. Rock that baby as hard as you can. I would not spray anything as that yellow you can see through the clutch fork hole is scheifer clutch goodies.

Yes, I thought that was what it is; so no inspection plate. Try the muscle method but then I would loosen the bellhousing to see if the trans and bell wiggle together; then you will find out if the splines are rusted. If not, then you can proceed with the two as a unit. If the splines are stuck, I am not sure how to get them freed without some rust penetrant on the splines.

OP, does a gap open up between the trans and the bell housing at all? If not at all, then I'd see if I could carefully drive something between them for a short way to see if it pops loose.

 

[694spd]

I just went out and took some more pictures. It has a one piece motor plate so there will be no removing the pressure plate bolts.

The removal of the tranny was suppose to be just the first step in the removal of the engine. I thought that it would be easier to pull the tranny first, then the motor and bellhousing together.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The most likely culprit is the input shaft stuck in the pilot bushing/bearing. My auto shop instructor told us in high school to loosen all four bolts but do not remove them, then grab the transmission by the tailshaft and "shake vigorously". Those were his words. After almost 40 years of mechanic work, I have not had one single transmission that did not succumb to being "shaken vigorously". Just something that's always worked and stuck with me.

 

[Daves69]

inspection cover on a scattershield ? ...................

Yeah, some did......................

 

[srduster340]

This may be a long shot but I was wondering if there is enough room to get a flex head gear wrench or ratchet thru the starter hole to take the pressure plate bolts loose. Or maybe unbolt the block plate, bent it up outta the way, or cut it , and if there's enough room between the flywheel and bell housing, remove the pressure plate bolts. Then I'd put the trans in gear and turn the trans yoke to break the pilot bushing from the input shaft. Maybe drill out he pressure plate bolts from the back side of the flywheel. Just throwing ideas out there.

 

[AJ/FormS]

A method that I have used on other similar situations but never on one like yours is this;
I take a big iron or brass bar and a hammer. I appy the bar to the shaft and give it a few whacks. Then I rotate the shaft about 1/8 turn and repeat . Thus I work my way all 'round the shaft. This knocks the corrosion loose and away from the shaft. It hassn't always worked, but mostly does. And no you wont bend the input. That shaft is far stronger than any force you can put on it with a hammer,from through that window. And the input bearing is too far away to absorb much. Besides its probably ready to be replaced anyway. That just leaves the pilot bushing. And the last one I bought was under $2. So wail away. Oh yeah getting that fork-pivot out to provide room,will be fun.

I should also mention that Rustys method has always worked for me as well.

I also remember that of the three different "blow-proof" bellhousings that I have installed, ALL three were an extremely tight fit between the pilot hole and the retainer.
Get vigorous!

One more thing; Years ago,when I worked in a driveline rebuilding shop, they started me off doing manual trannies. I noticed a few of them (mostly GMs)had strange wear patterns on the pilot ends of the input gears. I attributed that to having suffered seizures in the pilot bushings.I think this was mentioned by Rusty? I just wanted to concur. In the few M/T Mopes that I have owned, that bushing was not very tight in the crank, so
.............Get vigorous.
I would put a chain around the tail, and yank it out with that 8-wheeled FrankenWagon. I think that'd do it.Dont forget to engage the E-brake. Heh-heh.

 

[sireland67]

Is there any way to take the pressure plate bolts out thru the clutch fork hole?

 

[71DodgeDemon340]

I'm trying to pull the 4 speed out of the 69 Dart that I recently bought. I have removed the 4 bolts that attach the trans to the bellhousing. I'm supporting the trans with a jack thinking that it should just slide ride out, but I have had no luck doing so. I tried rocking the tail shaft from side to side and also tried prying with a pinch bar on the trans at the bottom where it meets the bellhousing. I'm I missing something here?
Just a note. This car has been parked in for the last 40 years.

Hmmmm i have a dumb question, are you supporting the rear of the engine at all? Sounds like you have just the trans supported, i would think the weight of the rear of the engine and the trans putting pressure on your jack is making it feel like the trans is stuck,
If your not already, jack the trans back up to where it normaly sits, put two decent sized rachet straps around the torsion bars so that the rear of the engine can rest on them ( the rear of the oil pan should sit nice and comfy thus supporting the rear of the engine), then slowly let trans down a tad and see if she will wiggle out, thats how we installed/uninstalled the 4 speed and scattershield in my demon.
Once the trans is out, you can remove the scattershield and clutch/pressure plate, then pull engine, also looks like your scattershield has the block saver plate, which will have to stay on the engine till you pull the flywheel

Dont worry the engine does not weigh enough for the rachet straps to hurt the oil pan, at least it didnt hurt mine. most common cause of oil pan damage is caused by jacking the car up by the oil pan

 

[Daves69]

If you haven't separated it yet put a couple bolts back in and pull the whole assembly out. Bust it apart after. A couple heavy gauge (stiff) wide blade scrapers might help wedge it apart.

 

[AJ/FormS]

In post 11, the last pick
Check that there is zero clearance between the tranny and the bellhouse.
Now it seems to me, that if it was a spline issue or even a bushing issue, there would be clearance there. There should be lots of clearance if it was a spline issue as the diaphragm is fairly flexible. With a pilot bushing issue, one could at least move the tranny back by the amount of clearance in the front bearing.
But with zero clearance, Ima thinkin its all in the retainer fit.If thats right then, Put the boots to er and dont hold back.Hit er from the East then hit er from the West. Repeat.
I think it would help to lower it a couple of inches. Remove the distributor cap. Support the engine. I use a 2x4 long enough to span the T-bars, and some shimmage. (cool word:shimmage)
............Vigorous

 

[694spd]

Well I got the tranny out. I ended up using a long pry bar and wedging it between the bottom of the bellhousing and the tranny. I kept working it until it finally broke free. It looks like the binding was from the around the bearing retainer ring and where the bellhousing met up to the tranny.

 

[nm9stheham]

And the rust between the faces. Good deal!