Trick Flow 440 heads, The Real Deal?

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AndyF said:
Swapping on a ported M1 4500 intake with a 1050 Dominator picked the power up to 715 hp @ 6500 rpm.
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Thanks Andy. 715 HP - Over the hump! Did the torque stay? Spacer? Open or 4-hole in either case? Tapered?

Of course you know all of that power is coming from those darn rocker arms nobody else has anywhere - LOL.
 
That's insane from the ported intake. I'm really surprised it is any better than the new trick flow intake. Thanks for taking the time and money to do all this and keep us up to date with it all
 
jamesdart said:
That's insane from the ported intake. I'm really surprised it is any better than the new trick flow intake. Thanks for taking the time and money to do all this and keep us up to date with it all
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Wilson did a huge amount of work on the M1 intake. They added about 1/4 inch of welded material on the outside of the runners and then opened up the runners a large amount. I think they increased the runner size by about 25% which is a very big deal. They basically created a new intake manifold from the one that I sent them.

The new Trick Flow intake is very nice, but it isn't nearly as big internally as the Wilson modified intake. So I'm not surprised at the power difference between them. I could've run a Dominator on the Trick Flow intake to see how it worked but I didn't have an adapter with me. I suppose a Dominator on the Trick Flow would get close to the Wilson intake. Probably get over the 700 mark anyway.
 
Ahhhh I was curious about the carb on the tf intake. that is just eye opening, you can be leaving a lot on the table by not having the correct intake. Im not an engine builder, but I just didn't expect all off the shelf intakes to be such a restriction to these heads.
What I think is really weird is the intake shootout that was done by frieburger a few years ago. It was bizzare how close the intakes were.
 
Old Man Mopar said:
Thanks Andy. 715 HP - Over the hump! Did the torque stay? Spacer? Open or 4-hole in either case? Tapered?

Of course you know all of that power is coming from those darn rocker arms nobody else has anywhere - LOL.
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I always use a tapered spacer under the carb. I've given up even trying open spacers or four hole spacers. I used a 2 inch tapered spacer from Wilson under the Dominator and a 1 inch tapered spacer from Trick Flow under the 4150 carb.
 
jamesdart said:
Ahhhh I was curious about the carb on the tf intake. that is just eye opening, you can be leaving a lot on the table by not having the correct intake. Im not an engine builder, but I just didn't expect all off the shelf intakes to be such a restriction to these heads.
What I think is really weird is the intake shootout that was done by frieburger a few years ago. It was bizzare how close the intakes were.
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Porting the intake is usually worth 20 to 30 hp on a race type engine. Most guys don't get their intakes ported since it is expensive, but the cast intakes leave a lot of power on the table. For a retail customer Wilson would charge about $1400 to do the porting that they did on my M1 intake. Most bracket guys aren't going to spend that kind of money on the intake manifold.
 
If you had to choose, do you think an unported M1 with a 4500 will be as good as the TFS with the 4150?

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Just wondering, if those ported intakes make so much more power why doesn't someone just cast them with
those dimensions?

Even if you still had to go in and make them smoother it would beat spending an extra $1400 per manifold!
($1700 total including the cost of the manifold itself).
 
Depends on what you're doing with the engine. If it is a drag race car and you want the most power out of it then i'd go with the M1 4500 intake and a Dominator carb. Any sort of street driving or street/strip type of use I'd gladly give up the few hp and run the TF intake with a 4150 carb.

Good question on the ported intake. Mopar Performance just made this intake too small for an engine like mine. They must have designed it for a stock 400 engine. Some of the aftermarket intakes are made bigger. For example, Indy did a 440-3X intake which is designed for 572 engines. But yeah, most of the time the intakes are made way smaller than they need to be for higher power combos.
 
Any input about core shift on the trick flow intake? Are the ports any closer then other aftermarket intakes?
 
The Trick Flow intake that I have is very nice. Very good surface finish and the ports seem to be fairly close. They are undersize by 1/16th or more of an inch on all sides.

I wish TF would CNC port match their intakes. They have the CNC code so they could make the intakes a perfect match to their heads. But an average guy with good tools should be able to open the ports up to the gasket.
 
I know my 4150 m1, the ports are terrible. They are off like 3/16" from one side compared to the other
 
jamesdart said:
I know my 4150 m1, the ports are terrible. They are off like 3/16" from one side compared to the other
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I doubt that 1 1/16" smaller will make a hill of beans diff. to gasket matched, unless a person is hunting every last .0001 on a dragstrip.
 
Here is Mancini Racing MRE roller rocker, 1.6 ratio, made by Harland Sharp, but a budget version of their full roller rocker. According to a forum moderator on the dodge charger forum these rockers are good for up to 400 lb open spring pressure and hold up well. These MRE rockers do not have the needle bearing on the rocker shaft, so they are like Crane Gold rockers in that respect.
With valve closed the rocker roller tip contacted approx the center of the valve stem as shown in the photo. Roller contact then moved toward the exhaust side and started back at about .40 lift. Contact was approx centered on the valve stem at .650 lift.
Looks good to go.
 

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femtnmax said:
Here is Mancini Racing MRE roller rocker, 1.6 ratio, made by Harland Sharp, but a budget version of their full roller rocker. According to a forum moderator on the dodge charger forum these rockers are good for up to 400 lb open spring pressure and hold up well. These MRE rockers do not have the needle bearing on the rocker shaft, so they are like Crane Gold rockers in that respect.
With valve closed the rocker roller tip contacted approx the center of the valve stem as shown in the photo. Roller contact then moved toward the exhaust side and started back at about .40 lift. Contact was approx centered on the valve stem at .650 lift.
Looks good to go.
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What push rods are you guys using, I just picked up these rockers up today as well.
 
I'm going to try a tunnel ram next time I get this engine on the dyno. We'll see how far these Trick Flow heads can go right out of the box.

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New picture with the billet valve covers. Next step is to pull a cylinder head and ship it to T&D to get some rocker arms made.

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