I stopped by the old alignment shop but their guy retired and they can’t find anybody to replace him . They suggested the shop around the corner. I took the car in and after removing all my trim rings they said they couldn’t do it as their rear wheel fixture interferes with the body. Their machine won’t work without the rear wheel fixtures in place. They eyeballed my current rough alignment and said it didn’t look too bad. The car drives straight. It looks like I will be doing my own alignment this winter.
Tried to get an alignment done
- Thread starter 1MeanA
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Are you "able?" I am 77, and could do it again. There's LOTS of info on the internet and right here about equipment needed, which ain't that much, and how to do it.
There's only a few adjustments, unless some weird thing, you suspect unibody damage that "unsquares" the thing, or the rear axle out of true, etc.
Set the ride height
Rattle the caster / camber in
Set the tow, center the wheel, drive it, and recheck
With the huge, HUGE variety of tire/ wheel sizes and styles, for an outfit with an allegedly modern machine to tell you they can't rig their gear on your rear wheels is pretty troubleing.
There's only a few adjustments, unless some weird thing, you suspect unibody damage that "unsquares" the thing, or the rear axle out of true, etc.
Set the ride height
Rattle the caster / camber in
Set the tow, center the wheel, drive it, and recheck
With the huge, HUGE variety of tire/ wheel sizes and styles, for an outfit with an allegedly modern machine to tell you they can't rig their gear on your rear wheels is pretty troubleing.
The fixture is setup for all the new cars where the tops of the tires are exposed. They could have rotated the jig 90 degrees but they didn’t know how to recalibrate the machine. I can deal with camber and castor is maxed so I just have to read up a bit more on the rest.
MoparLeo
NRA BENEFACTOR LEVEL LIFE MEMBER
Alignment equipment is also meat to align cars without staggered rims and tires. You gave no information about what you are attempting to have adjusted.
The reason for rear alignment gauges is to measure Thrust Angle.
The difference between the centerline of the chassis and the centerline of the rear axle.
If you have ever seen a vehicle, mostly trucks go down the highway looking crooked from the rear. One side looks to be sticking out, you are seeing an extreme amount of thrust angle.
With a few exceptions a stock vehicle will have the same size and offset tires and wheels on all 4 corners.
They also need to be the same size, brand and model of tires on each axle.
The reason for rear alignment gauges is to measure Thrust Angle.
The difference between the centerline of the chassis and the centerline of the rear axle.
If you have ever seen a vehicle, mostly trucks go down the highway looking crooked from the rear. One side looks to be sticking out, you are seeing an extreme amount of thrust angle.
With a few exceptions a stock vehicle will have the same size and offset tires and wheels on all 4 corners.
They also need to be the same size, brand and model of tires on each axle.
Actually I take some issue with this. I used to think the same way, but many rigs have different tire track widths front to rear, and it is easy, if you are viewing the rig "off center" a little bit, to conclude that it is "dog tracking." EG sometimes you can prove this to yourself, if, example, you think it is tracking off to the left, then steer your vehicle a bit to the right, and you might find that it appears to be tracking right!!!
I first found this way back following my buddy in his 70 Chev K20, in the 70's. He had 12X16.5's on it, and you would SWEAR that it dog tracked. But it didn't
Alignments on older vehicles is becoming a lost art. Nowadays, "set the toe and let it go" has become the norm, and if anymore needs done than that, you are usually SOL.
See this:
Alignment at home and aftermarket UCAS too.
I'm not a trained mechanic but I figured it out. I've done 6 cars now and they all drive quite well.
I've been doing it at home over 20 years.
I got lucky a few years back. I scored some Ammco turning plates, an old Ammco caster camber gauge, and even a mirror/ lighted toe gauge, which is too clumsy to use and unreliable with it's magnets for the front hubs.
I got the car up on my car trailer and jacked it around until level. That, for me, makes a GREAT work platform, as I can kneel down on a pad and reach under there.
You don't need a caster / camber gauge, you only need an accurate tilt gauge, and you can buy all kinds of them nowadays. You can CALculate caster, which is really, what the caster gauges are doing.
I got the car up on my car trailer and jacked it around until level. That, for me, makes a GREAT work platform, as I can kneel down on a pad and reach under there.
You don't need a caster / camber gauge, you only need an accurate tilt gauge, and you can buy all kinds of them nowadays. You can CALculate caster, which is really, what the caster gauges are doing.
I've done bonehead alignments for years on my junker cars with cheap tires but the Charger was the first one that I aligned with the Longacre gauge and toe plates. The 18" tires are too expensive to leave to chance. 200 Treadwear tires will wear out a lot quicker if the toe is out of whack.
I'm not into just long tire life, I want the car to handle better than average and you can't get there with a bad alignment.
I'm not into just long tire life, I want the car to handle better than average and you can't get there with a bad alignment.
Almost every single modern alignment machine has reflective 'targets', & you can't just turn the the clamping fixtures 90°, all (4) get mounted & the whole vehicle gets rolled backwards or forwards a certain amount & then back to the original position. This memorizes the runout & position in space relative to the beam heads on the equipment fixed up front. Even setting up My K111 Hunter where You do a 3-point runout on each wheel individually is a chore with a '67-'76 Dart wheel lip & a Sure-Grip, have to lift car by the body/frame just to have enough room to turn them for that 3-pt. compensation, & You have to make sure the clamp fixtures are parallel on both rear wheels. Can't do a rollout with a new machine like that, at all,...some do have a 'non-thrust' selection that doesn't require the rear sensors/targets, but not all, ....& good luck finding a modern tech that knows or cares how to get there & use it. Just talking to You about it is costing them $$$, most are flat-rate, & fussing w/Your old crap is simply losing money to them....'cause it is.
*EDIT* I did align a buddy's tubbed '67 GT on the target-style John Bean at the dealership while I was still there, the targets can be rotated a certain amount on the clamping fixtures, but getting them mounted vertical & sync'd was a major PITA while having just enough room for the roll-out......yes, I lost My ***.....
*EDIT* I did align a buddy's tubbed '67 GT on the target-style John Bean at the dealership while I was still there, the targets can be rotated a certain amount on the clamping fixtures, but getting them mounted vertical & sync'd was a major PITA while having just enough room for the roll-out......yes, I lost My ***.....
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Dartswinger70
Well-Known Member
I aligned my Dart Swinger about 20 years ago. I worked at a Ford dealer and at the time they were cool about letting us use the shop on our time. It was a Hunter machine common for the period I beleive with the camera lens heads. What I recall was the specs for a 1970 Dart werent in the database and I had to get a Chilton manual and manually enter my numbers in.I dont recall the numbers exactly but there was an older mechanic there at the time he told me " set the toe a half degree positive" this guy would be about 75 now. Sadly youd need at least a 75 year old mechanic those are the guys that worked on these cars or a knowledgable 55 year old alignment tech. keep this in mind if going to a shop, young guys 89% of the time are going to not know and lie and bs you.
67CBodyGuy
Well-Known Member
Aren't the specs for our old cars written up for bias tires? Does having radials change anything? Like you probably want more camber and castor than the bias tires could tolerate?
I gave him the SKOSH chart and highlighted 'typ performance street'. The numbers were similar to what he had come up with. Of course no one has heard of SKOSH as its a Mopar thing.
Yes, radials will tolerate a wider range of adjustment before they get a bad wear pattern into the tires. Therefore, you can typically increase the camber and toe angles a "skosh" more than recommended to get more "modern" or "aggressive" alignment angles.
Typical set up for my cars is max positive caster up to 5*, 0-1/2* negative camber, and 1/8 to 1/16 inch of toe in depending on how new the components are.
Typical set up for my cars is max positive caster up to 5*, 0-1/2* negative camber, and 1/8 to 1/16 inch of toe in depending on how new the components are.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
The factory spec for A-bodies is 0* to Neg 1* caster, - just like the front wheels on a shopping buggy, absolutely NO directional stability, wobbbly at best.
Skosh chart is a great help on all vehicles.
I prefer a little more caster (not a tire wear angle) passenger side to compensate for "road crown".
Skosh chart is a great help on all vehicles.
I prefer a little more caster (not a tire wear angle) passenger side to compensate for "road crown".
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Homemade slip plates and string the first time. I've since picked up some period correct tools that make it easier.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
yeah i would like some slip plates.. but can get by without them... i was shocked how good my first alignment drove.. i need to redo it since i made some changes though
matthon
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I did a home alignment, it drove straight and true, could let go of the wheel.
Did 2,500 miles and noticed the inside of the front tires wearing a bit.
Took it to a shop to check it. I was close, no duh, but everything was adjusted.
What type of alignment fixture is this?
Did 2,500 miles and noticed the inside of the front tires wearing a bit.
Took it to a shop to check it. I was close, no duh, but everything was adjusted.
What type of alignment fixture is this?
Mine drives fine in the city just maxing out camber and caster and eyeballing toe in. The steering is a little vague in turns though. I'm going to give the string method a try but I have a hard time believing this will be accurate within 1/16".
Icetech
Well-Known Member
maxing out camber? i went with .5* as much caster as possible though
Icetech
Well-Known Member
Love that green
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