TTI / 10.5 clutch

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J

jahsh

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I noticed that the TTI thread is gone - which I felt was pretty important info. Is there archives to this board?

The main reason why I wanted to look back was to see if there was a name of somebody specifically at TTI that should be contacted about questions.

I think I have given up on trying to get a hyd.TOB to work with my clutch and Doug's headers. So I want to start investigating more info on if anybody has run the TTI's with the 10.5 clutch and manual fork/z-bar.
 
There is a search function at the top of the page. I wish somebody would find a good solution to the headers & 10.5 clutch situation. I don't know their names, but I talked to somebody at both TTI & Doug's & was pretty much told that they can't take into account every possible swap & they know their headers will fit with the stock clutch & bellhousing. Personally, I like the way the Doug's headers fit because they don't seem to run as close to the brake line that crosses over on the firewall. I wouldn't mind having a set, but I've been following the posts here about them if other people can't make them work with a 10.5" clutch I don't see where I'd have any better luck. I keep thinking maybe I should just build my car with the 30 year old Cyclone fenderwell headers I have. I know they're not as well made as the TTIs & Doug's but they do fit well & if I decide that I can't live with them I'll take things back apart, patch the fenderwells & adapt some type of manifold.

If somebody has a PDF or some other kind of copy of the Doug's installation instructions, I'd like to see them.
Nevermind. I found a PDF of the instructions. I just finished reading them & they don't even mention the clutch linkage. Not one word about it. I'm guessing the clutch linkage must not be a problem at all with the original small clutch. Amazing how much that little difference in clutch diameter can screw things up!
 
'64 Cuda said:
I I'm guessing the clutch linkage must not be a problem at all with the original small clutch. Amazing how much that little difference in clutch diameter can screw things up!
Click to expand...

in my situation, it's was not the bellhousing itself that is a problem, it's that the clutch fork is longer on the 10.5 inch clutch and hits the tubs.
 
How much would the fork have to change to work? Would it be possible to mix and match parts to make it work? I think there is more than one type of clutch fork. I think the OD bellhousing uses a different one. Or maybe you could adapt the 9.5" fork to work? What about cutting & shortening your existing fork & relocating the attachment of the rod to the Z bar? Can you possibly post pics that would show where the interference is, & also maybe of the different forks? Maybe a call to Brewer's or Passon could solve this. It's worth a try.
 
Sorry to hear about all the problems Josh. Too bad there is not a way for you to engineer your own clutch fork. It would not be too hard to make your own Z-bar either. Hope things work out.
 
Josh, i think i posted a pic of my hyd. clutch. can you shorten the fork and use the hyd. pull cylinder? i shortened the fork on my p.u. to clear the collectors and all is good. how much do you need to lose?
i think pedal effort will go up as the fork gets shorter but a diaphram pressure plate is easier on the leg anyhow. keep us updated, ok?

clutch slave cylinder.jpg
 
Where did you get the pull type slave cylinder? Maybe this would work using the 10.5 clutch & an early A fork? It would be nice to have a simple solution. I'm sure you've probably posted it before, but can you give a link to more info on your clutch master installation?
 
I've been looking at the Brewer's web site & found what I hope will be useful info.


CF106 CLUTCH FORK 1968-Up A-BODY SMALL BLOCK Details


Reconditioned A-body small block clutch fork, fits 1968-1976. 12 1/2" overall length (see CF702 clutch fork and FP484 fork pivot for converting 1963-66 A-body cars to 10.5" bellhousing). As available.


CF485 CLUTCH FORK 63-66 A-BODY Details


Reconditioned small block 1963-66 A-body clutch fork, used with BH081 & BH523 9.5" bellhousings) overall length 10 1/2". (see CF702 clutch fork and FP484 fork pivot for converting 1963-66 A-body cars to 10.5" bellhousing). As available.

CF702 CLUTCH FORK 1966-UP B/E/1967-69 A BIG BLOCK/1970-4 E/1971-4 B SM & BIG BLOCK Details


Reconditioned original clutch fork, fits 1966-up B/E-body/1967-69 A-body big block applications, and 1970-74 E-body/1971-74 B-body big & small blocks (also used with FP636 fork pivot when converting 1963-66 A-body cars to 10.5" bellhousing). 10 7/8" overall length. As available.

(some of these parts are also available new, I just didn't see the need to copy info twice.)

If I'm reading everything right it looks like the early A Bodies used a 10 1/2" fork

The Later A Bodies used a 12 1/2" fork.

There is also available a 10 7/8" fork.

I converted my 64 to a 10.5" clutch about 30 years ago so I'm going from memory & things I've seen posted on the internet. When I did it I used the bellhousing & fork from a later A body. I used a different Z bar (I just looked at what the dealer had & picked the closest one) & narrowed it to fit the car. I'm guessing I had to narrow it because the fork was longer. IIRC, the original Z bar had a funny step to the side on the bottom leg so the adjusting rod would line up correctly with the fork, but I'm not sure. The new one I used didn't have this step. I also cobbled together a (functional but really crappy looking) pivot ball setup to mount to the bellhousing.

It looks like you could use the 10.5" bellhousing along with the 10 7/8" fork & gain over 1 1/2" clearance at the end of the clutck fork. A different fork pivot & a different Z bar with shorter or longer arms might be necessary to keep the leverage ratios correct so the TO bearing travel would be the same. Have you looked into this? Since you have first hand knowledge of the clearance problem, you would be the best one to know whether the 1 1/2" would be enough to make this work. Let us know if there's a chance.
 
I have been running a 10.5 inch Clutch in my 65 Barracuda for several years. I modified a Z Bar by cutting it in the middle, to shorten it, and then realigning it so the levers were positioned correctly. When it was aligned correctly; welded it back together. I use the original body mount location and built a pivot to connect at the proper point on the Bellhousing. I found that I could use the original (shorter) 273 clutch fork and bellhousing pivot with a diaphragm clutch but with a heavy duty Borg & Beck style clutch, I had to use the Longer fork. I noticed at the junk yard the longer fork was angled in a downward direction which will allow it to be installed into the early A body cars too; which is what I now have in the Barracuda.

Hope this helps
 
Yeah, 1.5" might be enough. What I would like to do is mock everything up outside of the car to deal with all this. Might be something work working towards.

A call to Brewer's is never a bad idea either. Thanks to everybody about the suggestions so far - hopefully in-time I can give some definitive information.
 
Modifying my Barracuda to accommodate a 10.5 in clutch was time consuming but there is no economical High Performance 9.5 inch option available any more. I found that utilizing the normal Z-bar location was the best solution but required fabricating a bellhousing pivot bracket. When I first performed the upgrade, I decided that modifying the stock Z bar was out of the question as these parts are hard to replace. I was able to salvage other Z bars and modify them as described above. I made two different Z bars one for a diaphragm clutch which used the original 273 (shorter) clutch fork and one for a Borg & Beck clutch (10.95 inch MP scallop clutch) which uses the standard (longer) 10.5 inch clutch fork.

I mocked up the bellhousing pivot to be square and level to the A-body fender pivot and measured the required Z bar length to fit between. It’s not necessary to modify the clutch pedal linkage fork on the Z bar but the clutch fork linkage must be fabricated to fit as close to the bellhousing as possible (while the pedal fork is attached to the actuator). After completing this work, I ran the 273 with stock exhaust for a year or so then upgraded to 360 with headers with no more interference issues than with stock 9.5 inch clutch.

I am currently running spitfire “shorte” Headers not TTI because TTI’s weren’t available when it upgraded my engine but the stock exhaust opening was only changed slightly by the 10.5 inch clutch upgrade and the payoff is an affordable performance clutch and well worth the effort.

This mod took me a month or two to complete

Good Luck
 
Sounds like you went about it with a little more thought than I did. We just bolted the 10.5" clutch & bellhousing into the car & then "made it work." I think it only took me & a friend or two about three days or so, working on it part time & working full time jobs. I know that once we had everything in there we had a problem of a chattering noise when the clutch pedal was pushed all of the way down. We figured it was the TO bearing pushing the fingers on the pressure plate so far that they touched the springs in the hub of the disc. We finally got around it with some fine tuning of the adjustment & never had another problem with it. I also remember that with the original clutch the adjusting rod was only about 4" or 5" long. With the 10.5" clutch the adjusting rod was about twice as long. This might have been because we screwed up the relationship of the arms on the Z bar, but I know we tried to put them back like they were before we cut it. I always ran this with a Borg & Beck pressure plate & it worked flawlessly. If the 10.5" clutch & linkage can be made to work with the Doug's headers, then I'll probably have a few decisions made for me.
 
See this post for pix of the setup in my 66 Barracuda.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=162969&postcount=4

I beleive the fork and z bar are both the original 273 pieces. I did not do the original swap over to the 10.5" clutch. I just refined what was already there. The fork is definitely shorter than other forks I've seen that came out of 10.5" clutch bellhousings.

I think you should mock it up and see what will or will not work. Do you have the Doug's headers so you can test fit everything? I've been leaning toward using Spitfires to avoid the hassles, but I hear they don't fit Edelbrock heads which I plan to install in the future.
 
Lee, your setup is very similar to mine but there is some angle between clutch fork and Z-bar arm. I tried to keep the arm as close to the bellhousing as possible and inline with the fork. The placement makes installation of the bellhousing bracket difficult but preserves precious little space on the driver’s side for exhaust.

I cut the Z Bar in half to get the alignment on the lower Z bar arm as far back as possible (which was like the original Z Bar). The Z bars that I salvaged were from trucks or vans as fewer manual shift cars come into the junk yards these days.

Diaphram clutches require an extra spring like Lee’s pictures show pulling the fork back (overcenter spring tends to make the pedal stay on the floor board sometimes).
 
Blues65 said:
Modifying my Barracuda to accommodate a 10.5 in clutch was time consuming but there is no economical High Performance 9.5 inch option available any more. I found that utilizing the normal Z-bar location was the best solution but required fabricating a bellhousing pivot bracket. When I first performed the upgrade, I decided that modifying the stock Z bar was out of the question as these parts are hard to replace. I was able to salvage other Z bars and modify them as described above. I made two different Z bars one for a diaphragm clutch which used the original 273 (shorter) clutch fork and one for a Borg & Beck clutch (10.95 inch MP scallop clutch) which uses the standard (longer) 10.5 inch clutch fork.

I mocked up the bellhousing pivot to be square and level to the A-body fender pivot and measured the required Z bar length to fit between. It’s not necessary to modify the clutch pedal linkage fork on the Z bar but the clutch fork linkage must be fabricated to fit as close to the bellhousing as possible (while the pedal fork is attached to the actuator). After completing this work, I ran the 273 with stock exhaust for a year or so then upgraded to 360 with headers with no more interference issues than with stock 9.5 inch clutch.

I am currently running spitfire “shorte” Headers not TTI because TTI’s weren’t available when it upgraded my engine but the stock exhaust opening was only changed slightly by the 10.5 inch clutch upgrade and the payoff is an affordable performance clutch and well worth the effort.

This mod took me a month or two to complete

Good Luck
Click to expand...

Doesn't Brewer's also sell kits that will include a modified z-bar and pivot that will fit a 10.5 clutch? I looked on the website and couldn't find it listed, but I swear I remember hearing about it.
 
Most of the parts are available from Brewer's, but I don't know about a "kit". If you told them what you wanted to do they could probably box up the parts in their sleep. To find the parts on their website you have to look them up individually. I think if you look up the forks, the description will tell you what parts work together, giving you the Brewer's part number for the pivot, Z bar, & what bellhousings they will fit. You'll also need the service kit to get the internal parts for the Z bar. I don't think the parts come with the bar. I also don't think anybody currently reproduces the pivot ball & mount that mounts to the frame. You might find one used. I read that it is the same part used on the /6 A bodies, I think '63-'66. There has to have been a lot of 6 cylinder 3 speed A bodies made back then, but how hard the part is to find now, I have no idea.
 
I do not believe I could have used my original Z bar for the 10.5 inch clutch upgrade and I do not believe anyone sells a 10.5 conversion kit for the early A’s. I know Brewers sells the early fork and most people (Mancini Racing, ect) carry the rebuild kit.
 
Guy's I have the Brewers modified clutch fork for my 64. I'm using the 10.5 bell housing behind my 273. The fork is consideribly shorter than the stock fork. I have already mocked up the fork/Z bar and TTI driver side header and I can't see where there would be interferance. I'll try and take some pics when I'm under the car again.
 
dart4forte said:
Guy's I have the Brewers modified clutch fork for my 64. I'm using the 10.5 bell housing behind my 273. The fork is consideribly shorter than the stock fork. I have already mocked up the fork/Z bar and TTI driver side header and I can't see where there would be interferance. I'll try and take some pics when I'm under the car again.
Click to expand...

This is great news - pics would be FANTASTIC!! Just to confirm - this is the fork you got from Brewers, correct?

http://www.brewersperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=CF702
 
dart4forte said:
Guy's I have the Brewers modified clutch fork for my 64. I'm using the 10.5 bell housing behind my 273. The fork is consideribly shorter than the stock fork. I have already mocked up the fork/Z bar and TTI driver side header and I can't see where there would be interferance. I'll try and take some pics when I'm under the car again.
Click to expand...

Do you have the part number for the Brewer's fork that you used? Never mind, did not see there was a page 2.
 
Blues65 said:
Diaphram clutches require an extra spring like Lee’s pictures show pulling the fork back (overcenter spring tends to make the pedal stay on the floor board sometimes).
Click to expand...

I actually completely removed the overcenter spring. The larger spring in the picture returns the pedal & linkage and the smaller one keeps tension on the pushrod, removing the slack and also keeps it from falling out.
 
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