Upper Control Arm disaster

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Stihl011

Stihl011

FABO Gold Member
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I've been looking all over for upper control arms to replace the upper control arms in my 68 barracuda (drum brakes).

Its been a disaster. I tried the QA1 tubular control arms. The first set broke almost immediately, which I sent back. The replacement set didn't fit, they hit the bracket holding the arms in. QA1 told me to grind down the bracket. I told them no way and returned them.

I then bought what was advertised to be OEM style control arms for an A-Body. Turns out not so much. After googling the part number on the bag after I got them (not the part number that was used from where I ordered by the way, the part number of the actual manufacturer) a different site spelled out that the part is actually for installing mid 70s B/E style disc brakes on your A body...The ball joint is too big. So now I will have to return them too if I still can.

Does anyone know where I can find stock-style stamped upper control arms for a 1968 barracuda, with drum brakes? Every time this happens I lose another weekend, and summer is coming up soon.
 
Are you a purist, or is there some other reason you're trying to keep the drum brakes? You like fixing wrecked front clips?

You'll find them here, in the classifieds. Most guys trash them. Put in a wanted add and you'll be golden in twenty four hours.
 
How did you succeed in breaking a set of QA1 control arms?

And, it sounds like you've had several sets of arms not fit correctly. Are you sure it's not a a problem with your mounts? What happened to your original control arms?

Either you're the unluckiest guy on the planet, or something isn't right...
 
I think a parts wanted ad here would yield OEM upper arms for your 68 a-body.
 
Any original control arm from a 65-72 A body car should work.

I may have a pair of used ones if you are looking for a pair. I threw a lot of stuff away when I moved 2 years ago.
 
There should be tons of A body small ball joint uppers around...67-72 covers a lot of production.

Whats your goal?
Stock originality?
Upgrades to brakes and/or suspension?
 
FYI
Any A body upper control arm from 1962 to 1972 are ALL the same thing, and interchange on all the cars.
 
72bluNblu said:
How did you succeed in breaking a set of QA1 control arms?

And, it sounds like you've had several sets of arms not fit correctly. Are you sure it's not a a problem with your mounts? What happened to your original control arms?

Either you're the unluckiest guy on the planet, or something isn't right...
Click to expand...
 
probably both. I was using a rubber mallet to pound the QA1 arms into place. I hit that little tab where the bumper is supposed to hit. There was very little weld on either side and it popped right off. I looked at the matching one an it looked like it had a lot more weld on it.

The original arms I wanted to replace because I was unable to get the ball joints out, and also unable to push one of the bushings all the way out, and slightly bent the arm doing so with a hydraulic press, only after buying and breaking one of these tools (stripped the damned threaded rod) trying to get the bushing out with one of those hand tools.
www.manciniracing.com/unfrsuprotok.html

I told you, its been a disaster :)
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys. If everyone trashes their old arms, I must be the only person looking to not upgrade them in some way.

I wanted the original breaks mostly cause I just bought it and wanted to drive it around safely for a few months (the suspension was probably unsafe). I'm certainly not married to originality, just didn't want to take on putting in new brakes just yet.

You can probably tell I don't work on cars a whole lot, sorta my first foray into it.
 
Stihl011 said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys. If everyone trashes their old arms, I must be the only person looking to not upgrade them in some way.

I wanted the original breaks mostly cause I just bought it and wanted to drive it around safely for a few months (the suspension was probably unsafe). I'm certainly not married to originality, just didn't want to take on putting in new brakes just yet.

You can probably tell I don't work on cars a whole lot, sorta my first foray into it.
Click to expand...

Try @barracudakid or @whitepunkonnitro for the upper control arms...
 
Stihl011 said:
probably both. I was using a rubber mallet to pound the QA1 arms into place. I hit that little tab where the bumper is supposed to hit. There was very little weld on either side and it popped right off. I looked at the matching one an it looked like it had a lot more weld on it.

The original arms I wanted to replace because I was unable to get the ball joints out, and also unable to push one of the bushings all the way out, and slightly bent the arm doing so with a hydraulic press, only after buying and breaking one of these tools (stripped the damned threaded rod) trying to get the bushing out with one of those hand tools.
www.manciniracing.com/unfrsuprotok.html

I told you, its been a disaster :)
Click to expand...

Holy cow. Well, you shouldn't need to "pound" UCA's in with a rubber mallet. Or any kind of mallet really. If they don't fit, you need to look at the UCA mounts and see what's going on. The mounts can get bent a little, usually what happens is they get drawn in when the UCA bolts are tightened so sometimes they may need to be spread apart slightly for the UCA to fit in properly. I wouldn't call knocking off a bump stop tab with a mallet "breaking" a set of QA1 UCA's either. Maybe you got one that was a little short on weld, but that's not normal use either. It's just a little landing plate, and the load it's supposed to see pushes it against the UCA, so it doesn't need to be all that strong. QA1 makes great stuff, they're one of the better companies for aftermarket suspension parts.

As for grinding clearance, it's a pretty common thing to need to do with any tubular UCA. It doesn't hurt anything, the mounts just weren't designed for a tubular arm and they're not even all the same from the factory anyway, some are more restrictive than others. Something like this usually takes care of it, you want to take off as little as possible but anything up to the mark indicated won't really weaken anything.
Dart UCA copy.jpg


The stock UCA's are pretty flexible, so, they have to be completely supported in the area around the bushing when you're using a press. More than a few people have found this out the hard way by bending the UCA.

The UCA's are not drum or disk brake specific, as hemi71x pointed out. In 1973 they were upgraded to a larger ball joint (the same ones used earlier on larger B/E bodies), but there isn't a "drum brake" UCA. 1967-1972 used small ball joints, 1973+ used large ball joints. But otherwise the UCA's were the same.

Stihl011 said:
Wow, thanks for all the replies guys. If everyone trashes their old arms, I must be the only person looking to not upgrade them in some way.

I wanted the original breaks mostly cause I just bought it and wanted to drive it around safely for a few months (the suspension was probably unsafe). I'm certainly not married to originality, just didn't want to take on putting in new brakes just yet.

You can probably tell I don't work on cars a whole lot, sorta my first foray into it.
Click to expand...

The stock drum brakes may not be all that safe themselves, especially in modern traffic. Especially if they're 9" drums and you're used to driving modern cars.

Stock UCA's with stock UCA bushings won't give you enough positive caster for a proper alignment if you're using radial tires. Moog k7103 offset bushings can be used to get more positive caster, although in most cases even with the offset bushings the best you can do is about +3*, which is about the minimum you want with radial tires. That's why so many people go to tubular UCA's, because most of them have additional caster built in. Food for thought.

And, sorry, but it sounds to me like your disaster has been mostly self-made. If you're not very experienced working on older cars, you may want to slow down and ask someone or consult the factory manual before you break out the mallets and presses. Nothing wrong with doing it yourself and learning, that's awesome. But it's pretty easy to screw stuff up if you don't use the right technique or start beating on stuff with mallets. Most stuff can be replaced with aftermarket parts, but there are still some parts that you can screw up that aren't easily obtained.

You can download a 1968 shop manual here...http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1968_Plymouth_Service_Manual.zip
 
72bluNblu said:
Holy cow. Well, you shouldn't need to "pound" UCA's in with a rubber mallet. Or any kind of mallet really. If they don't fit, you need to look at the UCA mounts and see what's going on. The mounts can get bent a little, usually what happens is they get drawn in when the UCA bolts are tightened so sometimes they may need to be spread apart slightly for the UCA to fit in properly. I wouldn't call knocking off a bump stop tab with a mallet "breaking" a set of QA1 UCA's either. Maybe you got one that was a little short on weld, but that's not normal use either. It's just a little landing plate, and the load it's supposed to see pushes it against the UCA, so it doesn't need to be all that strong. QA1 makes great stuff, they're one of the better companies for aftermarket suspension parts.

As for grinding clearance, it's a pretty common thing to need to do with any tubular UCA. It doesn't hurt anything, the mounts just weren't designed for a tubular arm and they're not even all the same from the factory anyway, some are more restrictive than others. Something like this usually takes care of it, you want to take off as little as possible but anything up to the mark indicated won't really weaken anything.
View attachment 1715162335

The stock UCA's are pretty flexible, so, they have to be completely supported in the area around the bushing when you're using a press. More than a few people have found this out the hard way by bending the UCA.

The UCA's are not drum or disk brake specific, as hemi71x pointed out. In 1973 they were upgraded to a larger ball joint (the same ones used earlier on larger B/E bodies), but there isn't a "drum brake" UCA. 1967-1972 used small ball joints, 1973+ used large ball joints. But otherwise the UCA's were the same.



The stock drum brakes may not be all that safe themselves, especially in modern traffic. Especially if they're 9" drums and you're used to driving modern cars.

Stock UCA's with stock UCA bushings won't give you enough positive caster for a proper alignment if you're using radial tires. Moog k7103 offset bushings can be used to get more positive caster, although in most cases even with the offset bushings the best you can do is about +3*, which is about the minimum you want with radial tires. That's why so many people go to tubular UCA's, because most of them have additional caster built in. Food for thought.

And, sorry, but it sounds to me like your disaster has been mostly self-made. If you're not very experienced working on older cars, you may want to slow down and ask someone or consult the factory manual before you break out the mallets and presses. Nothing wrong with doing it yourself and learning, that's awesome. But it's pretty easy to screw stuff up if you don't use the right technique or start beating on stuff with mallets. Most stuff can be replaced with aftermarket parts, but there are still some parts that you can screw up that aren't easily obtained.

You can download a 1968 shop manual here...http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1968_Plymouth_Service_Manual.zip
Click to expand...

Thanks for the constructive criticism, seriously. Especially that stuff about stock UCAs not giving proper alignment with radial tires. That's not something I would have ever considered. If its ok to cut into the brackets of my car I'll do it. It just seemed like a real bad idea to me. A little background on me: I'm an engineer, and I know things are engineered for a reason. My father said (also an engineer) "if you are forcing it, you are doing it wrong." I've found from experience that that is true. I'm not pretending to know anything specifically about cars, and I don't mean this response to sound arrogant.

I have downloaded and been using that manual extensively.

I won't deny my disaster could be self-made, I've certainly been learning a lot. Probably more than any of the online vendors that will sell you "*** for your 19XX barracuda". The thing is I don't know anyone, so it has so far been sink or swim, but mostly sink, for my bank account anyway.

But I also don't think a minor hit with a mallet should break something like that. Yes the brackets were probably bent a little, and I couldn't set it by hand, but I also wasm't pounding on it aggressively with a 8lb sledge or anything, it literally was one glancing hit. And look at it from the n00bs point of view, if I'm not super comfortable with working on a car, why would I feel comfortable cutting into my car to fit something that was supposed to be drop in. The factory manual is great, but so far all the after market installation guides have been for guys that know what they are doing, not so much guys like me.

I probably should have been on this forum a while ago.

Thanks for the help
 
I had a welded BJ on my driver side and had no issue finding a replacement here on A-Bodiesonly.

I am a purist for my 383s and got a nice unit quickly at a great price. Thanks to FABO! Just had to add my original BB disc brake stiffener ring and new bushings and BJ.
 
First off, there have been several times I have used a rubber mallet to knock a control arm into place. They should be a fairly tight fit in the mounts. It also sounds like you need some Mopar friends. Check into a local Mopar club. As far as new (used) arms go, $25/each is a good price.
 
We offer a varied of arms for your year A body. We Offer both small and large ball joint style upper arms depending on what you are doing. We do have the small upper ball joint control arms in stamp steel oem and I believe that is what you are looking for. They come ready to install with ball joints and bushings screwed and pressed into place.

Thanks
James
 
i've got a pair of a body uppers i'll sell , there still loaded with stock bushings n the small screw in ball joints . i got them with a disc set up , just pm me . will work it out .

FB_IMG_1519710201735.jpg
 
MobileCustoms said:
Curious minds want to know!
Click to expand...

Previous owner had tack welded in the ball joint. I could not see that through the dirt and after much force with a 6ft long cheeter bar it snapped the welds. I did not want to use it cause surely the threads were trash hence the welds.

Assumed after seeing the rings still in place on the bushings it had not been messed with. I was wrong and at least the UBJ on the driver side had been replaced incorrectly. Maybe they learned after that side that they were screw in and did the right correctly.

26F5D791-6CA5-4A5B-9CA4-C03AB67ACCC9.jpeg
 
Last edited:
PST said:
We offer a varied of arms for your year A body. We Offer both small and large ball joint style upper arms depending on what you are doing. We do have the small upper ball joint control arms in stamp steel oem and I believe that is what you are looking for. They come ready to install with ball joints and bushings screwed and pressed into place.

Thanks
James
Click to expand...

Hey James, I actually bought some of these from you. I bought what I thought I needed from PST. This part number. MOPAUPCA

I first got suspicious when the ball joint didn't fit into the brake support. I then noticed the ball joint was way too big.

What your site doesn't say is that this part number uses the B/E type ball joints. I found that out by searching the part number on the bag, and found a similar part number for sale elsewhere indicating that the part is for installing "B/E brakes on an A Body"

I've been meaning to pull out the one I have installed and return them, will you take them back? What are the chances you guys just sent me the wrong part, or you supplier put the wrong part in the bag.
 
My apologies I made the mistake in my previous post. We do not have the small upper ball joint control arms as of yet (1963-72). This is a new product that I have been looking into but have not made yet (its on the list). As of now we only have the later style big ball joint style (1973-76). These will work on a earlier A body but you will need to incorporate the later spindles and disc brake set up. We will take yours back for refund. I would ask that you call our customer service and they will assist you with the return.

Thanks
James
 
1969383S said:
Previous owner had tack welded in the ball joint. I could not see that through the dirt and after much force with a 6ft long cheeter bar it snapped the welds. I did not want to use it cause surely the threads were trash hence the welds.
Click to expand...
Yea....those upper ball joint threads aren't the greatest and you'll finds lots of them have been tacked at some point to insure a non slip joint. Not sure if it's a big deal if done right....but there are way smarter guys here than me to elaborate.
 
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