vacuum gauge to solve idle issue

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Dar the 4295S is on there now. See pic, hose is running to pass side port, which I believe is timed vac port. Correct? You can see dist vac can hose beside it (red plug in it)
When the eddy was on there, vac can was hooked to same.port (pass side)

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Dar the 4295S is on there now. See pic, hose is running to pass side port, which I believe is timed vac port. Correct? You can see dist vac can hose beside it (red plug in it)
When the eddy was on there, vac can was hooked to same.port (pass side)

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OK, but which port are you hooking your vacuum gauge to....hopefully not the ported one for the distributor (finger pointing). If so, that may be why you're only getting 3 in. of vacuum at idle on your gauge.
 
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Yes vac gauge is hooked to ported one. The only other port is the one for choke pulloff, which is capped on carb.
OK, but which port are you hooking your vacuum gauge to....hopefully not the ported one for the distributor (finger pointing). If so, that may be why you're only getting 3 in. of vacuum at idle on your gauge.
 
Yes vac gauge is hooked to ported one. The only other port is the one for choke pulloff, which is capped on carb.
Thats why you're only getting 3' of vacuum on your gauge at idle. Thats the ported (no/very little vac at idle) one. Try hooking the vacuum gauge to the choke pull-off port...it is full time, manifold vacuum, and will give you the correct gauge reading.
 
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Ok so hooked to choke port. Now at idle I get almost 14" HG at idle. Thats with vac can hooked back up to carb.
Max vac is 19". I didnt get rpm at that reading. Getting late here lol.
Thats why you're only getting 3' of vacuum on your gauge at idle. Thats the ported (no/very little vac at idle) one. Try hooking the vacuum gauge to the choke pull-off port...it is full time, manifold vacuum, and will give you the correct gauge reading.
 
Thanks Dar. So any idea why initial timing is so high? No heat soak, no hard start at 30*

Probably right, but are you sure your timing light is picking off the #1 plug wire? Stupid question I know, but I have seen it happen! Like I said, my 273 will kick back at 15* initial
 
Yep on #1. Verified TDC and balancer about 4 times too lol. Added marks to balancer to measure up to 45* btc timing.
Probably right, but are you sure your timing light is picking off the #1 plug wire? Stupid question I know, but I have seen it happen! Like I said, my 273 will kick back at 15* initial
 
Yeah like Dar said AJ, I was hooked to wrong port. I now have near 14" vac from choke port.
Stupid phone doesn't list reply #'s in threads (eg. post #73)
How should I fine tune timing with vac gauge?
If the M-rods are staying down at 3", then; either the springs are junk, the pistons are stuck, or 3 isn't 3,lol

I'm sticking with post #73,for now
 
Ok, I missed that; 3 wasn't 3. I'm glad I didn't say the gauge was lie-ing!

And so;
>if you were getting 5 or 3 at the spark-port then the primary throttles seem to be waaay too far open. The spark-port should be dead,zero vacuum at idle.
>But now, 14" at 775 is a good number; too good for that cam. It seems to indicate that the timing is too far advanced.
> These two are contrary, in that, they normally do not go together. So then the first thing I would do is set the Transfer port synchronization. This will get the low-speed circuit back in operation and kill the sparkport. Your Idle-Timing will likely end up around 12 to 18. But there is no telling what the idle rpm will end up at. Once the T-port is synced up, you cannot adjust the idle speed (much) with the curb-idle screw. Idle rpm will have to be set with timing and idle-air bypass.But; the valve lash will have to be known to be correct first.
>I'm struggling to figure out why your engine is not pinging with so much initial advance.(Unless the rate of advance is really slow,super-slow, or the secondaries are not opening.).
Once the T-port sync is set, the idle-timing will come out in the wash. Then you will have to engineer the power-timing and rate of advance.
And then, finally, the VA can be experimented with.

As a point of reference, the engine usually will accept 30 to 40* or perhaps a little more,of timing, at 1800 to 2500 during part throttle operation; so 25 to 30 is not a big deal with a stick-car or an auto with a loose TC. But generally, with increasing load, this has to be pulled back,to 25/30. Usually the power timing will come in at 25/28 @2500 to 3000 and could be as much as 35* by 3000 to 3600. Generally, 36* is the max for SBMs. And the less it wants, generally indicates an efficient chamber, while the more it wants, generally, indicates one less so. Notice the generous use of the word generally. Every engine/combo has it's own personality, and it's needs can change with it's environment, and it's tune.
 
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Ok, so limited time with it today. AJ, as always thanks for the reply! Next step is to do the T-port sync. I didnt want to dig into the carb until later as Im not too confident in getting it done "quickly" lol.
What I did today was install air cleaner, turn out IMS screws 2 full turns, that gave me 14" HG at choke port.
Fine tuned both independently until I got approx 15" HG, and in park idle was approx 725. Leaned out IMS(clockwise) until I got rpm to drop to approx 710 rpm in park. In gear 600 rpm. At this point IMS screws were 1 3/8" turns out.
Initial timing 25*(vac plugged)
50* All in at 3500 rpm(vac plugged)
And at 2000 rpm with vac can hooked back up, approx 60*(approximation as my tab and balancer doesnt read that high accurately.)
Im not sure exactly how to analyze these readings, but I will take a stab at it later.
Oh more info, Carter 4295S has 16-405 factory metering rods(3step). Rebuild kit didnt come with new jets, so those are originals too. As are the springs, but I dont think they are the issue as it idle they are all the way down?? Correct me if Im wrong.
Dist has 7r stamped on vac can arm, so thats 14* of vac advance correct?

Thanks again!
Ok, I missed that; 3 wasn't 3. I'm glad I didn't say the gauge was lie-ing!

And so;
>if you were getting 5 or 3 at the spark-port then the primary throttles seem to be waaay too far open. The spark-port should be dead,zero vacuum at idle.
>But now, 14" at 775 is a good number; too good for that cam. It seems to indicate that the timing is too far advanced.
> These two are contrary, in that, they normally do not go together. So then the first thing I would do is set the Transfer port synchronization. This will get the low-speed circuit back in operation and kill the sparkport. Your Idle-Timing will likely end up around 12 to 18. But there is no telling what the idle rpm will end up at. Once the T-port is synced up, you cannot adjust the idle speed (much) with the curb-idle screw. Idle rpm will have to be set with timing and idle-air bypass.But; the valve lash will have to be known to be correct first.
>I'm struggling to figure out why your engine is not pinging with so much initial advance.(Unless the rate of advance is really slow,super-slow, or the secondaries are not opening.).
Once the T-port sync is set, the idle-timing will come out in the wash. Then you will have to engineer the power-timing and rate of advance.
And then, finally, the VA can be experimented with.

As a point of reference, the engine usually will accept 30 to 40* or perhaps a little more,of timing, at 1800 to 2500 during part throttle operation; so 25 to 30 is not a big deal with a stick-car or an auto with a loose TC. But generally, with increasing load, this has to be pulled back,to 25/30. Usually the power timing will come in at 25/28 @2500 to 3000 and could be as much as 35* by 3000 to 3600. Generally, 36* is the max for SBMs. And the less it wants, generally indicates an efficient chamber, while the more it wants, generally, indicates one less so. Notice the generous use of the word generally. Every engine/combo has it's own personality, and it's needs can change with it's environment, and it's tune.
 
Comments inside the quote
Ok, so limited time with it today. AJ, as always thanks for the reply! Next step is to do the T-port sync. I didnt want to dig into the carb until later as Im not too confident in getting it done "quickly" lol.
What I did today was install air cleaner, turn out IMS screws 2 full turns, that gave me 14" HG at choke port.
Fine tuned both independently until I got approx 15" HG, and in park idle was approx 725. Leaned out IMS(clockwise) until I got rpm to drop to approx 710 rpm in park. In gear 600 rpm. At this point IMS screws were 1 3/8" turns out. Initial timing 25*(vac plugged)50* All in at 3500 rpm(vac plugged)
Yeah, I see what you are doing, but it is just barely working.And it is only good for idling when fully warmed up. How does it take being put into gear?And how well does it take small amounts of throttle?
See; in my world you are doing it backwards. You may get to a similar place, but it's a lot more work.
And then you can see that 50 less 25 = 25* in the Dist. If your engine likes 36* (no more!, and NOT 50*) of power-timing then your idle-timing will have to be 36 less 25=11* initial. Let's talk about that for a sec.
If you retard the timing from the current 25* to the no-mods-required 11*, then the idle will slow right down and the idle vacuum will also drop. To keep the engine running, you will need to crank the speed screw in. This will run the throttle valves up the transfer slots and richen up the idle mixture. Maybe it will be too-rich now, and so you will need to close up the "IMS", some. The thing is, 1.375 turns is pretty close as it is now. But, by your own admission, you currently leaned them out from a best of 2 to the current 1.375. That's not normal. Normal in my world is slightly richened up from best lean idle( maybe 1/4T). This prevents sags on tip in, and is a big help in keeping a cold engine running without a choke. So that is what I would do.
The way that you have it now; if it takes only about a 110rpm hit when going into gear, and if it is happy at 600 in gear, and if it stays running when cold without too much baby-sitting, and if the starter doesn't kick back, and if it doesn't detonate!, (phew that's a lot of ifs), then there is no reason that you would have to retard the initial.

But, But, BUT, you cannot run 50* of power-timing! It matters not that you cannot hear detonation; there is no SBM ever built to run on pump gas that will survive 50* at full-load-WOT. I have to wonder if you know what detonation sounds like.........
So if you really want to run 25* initial, then you are going to have to modify the centrifugal advance mechanism.
Furthermore the all in by 3500 is a bit tardy. It is however pretty safe, if you are having trouble hearing or identifying Detonation. I would leave modifying that for later.

And at 2000 rpm with vac can hooked back up, approx 60*(approximation as my tab and balancer doesnt read that high accurately.) 60* may be ok or it may not, but after you limit your power timing this will change, so don't worry about it for now.
Im not sure exactly how to analyze these readings, but I will take a stab at it later.
Oh more info, Carter 4295S has 16-405 factory metering rods(3step). Rebuild kit didnt come with new jets, so those are originals too. As are the springs, but I dont think they are the issue as it idle they are all the way down?? Correct me if Im wrong. At idle, the only circuit that is supposed to be active is the slow-speed circuit, which is the transfer slots and the "IMS"
Dist has 7r stamped on vac can arm, so thats 14* of vac advance correct? Yes

Thanks again!

As always, I start with the T-port sync. It pretty much sets the idle-timing for me. But with a solid-lifter cam, I start with checking the lash.
 
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Thanks again, I didnt get a chance to pull the carb, but I had 2 Eddys, so I looked at them to make adjustments to T-ports. I played with fast idle screw and Idle screw to get the T-ports basically "square". I dont see an "air bypass valve" on either of the Eddys, or the Carter, that you mentioned in your T-port synchro how to?
Back to work this weekend, so not sure when I can get to checking/setting the valves. Hopefully by the end of the weekend. I will also pull Carter off engine and take a look at the T-ports.
Am I correct in that the only way to adjust T-ports is to adjust idle screw and fast idle screw? I will post pics shortly, on the one Eddy, the T-ports look like they are different sizes?
Thanks again!
Comments inside the quote


As always, I start with the T-port sync. It pretty much sets the idle-timing for me. But with a solid-lifter cam, I start with checking the lash.
 
Leave the fast-idle screw out of it, lol; it is for setting the fast-idle speed when the choke is activated.
Yes the only way to adjust the transfer-slot exposure is with the curb-idle screw.
Very few carbs ever had an Idle Air Bypass. You have to engineer your own by introducing air below or thru the primary throttle valves. This is essentially a controlled vacuum leak. It is not usually required until the cam gets up to about 230/235*ish @.050; and even then it will be just a bit of air. By 240 tho, things are different; the 292/292/108 likes quite a bit of bypass air.
Some guys crack the secondaries, but if this is dry-air I haven't had much success with that.It seems the back cylinders go lean, and it's hard to work with that. And if you add fuel to that air, then of course the idle speed goes up. And then you have to either close the primaries, which upsets the sync; or you have to retard the timing.
So on street type cams, I don't usually crack secondaries.
 
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Pics. 1st 2 pics are of carbs. Am I missing "air bypass valve"?
3rd pic is of eddy idle screws. Thats the only way to adjust T-port?
Last 2 pics are of the Tports "squared"up. BUT it looks like the one on the right is bigger?
Thanks.

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Steve...the "old school" way of introducing more air through the carb at idle was to drill small holes in the primary plates.This, so that the plates can be closed more, allowing the idle circuit to come back into play....
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...but, like AJ says, that was really only for fairly radical camshafts.
 
Well got a chance to check/set valves. Ran outta time so only got drivers side done. All but 2 were at spec .022". Two of them were at approx .024. Reset those 2 to spec.
Will get to passenger side in the next couple days.
 
Ok pulled off the Carter tonight and got the T-ports set. Double checked float level and float drop. Drop was off a bit. Also a little bit of crud in there but nothing drastic.
Oh measured jets too while it was apart
.489 primaries
.374 secondaries
Tports took a fair bit to get "square"
There were a couple adjustments on the gasket kit instructions I didnt understand but will check FSM.
Getting late here so didnt wanna fire it up tonight. Off tomorrow so after helping a buddy move his mom I'll post updates.
Curious to see how it runs
Thanks all

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