Water in oil after doing timing chain .. stumped

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70DartMike

70DartMike

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Alright, a bit of a weird one.

I did the timing chain on the 273 in my '65 Valiant. This wasn't my first timing chain, I've done numerous and never had any problems. After reassembly, I fired it up, and everything was good. I let it warm up, and noticed some oil coming out the breather/oil fill cap. I looked closer, and noticed a bit of a green tinge. I pulled it off, to find a milky substance in the cap, and then a bit at the top of the dipstick. So back to disassembly. I drained the oil and coolant, and pulled it all back apart. When I assembled it the first time, I just used the regular timing chain cover gasket with no Permatex, just a bit of Black at the bottom corners of the oil pan. So, the 2nd time reassembling, I bought another new set of gaskets, used a new timing chain cover gasket and ran a thin layer of Permatex Black around the gasket, especially around the water pump ports. I used Teflon tape on all the bolt threads, and cranked them down tight. I changed the oil filter, poured new oil down, and new coolant. I got it all back together, fired it up, and let it warm up. Again! A milky substance coming out the breather, up the dipstick tube. So I shut it off, let it cool down, and checked the oil. No water in the oil... Just the milky substance at the top of the dipstick tube, in the breather cap, and in the valve covers.

Ideas?
 
Living in Ontario I found this to happen over the years with my Neon , Shadow and my older GMs back in the days..

I figured it was contributed from short trips to work etc... Not fully getting the motor hot and condensate formed....

It was never a bad case but it was evident.

The valve covers , breather element , oil cap and dip stick cap are the first to cool so condensation would appear depending on the outside temps..

I figure if you have a good breathing motor and good oil.... there is not much to worry about.... just get that motor real hot ...

What are the temps recently in BC
 
Did you actually have water in the oil the first time? From the thread title, I assume you did.

If so maybe what you have now is possibly left over residue from the previous water in oil problem. Did you drain the oil the second time and examine it? Did you clean up everything after the first time?

I have never heard of using Teflon tape on the bolts, I normally use gasket sealer on the threads of bolts that go in to the water jacket.
 
I get that in the winter months it usually takes a 20 mile drive to get rid of it. A warmer thermostat will also help heat things up, I use 195 in the winter and it helps with the sludge on the dip stick.
 
You're supposed to pump it pump with a coolant system tester and make sure it holds water before pouring water in it.
It may take a couple of oil changes to get all the coolant out of it.
Sad part is water already ran through the bearings :(
Good luck with it.
 
Hard to say..........

What condition is the timing cover? I've seen those in fairly rough shape from corrosion.

It IS possible that the cover can corrode clear through behind the water pump.

Is all the gasket surfaces, both block and cover, clean and straight? Don't forget that several of the bolts go into coolant as well as pump passages
 
several of the bolts in the front of the motor go into water...as you disassemble the engine...water could have ran down into the pan undetected......then you fire it up ..presto water in the oil...

have not used a gasket on the front timing chain in 25 yrs...only use the blue rtv...if you have any corrosion from years of the use the rtv will fill the small gaps and seal
 
70aarcuda said:
several of the bolts in the front of the motor go into water...as you disassemble the engine...water could have ran down into the pan undetected......then you fire it up ..presto water in the oil...
Click to expand...

Yup, 'xacly
 
I should have clarified from the beginning, I didn't see water in the oil sitting in the pan, but I got the milky substance all over the breather, inside the valve covers, and on the TOP of the dipstick.
 
68er said:
Living in Ontario I found this to happen over the years with my Neon , Shadow and my older GMs back in the days..

I figured it was contributed from short trips to work etc... Not fully getting the motor hot and condensate formed....

It was never a bad case but it was evident.

The valve covers , breather element , oil cap and dip stick cap are the first to cool so condensation would appear depending on the outside temps..

I figure if you have a good breathing motor and good oil.... there is not much to worry about.... just get that motor real hot ...

What are the temps recently in BC
Click to expand...

The temps at home were about -5 degrees Celsius when I was working on the car. I wondered about condensation too, however I don't recall it doing this prior to me doing the timing chain.
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
Did you actually have water in the oil the first time? From the thread title, I assume you did.

If so maybe what you have now is possibly left over residue from the previous water in oil problem. Did you drain the oil the second time and examine it? Did you clean up everything after the first time?

I have never heard of using Teflon tape on the bolts, I normally use gasket sealer on the threads of bolts that go in to the water jacket.
Click to expand...

I didn't have water in the oil in the bottom end, just the top end.

Yes, I did drain all the oil the 2nd time, as well as changed the filter. I cleaned up everything after the 1st time.

I only used Teflon tape because I read about others on here doing it, after doing some searches about this issue.
 
RedFish said:
You're supposed to pump it pump with a coolant system tester and make sure it holds water before pouring water in it.
It may take a couple of oil changes to get all the coolant out of it.
Sad part is water already ran through the bearings :(
Good luck with it.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I haven't ever checked with a coolant system tester, and haven't had a problem before though.. luck?
 
Simple really. It's leakin.
 
67Dart273 said:
Hard to say..........

What condition is the timing cover? I've seen those in fairly rough shape from corrosion.

It IS possible that the cover can corrode clear through behind the water pump.

Is all the gasket surfaces, both block and cover, clean and straight? Don't forget that several of the bolts go into coolant as well as pump passages
Click to expand...

The timing cover is in great shape. No corrosion anywhere. I pulled the water pump off the timing cover, and cleaned it all up very nicely.

All surfaces are very straight, nothing concerned me about them.

I know about the bolts, hence why I used Teflon tape. I haven't ever used the tape before in this situation, but I figured I'd give it a try after reading up on some searches here.
 
70aarcuda said:
several of the bolts in the front of the motor go into water...as you disassemble the engine...water could have ran down into the pan undetected......then you fire it up ..presto water in the oil...

have not used a gasket on the front timing chain in 25 yrs...only use the blue rtv...if you have any corrosion from years of the use the rtv will fill the small gaps and seal
Click to expand...

I thought of water running down into the pan when I disassembled, which is why I left the drain plug out while doing the chain. I poured a little oil down the pan to help clean out any water that may have gone in the pan, and saw it flow straight to the drain pan.

I didn't put the pan plug back in until I reassembled everything up front.

I could give the RTV only trick a try, however I sort of did that when I ran it along the gasket.
 
Hard to keep it out of the pan changing a chain.If the oils not milky I,d run it and see if it cleans up. [evaporates]
 
70DartMike said:
Clarify, 'what' is leaking?
Click to expand...

Timing cover. Did you coat both sides of the gasket AND the timing cover bolts with sealer where the water passages are? If not, then whoops. I would do like Pete said. Drive it a while and see if it clears up. If not, the timing cover is your huckleberry.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Timing cover. Did you coat both sides of the gasket AND the timing cover bolts with sealer where the water passages are? If not, then whoops. I would do like Pete said. Drive it a while and see if it clears up. If not, the timing cover is your huckleberry.
Click to expand...

I did coat both sides of the gasket with Permatex Black. I didn't use the sealer on the bolts, but instead Teflon tape.

I'll give that advice a try, and thanks as well Pete.

I appreciate the responses.
 
Since you say it only showed up as a milky substance up top, not oil saturated with coolant, it could very well have just been residue left behind from the original leak. There are spots in the lifter valley and the heads where water can puddle if it gets in the engine and the only 2 ways of getting it out is to either remove the intake and valve covers and dry things out by hand or run the engine to evaporate it. If you do run it to try to evaporate it just let it idle (maybe a fast idle). Driving it with very much moisture in the system can eat bearings pretty fast. With air as cold as yours it'll take a while to evaporate it out of the system. I'd also change the oil and filter again just to make sure all the coolant is out of it.
 
to give you an idea on the condensation. I just put one of those inline separators for the PCV system on my ram. We took a trip from AZ to Medford OR and back to AZ in 5 days. It was snowing from Redding to medford, and back to redbluff lol...

anyways the point. we drove in 300 mile leg's and from AZ (60* High/43*F Low) to central CA the vile was clean oil, maybe a table spoon per tank. from central Ca (55*F High/39*F Low) to redding and till we got back to Central Ca the vile had the milkshake going on. Now this is being driven 600 miles a day at 75mph so only outside temp is the variable. The worst it was was after driving in medford OR (25*F High/4*F low)and starting the trip home, was almost water lol...

Just an idea of what that moister will do!
 
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