when it rains it pours

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ef8340

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when will the bad luck end? yesterday my dart almost burnt down, one of my field wire terminals decided to come loose on my altenator and completely fried my engine harness, while i was secretly in route to the tag office to get my tag renewed (expired since dec). my dart has been out of action since christmas when the driver side header decided to burn up the back two plug wires, then i found out that MSD dont offer any replacement plug wires. there she sat and that sucked as it is our only transportation. luckily my wife works at the same place my sister does so she has a way back and forth to work and my son's school is across the street. lucky for us our refund had came in and after getting caught up on all of our late bills i had alittle left over to get me a new front light / engine harness from year one and that was it. im concerned about the dash wiring harness aswell but cannot afford the cost of a new one can anyone post any wiring diagrams for a rallye dash from a 70 swinger? i plan to go over each wire and check them out incase it went past the bulk head im also exchanging the bad altenator will i need to replace my ECM aswell?
thanks for any help
Terry
 
you should do some reading over on the mad electrical web site. there is an article on how to bypass your ammeter to prevent issues, and how to make good connections that dont "fry things" http://www.madelectrical.com/electrical-tech.shtml

i believe if you go to the moparts website, they have links from the main page with tons of tech articles about wiring. http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/elec.html
and there are some full wiring diagrams in pdf form that you can view/download on mymopar http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

you really wont need to buy a whole wiring harness. learning how to make sure that your current connections are clean/well connected/efficiently routed will make it work like new.

good luck!
 
I had the same problem and yes it did affect my under dash wiring to the point that I replaced it. I tried rewiring the bad wires but there were soo many of them that I gave up and ordered a new one from Year One. Expensive but easy fix!
 
Sorry to hear about the run of bad luck! Elec can be so frustrating. Not being a smartass here but do yourself a favor and get a fire extinguisher. I made dad go and buy one for his ride. By the way check anywhere and everywhere before buying from Year one.
 
I'd bypass the alternator output at the bulkhead connector, ASAP. Just run the output wire straight to the starter relay WITH A FUSIBLE LINK. Best thing I EVER did for my car.
 
Is it bad luck ? Do we make our own luck ? We all make mistakes. We learn from them and carry on. What am I talking about ?...
I read MSD and headers and wonder how a lot of aftermarket crap found its way in a vechile that is heavily depended on. That kind of stuff belongs on hobby vehicles only. A vehicle that is heavily depended on should be maintained only. Regular maintainance that will keep the vehicle dependable would include repairing or replacing faulty electrical connecters.
 
4spdragtop said:
Sorry to hear about the run of bad luck! Elec can be so frustrating. Not being a smartass here but do yourself a favor and get a fire extinguisher. I made dad go and buy one for his ride. By the way check anywhere and everywhere before buying from Year one.
Click to expand...
Where do you get automotive fire extinguishers? I've been wondering ever since a voltage regulator misshap almost burned my dart to the ground.
 
And btw, to the original poster, I'll say this. I totally understand where you're coming from as it seems like there is a hurricane directly over my house. Keep your head up and keep optimistic because things always work out in the end and there is a wonderful group of people here to help.
 
RedFish said:
Is it bad luck ? Do we make our own luck ? We all make mistakes. We learn from them and carry on. What am I talking about ?...
I read MSD and headers and wonder how a lot of aftermarket crap found its way in a vechile that is heavily depended on. That kind of stuff belongs on hobby vehicles only. A vehicle that is heavily depended on should be maintained only. Regular maintainance that will keep the vehicle dependable would include repairing or replacing faulty electrical connecters.
Click to expand...


That is a bad harsh don't you think! The poor guy comes on here to get advise about a problem he is having and you dump on him! We all have things happen from time to time that are crappy, but we sure don't need people throwing it in our faces. JMO
 
1968dartman said:
That is a bad harsh don't you think! The poor guy comes on here to get advise about a problem he is having and you dump on him! We all have things happen from time to time that are crappy, but we sure don't need people throwing it in our faces. JMO
Click to expand...

A little insight... During my high school all my hotrodding buddies apprecaited my help and my little 6 cyl. Gremlin getting them to school, work, part stores, when their hobby car crapped out.
Being an old kermugin doesn't give me a right to be cruel. I worded my comments as politely as I could. If the original poster takes offense , I'm sorry. If you or anyone else is offended...
LOL
 
thanks for all the replies and concerns regarding the dart. as far as a fire extingisher looking at getting one asap and as for the headers they were not the cause of the problem but a previous problem i had. i was running the factory 340 manifolds and yes i still have them and want to put them back on the car but the pipe flanges where they mounted too the manifolds cracked and were leaking exhaust fumes into the car and i had the headers laying around and figured it would be cheaper to install the headers and save the rest of the pipes compared to 300-500 bucks worth of exhaust work. it dont sound like much but when your wife is the only one working there are sacrifices one must make. the issue with the altenator i wasnt aware of until it decided to almost burn my car up the screw that secures the tab which the wire plugs into was the culprit all of the harnesses connecters were tight. i havent gone into tearing it apart yet. im waiting on my new engine harness from year one once i recieve that im gonna dive in and get a damage report of the dash harness hopefully it wont be to bad. the altenator is going back to advance to be swapped out for a new one. im also gonna check on moparts to see if they have a dash wiring diagram so i can trace all these wires down or if any one here has one they would like to share would be great
thanks
Terry
 
no offense takin redfish i do agree having a hobby car isnt a ideal reliable means of transportation but it is what it is and i wouldnt think of ever getting rid of it as it was the last car my mom and dad knew before they passed and i always told them i will restore it. although these last few yrs have been really trying ....it can only get better
 
You can download a free 70 Plymouth manual from here. You'll have to "play" with the page numbers as the numbers appearing in your reader will be consecutive, whereas the shop manual uses "dash" page numbering. Not that hard:



70 Dart/ Challenger:

[ame]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/70%20Dart%20Challenger%20Serv%20Man1.pdf[/ame]

70 Plymouth

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/servicemanuals/1970_Plymouth_Service_Manual.zip

Simplified wiring diagrams, sometimes easier to follow, sometimes not complete, and not always exactly accurate:

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70DartA.JPG

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1970/70DartB.JPG

I've done this, it just takes time, patience, and effort. Drop the column, pull out the dash cluster, and then pull out the under dash harness. Lay it out on your bench/ old table, etc, and drive nails in at the branches of the harness and fasten it so you can see how it lays out. Then cut the tape/ unwrap, inspect, and repair/ replace as necessary.

This stuff is cheap thermoplastic, so heat welds adjacent wiring together. Be sure and inspect it carefully.

Read this article from MAD about the ammeter/ bulkhead connector problems:

http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml

It REALLY would help if you would learn to use proper punctuation so the rest of us can read what you type.
 
Ok so while we're waiting for under hood wiring, Lets see what it looks like inside.
I would remove the instrument panel and at some point I would light it up and maybe even drive it without an instrument panel for a time.
The factory service manual is needed but.. their proceedures would have you work all around under the dash and leave the car disabled until its all back together. There is another way. been there done that a few times. A few of my gauge service customers have too.
And by the way... A member here has a dash wiring harness listed for parts only, priced right. It's from a 73 standard dash but would provide correct wire colors, etc.. to repair yours if needed. We wont know whats needed until we get in there.
Happy to help any way I can.
 
RedFish said:
Is it bad luck ? Do we make our own luck ? We all make mistakes. We learn from them and carry on. What am I talking about ?...
I read MSD and headers and wonder how a lot of aftermarket crap found its way in a vechile that is heavily depended on. That kind of stuff belongs on hobby vehicles only. A vehicle that is heavily depended on should be maintained only. Regular maintainance that will keep the vehicle dependable would include repairing or replacing faulty electrical connecters.
Click to expand...

actually MSD distributors and ignition boxes are MORE reliable than the factory units, if they are installed properly. if you leave loose wires hanging down into stuff yeah you will have problems.

i've never seen headers cause reliability problems...

but i guess we are all entitled to our opinions :D

you do know that car manufacturers buy a good quantity of their parts from other companies? i think *cough* mopar distributors are made by *cough* mallory. and mallory is not as dependable as msd.

actually i pity people who have newer vehicles with computer controlled ignition and fuel systems. what happens when the computer goes out? poof there goes $1000 for factory replacement according to "spec"

ok so what happens when you have a 1990 vehicle and the computer is no longer available

LOL
 
Well, I feel your pain. I'm currently driving my motorhome for basic transportation. Subaru daily driver died the head gasket death. Not worth repairing in a 300K 10 year old car. Just retired, so my company vehicle was turned in and we're planning to move back to Saskatchewan in a couple months. Holding off the car purchase till we get settled.

On your wiring problem, you likely do not need to make a wire by wire inspection under the dash. Any issues will be obvious. Bubbled or melted insulation merits further investigation. Do be careful when you power everything up after installing your new harness. That's the time issues will show up. Bulkhead connector is always a likely suspect. I don't think loose field wires on your alternator would have caused the fire. Whatever did is likely burned up in the engine harness and will be replaced anyways. Take your time, clean everything up and run wires carefully, make sure everything is secured properly and won't rub or fall onto hot components. Not sure what sort of ECM you expect on a 40 year old car. Are you referring to the voltage regulator?
 
RedFish said:
Ok so while we're waiting for under hood wiring, Lets see what it looks like inside.
I would remove the instrument panel and at some point I would light it up and maybe even drive it without an instrument panel for a time.
The factory service manual is needed but.. their proceedures would have you work all around under the dash and leave the car disabled until its all back together. There is another way. been there done that a few times. A few of my gauge service customers have too.
And by the way... A member here has a dash wiring harness listed for parts only, priced right. It's from a 73 standard dash but would provide correct wire colors, etc.. to repair yours if needed. We wont know whats needed until we get in there.
Happy to help any way I can.
Click to expand...

as for me being able to drive it without the instrument cluster would be a no go. when it happened i smelled smoke pulled over and shut it off immediatly. once i found out that the terminal mount was loose i tightened it and seperated the dark blue wire which was burnt almost to the bulkhead i removed the burnt stuff and wrapped it back up in electrical tape hope-ing this temp fix could get me back ( 2 miles from home). i then reconnected everything and the same thing resulted except this time it did not want to start just turned over but the wire was hot and smoldering under the electrical tape. i had to have a rollback come get me.
so far 68dartman has offered me a harness from a 68 dart for free. just have to pay shipping in which i'll probillay take him up on. once the weather clears up im gonna get out there and take the dash harness out and go over it just to check everything out since ive never done anything with it except run the juice threw it.
 
I didn't mean drive it without the panel now. I was only saying it can be done without putting everything back together first. The dk blue with a white tracer goes to the alternator, the ignition module, voltage regulator, ignition switch, instrument panel, and the fuse box in some models. It will have a welded splice inside the taped harness just below the where instrument panel connector is taped out.

And a 68 dash harness wont help you. The dark blue with white trcaer in that harness ( and others ) are a smaller gauge wire.
 
Keep on plugging on Terry. You sure as Hell know I have been there and am there. I had to drop my truck off on a rollback at a friends shop so he could get my dam Holley to stop leaking. I finally got everything sorted out after I found out my intake was warped and of course one more thing jumped up but ya know what? It don't leak a single drop of anything anymore cept gas so I said fug it. I ain't burning my truck to the ground just to break my cam in. In the mean time, my two feet get me back and forth to my job 4 miles away. I need to come give you those plug wires I have and that starter when I can.
 
For the cost of the front engine harness from year one, you could buy A new wiring kit from hotrod wires. Have 18 circuits and no more junk old chrysler wire.
 
ef8340 said:
thanks for the heads up. do you think my ignition module is fried too?
Click to expand...

No way to know. The connector on it has 5 wires. If the blue is melted through and contacting any of the other 4, the module and the pick up in the dist' may be zapped.
 
goodness gracious!! well so far from what i've seen its jst the dk blue wire. all of the other wires appear to be okay. there are acouple of spots on the other wires that the coating got hot from it being next to it but no bare spots
 
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