I have been sober for 10 yrs now. I used to think (at the beginning of my sobriety) that God, Jesus (Higherpower) got me sober. As time rolled by I slowly realized through other troubles that I've had besides crack cocaine and alcohol that I was the one that got through them. I was the one who had to get up every morning and face the troubles I had (without drinking or drugging). I was the one that got past it. I did not pray about it. I never really thought about it actually. Finally life got better... it took sometime.
If I go back to drinking or drugging it will be MY choice and mine alone. It will not be because I have decided to quit praying or worshiping a Higherpower (God, Jesus). However I don't want to ever go back to drinking because... it will kill me. I know it will. I'm one of those that don't have another sobering up left. I almost died while I was out there. I have health problems because of it now.
I will never forget when I was young I asked my Sunday school teacher "But wonder if there REALLY isn't a God?" She said " I would rather go through life worshiping a God than not worship God and go to Hell." I have always been like why do I have to be afraid of God in order to worship Him? I found myself worshiping because I was afraid to go to Hell not because I wanted to worship God.
Anyways I'm not the smartest when it comes to this subject as you can tell. I just find myself in between God and just trying to get through life if that makes since.
Mullinax (I used to hang out with a Danny Mullinax and his sister Barb - in MD no less, back in the 70's - and your life reads just like Danny's, so I can relate), thank you for posting here and understand that persons of faith don't use Hell as a "fear" tactic. Let me tell you, Americans have no comprehension of real "fear tactics" or "hell on earth", but some of us who are married to foreign women and have spent time abroad can tell you this:
Humanist societies (nations that put down the concept of God-given rights - because they have elevated themselves [in their minds] to act as God on Earth) are societies that have murdered and butchered their countrymen on an unprecedented scale - yet we as free Americans have the gall to claim we are offended simply because persons of faith ask us to engage in free will, and self realization from time-to-time, self-control, and play by a few simple rules - the 10 Commandments ?!!!
People die - every day - fighting for access to a PORTION of the freedom and liberties we enjoy here in the US, yet we feel defeated when a "vice" kicks us to the ground. I'm not trying to be disparaging here, but American's problems pale in comparison to the majority of the rest of the worlds, and hopefully it will stay that way... Recently, my faith was tested as I was sticken with cancer, but every time I walked through the wards, I felt ashamed after complaining about how a benevolent God would allow it - because I spent time in the Children's ward, and saw how courageously they accepted their fate - without blame - and rarely complaining. The point is, there's always someone out there suffering more than me, and my problems are just that, my problems...
Also, when you state the Sunday School Teacher used the fear of "hell" to try and influence you to lead a moral life, did you not create a "living hell" for you and those around you (I'm not being judgemental here - just asking) by rejecting her advise, and God's gift to you? Is it remotely possible the real message was " I understand we're not perfect, but by maintaining high moral standards you can become a "blessing" to your family and others in need, and maybe even our nation as a whole ? Additionally, statists love to exploit the "BLAME" game, as they convince us that God somehow let us down when we fail, but the truth is, we let ourselves down by being too arrogant to accept any help from 'a higher order'. Our failings can be found by answering one simple question:
Is Man, the epitome of PERFECTION, and therefore the center of the universe ? Mullinax, pls answer this question for yourself and I'll be glad to expound if you like. But it holds the answers to your, and many others, previous statements.
You are not the first, nor only, person to "miss the big picture of religion and politics," because statists have controlled the game, and masses, with their version of 'imbecillic religionists' for many decades now, but you certainly are, as a person of free will, capable of opening up your mind to both hear, and understand this fact:
When you ridicule Christians and Christianity - you ridicule our Founding Fathers, our Declaration of Independence, our precious Bill of Rights, and UNDERMINE our ability to preserve INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, here in America for everyone. It, in some ways, parallels your lifecycle, since we all believe that vices only harm us [individually], yet don't take time to understand how we affect our families and society as a whole - the bigger picture - though it sounds like you do now.
Rejecting the Founding Father's concept of God-given rights will put us all in shackles, eventually, since we're accepting the humanists demand that we worship them instead...vices aid them in their objectives for us.
I'm not going to preach to anyone here, but I do have an obligation to expain to all of you that
the religious concepts that protect you the most, are destroyed as the result of your refusal to try and understand WHY it's important we, at least, respect them. It's important that, even if you're not a religious person, that you do no harm to the concept of God-given rights. Why ? I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but:
Mullinax, again, if your rights don't come from God, they are non-existent ! That's the underlying BATTLE, and reason why Chrisitians and Christianity are disrespected; riduculed; even hated; because most true Christians understand the aforementioned reference,
and now, so do you.
It's a time-honored tradition where statists 'dummy up' the citizens to the point they reject the very systems that protect them - which always leads to the citizens being enslaved.
If you doubt what I say, can you name me another nation, devoid of 'religionists' where you'd like to live, or even ONE from the past ?
To make it simpler: the old analogy of putting corn in a field to attract hogs, and start putting up perimmeter posts and fence until the only thing left is to slam shut the gate through which you're herding them. Then, one night when the 'hogs' are comfortably feeding, slam the gate closed, and prepare for slaughter. That's damned near the identical plan humanists have used on societies for centuries.
Will we choose to allow ourselves to become victims, or will we demand they keep their mitts off our God-given rights and send them packing ?
You see, Christians also understand how 'nations' are created and their purpose:
Since the days of Hammurabbi; all nations started [many as tribes] when sufficient numbers of like-minded people banded together to form alliances. The outgrowth of these alliances were later codified in what people today refer to as religion (morals), which always defined the limits, or guidelines to which person/members/citizens were to conform. What is the REAL intent of morals ? Not just to protect and preserve the tribal/national way of life for future generations, but to ensure the next generation is more successful than the past.
That's right, Mullinax, Gods requirement is that we serve our families first, our community/nation second - and ourselves last...but I digress here.
These 'old world' organizations required oversight, which for ions, was handled by the 'elders' or 'wisemen', and later priests, pontiffs, etc.
Without endulging you in a prolonged history lesson here, the significance of the above answers the question of: What came first, the Church or the State ? And is there any such thing as "REAL" separation ?
Well, if a state develops first - there is, historically, no room for Church or religious views.
Humanists want you to believe their logic based on religion having no place in government, because they want to remove any notion of God-given rights, or an ordained government, and because it plays right into the hands of tyrants and dictators (persons that consider themself to be the equivalent of God on earth - Lenin, Mao, Trosky, Marx, etc).
However, where fundamental moral code is codified first, there is, typically limited room for government - unless the people [initially or eventually through coersion] relenquish such, and there are many examples of such across the globe today. Does that make sense ?
Religion gets a black eye where religious zealots have perverted the Word of God, and exploited the masses, and others, as a result of it, but the true Word of God forbids such perversion. It also requires us to look beyond the surface and understand our environment. As Moses so aptly put it: "My people are enslaved for lack of knowledge", and so it remains today...
I'll never judge my American brothers and sisters, but every once in a while I will nudge them to think long and hard about that which they have so little understanding. Your struggle with vices, is just that, your own personal struggle, and God knows we've all struggled/struggling with our own, and you should take pride in overcoming yours. It's no small feat.
Back to politics and government. What's MOST important is that we all have a point of reference whereby, through self-realization, and free will, we're able to conquer our vices and
uphold a standard that our family and friends can ascribe to themselves.
Remember, our nation is based, 100% on the 10 Commandments, and there's nothing about them that are 'unreasonable' when taken within the context of the individuals, family, or our nation as a whole.
I also feel compelled to tell you that our discussion on 'religion' has two separate, yet similar, objectives:
1 Defining citizen and governemental moral code (politics).
2 Individual relationships with God, which is no business of the gov't...
I've spoken most to #1, since, in lieu of it, #2 really doesn't matter. Think about it...
And, finally, Mullinax, thanks for sharing your take on this stuff. I find it fascinating, and, yes, though we're riduculed about it, we will keep you and others like you in our prayers,
because we understand the deep-seeded nature of your epic struggle, and it always helps to believe, actually know, that you're not alone - unless you choose to be - and God permits such, as you know...
Sorry for the length, but I detest a discussion laced with cliches. If I'm boring anyone, just ignore it. If you've got a dissenting opinion, put it on the table. As you can tell, I really do enjoy discusssing this stuff - while we still can. I'm actually surprised the typical group of sarcastic atheists haven't attacked me just yet. I think it may be attributed to the good nature and character of many of you that refer to yourselves as "car nuts", since, you truly must value working your *** off for little return, to be part of our club [kinda like us Christians]. God Bless you guys !!!
On a lighter note, I did have someone tell me they now understand why the humanists in our gov't are forcing the removal of the 10 Commandments from public view.
When lawyers and politicans are forced to read, Thou Shall not Lie or Steal, it creates a "hostile" working environment for them - not all mind you - just far too many....
Southernman
