cam degreeing needed?

-
moper said:
wow. You must live a simple life my friend :)
Click to expand...
Actually I do. Once you cut through all the BS that get's thrown about, then the whole deal gets a lot clearer.
I did leave out line boring, I just didn't want to complicate the situation.
 
crackedback said:
Always degree to verify the cam is in where you want it.

If you are spending time and money to build or upgrade an engine, just one of the steps to insure things are at least where they are supposed to be. Mp says to install some cams at 106-108, I installed them at 98-102. Depends on what you want out of it.

Get a cam that's 6* retarded and a timing set that is another 8-10 retarded. Yep, that's a recipe for success!

The factories didn't give 2 craps about assembly and correctness. As long as it ran, they were good. 2 identical cars from the factory sometimes ran very different, wonder why? :)
Click to expand...
Why stop at 6 on the cam and 10 on the gear?? Why not make it even more dramatic and make it 20 on the cam and 50 on the gear... It's a Comp gear set and a Purple cam .. Not ProComp stuff Sheesh,,, some people... Try indexing a COMPLETE cam and then get back to me, you might be surprised at what you find..It can get real hard to degree that cam in when the lobes are all over the place...and if you think one smoger from the factory goes better than another smoger because it's timing is closer to ideal ( whatever that ideal may be, could be +6 , who knows?) then your playing with yourself.

The ideal method, is to install the cam (straight up) and then advance or retard it for optimum power levels.. Plenty of people just degree a cam in and think that's the best it will ever be.. that's a fallacy..

I'd just pop that little purple cam in there and go cruising..
 
Plenty of people just degree a cam in and think that's the best it will ever be.. that's a fallacy..
Click to expand...
Plenty more people never degree their cam in and wonder why the engine is a dog out of the hole and then spend more time pulling the front end of the engine back off to advance it 6-10* and realize if they'd done it right the first time, they wouldn't be wasting another Saturday afternoon and buying another set of timing cover gaskets, oil, and coolant...

The OP asked a loaded question to an audience knowing full well their likely responses...he was just rationalizing if it's OK to just slap it in dot to dot and roll. The simple answer is, yes, it likely is OK to do that, but if you're not impressed with the way it runs (plenty of people have complained of the same exact thing on these forums), and want to fix it, what's the first remedy reply? Degree it...

And your above exercise in hyperbole isn't helpful...if he doesn't have the money to buy the kit now, there are alternatives, just like moper said...or you could simply wait and do the swap when you have all the proper tools and parts...
 
I am going to do my best to get a kit and degree it. I got the shortblock back from the machine shop so i just have to install the cam and top end.
 
well mine lunati voodoo cam was spot on What cam card said. Degreed it anyway to make sure.

tha being said if your new cam is grounded wrong something like 6 degrees I would return it, if manufacturer can't make even first lobe right I wonder where rest are....

I haven't heard anyone here who builds old Japanese. Or European cars needed to degree cam.

if you buy high dollar cam it least should be degreed right.

ofcourse if chain or crank is bad that's not cams fault.
 
Darren said:
Funny Guy

i am on this forum for advice. like most other people. i am trying to do the right thing with this engine but also on a tight budget. ( raising 2 young children) thats why a cant afford a degree kit at this time.
thats why i am asking the question.
Click to expand...

My apologies if you felt put down. I understand raising children. I went into the grocery store when my children were young because we were out of toilet paper. Couldn't afford to buy some because they came in packages of two and I could only afford one. Good thing I found a partial roll on the seat of the truck when I got back home. A man does what a man's gotta does. If you can't afford to time the cam, you can't afford to time it, simple. It won't blow up dot-to-dot.
 
txstang84 said:
Plenty more people never degree their cam in and wonder why the engine is a dog out of the hole and then spend more time pulling the front end of the engine back off to advance it 6-10* and realize if they'd done it right the first time, they wouldn't be wasting another Saturday afternoon and buying another set of timing cover gaskets, oil, and coolant...
Click to expand...
No they don't.. Plenty more people don't bother to do it and wouldn't know the difference anyway...
The only way to do it right is to spend those "Saturday afternoons" playing with your cam timing. Even if you have degreed in your cam to start with.
 
IQ52 said:
My apologies if you felt put down. I understand raising children. I went into the grocery store when my children were young because we were out of toilet paper. Couldn't afford to buy some because they came in packages of two and I could only afford one. Good thing I found a partial roll on the seat of the truck when I got back home. A man does what a man's gotta does. If you can't afford to time the cam, you can't afford to time it, simple. It won't blow up dot-to-dot.
Click to expand...

i am at the point i am thinking i am lucky i even got the car.kids = no time / no money. but would not change it for the world. i just want to get the dam engine in and running. but like i say i want to do the right thing. thats why i have been asking lots of (easy) questions lately. thanks guys
 
crackedback said:
Darren,

If you were in the US, I'd send you a mag base/dial indicator to use and return. Being in Canaukenstein, shipping is way too expensive to make that happen.

Here are some links to some harbor freight parts to give you an idea. I use these things all the time.
http://www.harborfreight.com/multipositional-magnetic-base-with-fine-adjustment-5645.html

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html

Grab an indicator extension, ~4", if you can find one.
Click to expand...

thanks crackedback for offering and the info. thats why i love this site.
 
Bakerlite said:
My advice... stay away from the discount parts bin.
Click to expand...

Quit being such a turd, which is eXACTly what you are "being." Crackedback is a WELL respected member on here, and knows of what he speaks on engine work.
 
I agree with degreeing it. I put a purple shaft(484/284) in my old 383 using a MP chain and gear set. It was retarded 8 degrees when installed dot to dot. It would have been even more of a pooch had I installed it that way..lol. Plenty of good ideas here to come up with inexpensive methods to check the timing. Good luck with your toy!! BB A-bodies are a blast!!
 
The whole thing is, bad enough with inaccuracies in manufacuring, but some cams are simply just "ground wrong" for what "we" are doing. I recently helped a local member on here with a "dog" of a cam, and it turned out "the guys" on here (It was another old outdated purple shaft, LOL) recommended a LOT more advanced than what MP had started with.

As I recall, when we pulled the "in use" cam drive and "guessed" at the offset with the new ones, there was something on the order of 2-4* difference between the two drive sets.
 
67Dart273 said:
Quit being such a turd, which is eXACTly what you are "being." Crackedback is a WELL respected member on here, and knows of what he speaks on engine work.
Click to expand...
No, I'm just offering my opinion on the subject and just because it's not the same as yours doesn't mean you need to start with the names... children resort to that sort of behavior.
 
Bakerlite said:
No, I'm just offering my opinion on the subject and just because it's not the same as yours doesn't mean you need to start with the names... children resort to that sort of behavior.
Click to expand...

No, your opinion is wrong. Most of this stuff is based on peoples actual factual experiences. How am I being a child because I think you are acting like a turd? You seem to think everybody else is stupid, and in effect that is what you are doing..........calling the rest of us stupid.

In case I forget later, I'm about done with you
 
67Dart273 said:
The whole thing is, bad enough with inaccuracies in manufacuring, but some cams are simply just "ground wrong" for what "we" are doing. I recently helped a local member on here with a "dog" of a cam, and it turned out "the guys" on here (It was another old outdated purple shaft, LOL) recommended a LOT more advanced than what MP had started with.
Click to expand...
Now your seeing my point...
 
67Dart273 said:
No, your opinion is wrong. Most of this stuff is based on peoples actual factual experiences. How am I being a child because I think you are acting like a turd? You seem to think everybody else is stupid, and in effect that is what you are doing..........calling the rest of us stupid.

In case I forget later, I'm about done with you
Click to expand...
Oh, I see, "turd" is the limit of your vocabulary. My apologies..
My "opinion" is totally rational for "his" situation. I'm saying he can put it in and go..cruising.
Now if he came on here and said he had a class limited racing engine, then he would have got a different response from me. I know it may be hard for you to comprehend that the same problem may have two different solutions based on the customers needs and financial situations.
Now you can take your bat and ball and go home.
 
Bakerlite said:
The only way to do it right is to spend those "Saturday afternoons" playing with your cam timing. Even if you have degreed in your cam to start with.
Click to expand...

Which was precisely the point in the first place.

And for those of whom you speak that never degree it in and wouldn't know the difference, that's on them-if no questions are asked.
 
So i ended up getting a degree kit. my MP cam calls for 113 centre line, after degreeing twice i came up with 110*. so i am 2* retard ( correct)? do i leave or advance with the advance slot on my comp cams timming set? the car is a 383 4 speed mainly stock street car. Thanks
 
Darren said:
So i ended up getting a degree kit. my MP cam calls for 113 centre line, after degreeing twice i came up with 110*. so i am 2* retard ( correct)? do i leave or advance with the advance slot on my comp cams timming set? the car is a 383 4 speed mainly stock street car. Thanks
Click to expand...

I believe you will find that you are 3* advanced.
 
I would like to see it that far advanced, or "as far as' advanced as the guys here think, for three reasons..

1.......It will WEAR more retard, so you don't want to start that way

2......Most cams and especially MP probably are better off for the most of us advanced in relation to spec, for the way we use our cars, IE lower RPM, torque

3.....And on 2.......it might be that this cam might be better off advanced some for best street performance.

I'm sure Cracked, for one, will chime in..........

The centerline is going to be AFTER TDC.............

http://www.lunatipower.com/Tech/Cams/CamSpecTerms.aspx
 
Darren said:
So i ended up getting a degree kit. my MP cam calls for 113 centre line, after degreeing twice i came up with 110*. so i am 2* retard ( correct)? do i leave or advance with the advance slot on my comp cams timming set? the car is a 383 4 speed mainly stock street car. Thanks
Click to expand...

Sorry i meant to say 3* not 2*. another thing is i am setting the indicator plunger against the outer lip of the hyd lifter. is that ok? thanks
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top