what solid cam is equivalent to a hyd 268 ?

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stroker402 said:
Well my fabo followers ............ My 273 blew up , it cam up with a rod know the other day and I have it all ripped apart already. noise was coming for #5 rod 'spun bearing ", but once I tore into the engine, every bearing was scored and more bearings were spun so bad they looked like tin foil. probally revved too high at rpm 6400 or oiling issues , oil light never came on and it does work , so it had oil , could be alot of things . It's all water under the bridge at this point in time. I have another good 273 crank, rods 10/10 and pistons read to go to the machine shop for clean up and start assembly.
Click to expand...
WHY
You already know it's not enough engine for you, and probably never can be.
You'll have to punch it up to 1.165 hp/cid.... just to match a 318 at 1.0hp/cid, or a 360 at .88hp/cid
And when you do that.........the bottom end gets a little soft.........again.
If you want to keep the 3.55s....... get a bigger engine; you'll be so much happier.
I've got 273doorstops and 318doorstops and 340doorstops stacked up in the shed double high and 15ft long. Do yourself a favor and drop a stock 360 in there. With headers and a 4bbl, it will kill those 3.55s, and it will barely be working hard.
Oh and get a rev-limiter, some 340 springs, and try and stay out of the 6000s unless you do the required oiling mods, to make it live there.
Once a 360 is in there, then you can justify other mods, that will reap proportionally more benefits in the bigger engine.
Think of it this way; that 286 cam, the way it was handicapped in the 273, was probably acting like a cam that is only 2 or at the absolute most, 3 sizes bigger than the 252FTH that is in a stock 360........but the 360 has a cubic inch advantage that is acting like a cam that is easily 4 or perhaps 5 times bigger at the power peak...in a 273 ....... without the low-rpm penalty.
Here's another way to look at it
to equal a 360 at take off with 3.55s......... the 273 will need about 4.68s; all other things being equal, say at same hp/cid
And another
Say you built them both up to 300hp, and still with 3.55s and same trans, the 273 will need vastly more gear just to keep up with the 360. So on the race track, they might finish pretty close together. But you are not on the racetrack. A streeter needs a strong bottom end. and a 300hp 360 will have, or can have, and should have, a vastly stronger bottom end. In fact, it is easily possible to have waaay more bottom-end than the lite-A chassis can handle, with a 300hp 360

So with that said,even a modest 318 will kill 3.55s without the total waste of power that the 360 brings to a lite-A streeter.
The one advantage to a 300/360 would be that you could run 3.23s or 2.94s and gain some mpgs and hiway comfort.
This is especially true if you have the 3.09 low in that 4-speed box.
 
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The reason I don't go external balanced 360 is because I would have to balance the oem 9.5" fly wheel which I do not know if I can or know how to. school me on that and maybe I can be convinced to do a 360. and I don't want to be changing the bell and all the other items for a 10.5" clutch assembly.
I do love that 273 though , even though it doesn't have much power. the combo that I had in my 273 rocked my world , it was fast enough for me . just saying . that car sounded like a big block , that is what most people said .
 
stroker402 said:
The reason I don't go external balanced 360 is because I would have to balance the oem 9.5" fly wheel which I do not know if I can or know how to. school me on that and maybe I can be convinced to do a 360. and I don't want to be changing the bell and all the other items for a 10.5" clutch assembly.
I do love that 273 though , even though it doesn't have much power. the combo that I had in my 273 rocked my world , it was fast enough for me . just saying . that car sounded like a big block , that is what most people said .
Click to expand...

360 balance can be done, but I would never put a 9.5 clutch behind a 360. It wouldn't even hold my 273 without a custom build. And I was not saying to do all those things, just trying to make the point how one thing leads to another and another, and now you are way down the rabbit hole. I'd take the time to figure out what you want and do it. Done right these motors last a very long time. Even if you run them up to 7K occasionally.
 
In the early As, traction is gonna be your biggest enemy.
So much so that I would run all the 273 stuff you got back there, the lack of HOOK will protect them...... at least for a while
Everything bolts right up AFAIK.
If you run a 318/340 short stroke crank, get the lightweight hypers which weigh about the same as your 273 pistons. If you're going with a sane street cam, which is all the lightweight-A needs, then you might even run the 273 crank and early rods, or the 318 stuff, to make internal balancing easy. You already have the later rods, assuming they pass muster, so a 318 crank in a 340 might be pretty close. The hypers might be a few grams heavier,(than the 273s), but not much.
Factory 273 pistons are listed at 549 gms, 318s were 592, 340s were 719 forged items, so don't use the 340 pistons/crank. The rods are all listed at 726gs, and in 69,they were all bushed.
BTW 360 hypers are ~502, so don't think 273s have the market cornered on fast reving.Mine is lightning.
So to recap; the logical choice is hypers, late rods and a 318 crank.... into either the 318 or a 340. Lotsa guys have bored 318s out to 340specs. This is also a logical thing to do in a lightweight-A running 3.55s with a small cam. If you do this with a 340 you have to change your thinking from all 340s were screamers, to Oh, Gee this 340 makes torque!....... cuz you're only gonna need a 262ishFTH cam . You can still buzz it up to whatever, with the right springs. And with the torque of a small-cam 340, you can run log-manifolds and even should you desire, closed chamber 318 heads or better is Magnum heads.
As I said elsewhere, I have run this exact combo in a 65 V100 Wagon and it had zero-traction, so the heads were not the limiting factor, although I did run headers.That was one of my most fun combos ever; and it was just thrown together with junk I had laying around.

Now as to balancing, I don't understand the problem; You just bring your stuff to the machine shop and let them work it out. They will weigh it all out, and tell you your options. You supply the Front damper and the flywheel and they take care of it. Or in the case of the 318 crank into the 340 with say KB107s, it's gonna be real close already.In fact, there is a chance your current crank and rods might be pretty close with those KB107s into a bored out 318/340.I say this cuz all these many years later, that 273 crank is an unknown.
Maybe the thing to do is take your 273 crank and a couple of rods over to the machine shop and have them calculate what weight piston will work as-is, and knowing the weight of the hypers, they can tell you, what will have to be done to make 'em work.Then you can make a decision at that time.
Or just weigh your current 273 pistons, and compare them to the hypers. At least you'll get a picture,of where you need to be.

If you went with a 360, there's all kinds of pistons made for those, and many of them are close to stock weight, and many have extra material on top that you can mill off to set your Q, perfectly. The icing on this is you can run an even smaller cam,and fry the tires at will up to maybe 50/60mph in that Lightweight-A. Or you can swap to 3.23/2.94s and lose a bit on the bottom,(of which with 355s, you are gonna have way too much anyway), and gain some hiway comfort and mpgs.
But like 66fs says you're gonna need a bigger clutch.....sooner or later.
And balancing that second flywheel is no big deal if you have the specs of the first one or just bring them both to the shop.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
WHY
You already know it's not enough engine for you, and probably never can be. YUP

If you want to keep the 3.55s....... get a bigger engine; you'll be so much happier. So true
I've got 273doorstops and 318doorstops and 340doorstops stacked up in the shed double high and 15ft long. Do yourself a favor and drop a stock 360 in there. Damn AJ you sure are making a ton of sense! Bravo!
Click to expand...

J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
J.Rob
Click to expand...
update :
I think I'm going to rebuild my 273 engine . I bought the crank and rods already and so I'm going to use them. the rods are lighter so that may help it spin up a little faster and advance the erson up 8*. I've gone thru wanting to go fast back in the past , so that is out of my system . I had built a 360 crate into a 65 dart convertible years ago that when 11.4 on motor and dipped into the 10's on squeeze ,and other 340/360's, so I have been there /all done that . My 65 barracuda is a real formula S and I don't intend to start butchering it up. It's just a stock driver and it's fast enongh for me and it's a blast to drive . just say n.
I appreciate all your opinions and help you guys , I'll just keep tweaking on it . I'm just having fun . Hope you all understand .

raggie 5-11 driveway Gooddddddddd.jpg
 
It is your car, and I understand, having done the same with my 66 Cuda. It is as stock Formula S Commando as I could make it, except I run an early A Hurst instead of the Inland shifter and a better clutch. I'd run a windage tray and a high pressure oil pump spring if you didn't in the last engine.
 
66fs said:
It is your car, and I understand, having done the same with my 66 Cuda. It is as stock Formula S Commando as I could make it, except I run an early A Hurst instead of the Inland shifter and a better clutch. I'd run a windage tray and a high pressure oil pump spring if you didn't in the last engine.
Click to expand...
this 273 that blew up did have a vintage tray on it already . the oil pump I : have a question on though ,is when idleing at 800 rpm with the valve covers off the oil is squirting like you cut a main artery on your body. I never see oil squirt like that on any mopar engine . just wondering if it had a high pressure instead of a high Volume oil pump installed previously. any way to tell? numbers on the oil pump somewhere? one more thing , the rocker shafts have the grooves cut into them for more oiling .
 
Not really. I run High pressure and high volume oil pumps in everything, and I adjust the valves hot and running. It does splash oil a bit but not spraying all over, like you just cut an artery. 340's and HP 360's had high pressure springs, 65 psi, and standard volume.
 
66fs said:
Not really. I run High pressure and high volume oil pumps in everything, and I adjust the valves hot and running. It does splash oil a bit but not spraying all over, like you just cut an artery. 340's and HP 360's had high pressure springs, 65 psi, and standard volume.
Click to expand...
I started cleaning some parts and the oil pump is a M72 HV .... a standard volume and pressure . this 273 oil pump was spraying like mad at the rockers at idle. might be altered ? spring?
.........
Brand:Melling

Manufacturer's Part Number:M72

Part Type:Oil Pumps

Product Line:Melling Oil Pumps

Summit Racing Part Number:MEL-M72


UPC:729295101123

Oil Pump Style:Wet sump

Oil Pump Volume:Standard-volume

Oil Pump Pressure:Standard-pressure

High-Pressure Oil Pump Spring Included:No

Pickup Included:No



ASLO A STANDARD PUMP >>
Brand:Melling

Manufacturer's Part Number:M72

Part Type:Oil Pumps

Product Line:Melling Oil Pumps

Summit Racing Part Number:MEL-M72


UPC:729295101123

Oil Pump Style:Wet sump

Oil Pump Volume:Standard-volume

Oil Pump Pressure:Standard-pressure

High-Pressure Oil Pump Spring Included:No
 
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I am a big fan of the Comp 270S cam. My low compression 318 has plenty of bottom end and awesome midrange. It's 224*@.050", works fine with Comp 901 single (drop-in) springs and 273 rockers/pushrods. A little lopey at idle, but no bogs or flat spots with a 3.55 gear and 833 O/D trans, even lugging 4th gear around town. You can vary the lash from .014/.016" (hot, I&E) to .028/.030" to tune it in to a 273 or even a 360. I use .020/.022" usually on my 'teen.
 
found this article on our site about oil pumps . I bet I was sucking the oil pan dry because this engine took so long to rev up.>>> High pressure requires a stronger intermediate shaft (and sometimes a drive gear change)
High volume can starve the engine for oil at higher RPM's due to pulling the sump dry before the oil can get back down into the pan again.
A standard pump can have not enough flow and pressure for a loose engine.

For a regular performance street motor a standard pump is totally fine.
 
stroker402 said:
found this article on our site about oil pumps . I bet I was sucking the oil pan dry because this engine took so long to rev up.>>> High pressure requires a stronger intermediate shaft (and sometimes a drive gear change)
High volume can starve the engine for oil at higher RPM's due to pulling the sump dry before the oil can get back down into the pan again.
A standard pump can have not enough flow and pressure for a loose engine.

For a regular performance street motor a standard pump is totally fine.
Click to expand...
FYI, Had nothing to do with how long it took to rev up. Did you have a gauge on the engine so you could monitor how much oil pressure you had at 6000 rpm where that big cam needed to run? How many miles on the engine? What were the oil clearances when the engine was built and what were they when you took it apart? Were the bearings down to the copper? If they were the engine was worn out. Have your machine shop clearance it right, forget re-using that cam you have and put in something the little 273 will like and let it go at that. A stock rebuild doesn't need a HP or HV oil pump. It doesn't need to spin a lot of rpm's. Make sure all the internal oil galley plugs are in place.
 
If I go to this isky e-4 solid I think it is just a little too whimpy for my taste "daily driver friendly" . How about a step up to a E-3. see attachment >>>>>>>>>>>>>
What is the difference between an E3 and E4?
Also, the Isky and Summit websites are the most non-intuitive (frustrating to say the least) when searching for answers. Any suggestions on the best place to buy an Isky cam kit?

Thanks again..FABO is the place.
Click to expand...
Iskenderian Camshafts

'E-3' Camshaft 'Mechanical'
Lift ...................... .448"/.448"
Duration ............... 266*/266*
Duration @ .050" ... 228*/228*
Overlap ................ 48*
Lash .................... .018"

'E-4' Camshaft 'Mechanical'
Lift ...................... .425"/.425'
Duration ............... 260*/250*
Duration @ .050" ... 218*/216*
Overlap ................. 44*
Lash ..................... .020"

The 'E-3' makes a little more grunt on the 'Bottom-End' and 'Mid-Range'.

But it is like 'Night-and-Day over 4500 RPM's, as the 'E-3' makes some
very good upper Mid-Range power.

The Iskenderian 'E-3' Camshaft was called 'The Original 3/4 Race Camshaft'.
 
stroker402 said:
If I go to this isky e-4 solid I think it is just a little too whimpy for my taste "daily driver friendly" . How about a step up to a E-3. see attachment >>>>>>>>>>>>>
What is the difference between an E3 and E4?
Also, the Isky and Summit websites are the most non-intuitive (frustrating to say the least) when searching for answers. Any suggestions on the best place to buy an Isky cam kit?

Thanks again..FABO is the place.
Click to expand...
Iskenderian Camshafts

'E-3' Camshaft 'Mechanical'
Lift ...................... .448"/.448"
Duration ............... 266*/266*
Duration @ .050" ... 228*/228*
Overlap ................ 48*
Lash .................... .018"

'E-4' Camshaft 'Mechanical'
Lift ...................... .425"/.425'
Duration ............... 260*/250*
Duration @ .050" ... 218*/216*
Overlap ................. 44*
Lash ..................... .020"

The 'E-3' makes a little more grunt on the 'Bottom-End' and 'Mid-Range'.

But it is like 'Night-and-Day over 4500 RPM's, as the 'E-3' makes some
very good upper Mid-Range power.

The Iskenderian 'E-3' Camshaft was called 'The Original 3/4 Race Camshaft'.
Click to expand...
I would go for that. The
 
Interesting, I never knew that cam was available. I have my 273 build on my dyno software. Just changing the cam specs there is a increase of about 25 horse and the torque stays almost the same but at 500 rpm higher. I like that cam and would have put that one in if I had known about it when I built my 273.
 
You might have to contact Isky if you're interested. They could grind you one I bet. Their website leaves something to be desired.
 
[Q06"]You might have to contact Isky if you're interested. They could grind you one I bet. Their website leaves something to be desired.[/QUOTE]

still searching E-3 .
 
stroker402 said:
found this article on our site about oil pumps . I bet I was sucking the oil pan dry because this engine took so long to rev up.>>> High pressure requires a stronger intermediate shaft (and sometimes a drive gear change)
High volume can starve the engine for oil at higher RPM's due to pulling the sump dry before the oil can get back down into the pan again.
A standard pump can have not enough flow and pressure for a loose engine.

For a regular performance street motor a standard pump is totally fine.
Click to expand...


Two things.

You didn't suck the pan dry. That is total bullshit.

Two, why are you married to the idea you either have to run that goofy cam you have, or an E4 Isky? I've been doing this **** for DECADES and I still don't understand why guys won't pick up the phone and order a cam that is custom for your application. Frankly, it's just stupid no to. For what you are doing call somebody not named Comp and get a cam.

Your **** will run better and you will be happier in the end.
 
yellow rose said:
Two things.

You didn't suck the pan dry. That is total bullshit.

Two, why are you married to the idea you either have to run that goofy cam you have, or an E4 Isky? I've been doing this **** for DECADES and I still don't understand why guys won't pick up the phone and order a cam that is custom for your application. Frankly, it's just stupid no to. For what you are doing call somebody not named Comp and get a cam.

Your **** will run better and you will be happier in the end.
Click to expand...
I will agree. Although I am not disappointed with the performance of the E4, i'm sure somebody could grind me up one with a little more pep. But the way I drive it, a extra 20 horse wouldn't make much difference. I didn't build it for maximum performance just a nice driver and that it is. I also believe that crazy cam, regardless of how far you mess with it, it won't come close to a milder cam for your combo.
 

toolmanmike said:
I will agree. Although I am not disappointed with the performance of the E4, i'm sure somebody could grind me up one with a little more pep. But the way I drive it, a extra 20 horse wouldn't make much difference. I didn't build it for maximum performance just a nice driver and that it is. I also believe that crazy cam, regardless of how far you mess with it, it won't come close to a milder cam for your combo.
Click to expand...


I'm not opposed to the E4 cam. It's a great grind. The OP is like a fart in a skillet. He wants a huge cam to run like a stocker and it doesn't happen.

If the OP wants to satisfied he will get on the phone and TALK with someone instead of searching the web guessing and hoping he gets it right.

It's frustrating. It want that long ago it was hard for most guys to get on the phone and get someone who knew what they were doing. Unless you were a big name you got an off the shelf cam. Today, you can call a half dozen cam grinders who, for the most part don't do shelf cams.

No reason to make this another bad cam choice. The phone is your friend.
 
yellow rose said:
I'm not opposed to the E4 cam. It's a great grind. The OP is like a fart in a skillet. He wants a huge cam to run like a stocker and it doesn't happen.

If the OP wants to satisfied he will get on the phone and TALK with someone instead of searching the web guessing and hoping he gets it right.

It's frustrating. It want that long ago it was hard for most guys to get on the phone and get someone who knew what they were doing. Unless you were a big name you got an off the shelf cam. Today, you can call a half dozen cam grinders who, for the most part don't do shelf cams.

No reason to make this another bad cam choice. The phone is your friend.
Click to expand...

Agree there! There have been post after post here and still no belief in what was recommended. Yes it is frustrating. Probably the toughest part of the "off the shelf cam business for solid lifter small block Mopars" is there are only 3 or 4 shelf cams that are mild enough to be streetable. All others are race cams (or at least too racy for a 2 barrel 273).
 
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