Stop in for a cup of coffee

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Read the plugs after a cruise. Rich will be evident. Raw gas smell night be floats adjusted wrong or needle valve leaking. Flooding into engine.
 
Mopar Tim said:
Read the plugs after a cruise. Rich will be evident. Raw gas smell night be floats adjusted wrong or needle valve leaking. Flooding into engine.
Click to expand...

Thanks Tim


Pulled a plug and it looked good... Should've taken a photo but new plugs are on the agenda as well.

I think I mentioned further up but I've put more miles on the car "test driving" in the last year than was put on the car in the prior 14 years. Most of the work is around what I think are the result of it sitting for so long. (I'm still finding mud wasp nests in some unusual places)
 
OEM 64-66 Wiper Arms..??




1964 1965 1966 Plymouth Barracuda Windshield Wiper Arms mint MoPar genuine OEM | eBay

Screenshot_20220722-164724_eBay.jpg
 
WV64Signet said:
So what should I be looking for in this instance?
Click to expand...
If it was me, probably in this order.
1. leaks - leaks in the fuel supply to the bowls, and with a Holley, also the bowls.
2. High fuel level in the bowls causing some spillage/overflow. Remove top of air cleaner and see if the front or rear barrels look wet. Should not see wet on the boosters or throttle plates. If it has automatic choke, you'll have to open that to see down the front.
3. Normal venting from an open fuel system. Fuel bowl vents are open to the air cleaner and the gas tank is open to what? top of the fill tube?
It will be worse on hot days. Current pump fuel has a higher percentage of fuel that will vaporize between 100 and 130*F or so. The eth is part of the problem but its the entire formulation, so even eth free may or may not reduce that problem.
Some fuel distillation curves plotted in this post Video of boiling point of fuel

WV64Signet said:
"Trust but verify" as they say....
Click to expand...
thumbs_up-gif.gif

For the basics, Chrysler's Master Tech does a pretty good job. But if you look through posts on a couple other forums I used to participate in, the smart money was on those that read and understood the industry publications. These include books by Obert, Taylor, etc. along with publicly available NACA documents, etc. When they discussed performance characteristics they cited, and provided charts from those publications. I've reposted some here at FABO. I'm just riding these guys coat tails. If you want to dig deeper, you want posts from people who know and respect the research and testing done forauto industry as well as racing and planes that had to engage in air combat.
Example from "Tuner" here
racingfuelsystems-Desired Carburetor AFR Characteristics At Different % Load

WV64Signet said:
So I should stick with what is in there and assess from there is what I'm gathering here. Perhaps other areas of the system are to be considered...timing etc. (??)
Click to expand...
So far. Yes.
Spark plugs will give some insight into what's happening in the cylinders. Of course it will be a mix of reactions from a range of conditions, but if its extremely rich in any of them that still should show up.

If you want to mess with tune, make small changes one at a time. For example with the main jets, drive at 60 or 65 mph. If its not surging then you can try a little leaner.
If it seems rich at idle or off idle. Check fuel level in the bowls. Check transfer slot visible under the throttles when at slow idle position. With those established (adjusted) then some small steps can be made.


For the off-idle to work properly the primary side transfer slots visible under the throttle at idle need to be in the range of .020 - .040"
You can check with feeler gage or drill bits.
While you're at it, write down how many 1/4 turns in of the idle speed screw from just touching gets .020, 030, and .040. Then you'll always know how far open the throttles are.

upload_2020-4-30_19-5-42-png.png

The more transfer slot exposed to vacuum at idle, the more fuel will get drawn from the slot rather than go through the idle port with the needle valve in it.
The reason for this is these carbs are designed to draw fuel from both the transfer slot and the idle port at slow idle.
When the throttle opens, already having fuel flowing from the transfer slot reduces the delay in increasing fuel to match the additional air.
If they are too far open at idle, then transfer slot happily supplies all the fuel the engine needs to idle.
upload_2020-4-30_19-9-0-png.png
 
Mopar Tim said:
Read the plugs after a cruise. Rich will be evident. Raw gas smell night be floats adjusted wrong or needle valve leaking. Flooding into engine.
Click to expand...
I agree.
A rich condition that's going through the engine will make your eyes water, at least at idle when your get wiff of it. I dont know how else to describe.
 
Mattax said:
I agree.
A rich condition that's going through the engine will make your eyes water, at least at idle when your get wiff of it. I dont know how else to describe.
Click to expand...
Check your fuel pressure. A buddy fought that with 2 engines and I figured out it was the fuel pump that got transferred to the new engine. He was running a Edelbrock and the pump was putting out 6# or so. Nothing you could do to lean it out. We put on a regulator, adjusted it to 4# and it ran like a champ. Something to check.
 
toolmanmike said:
Check your fuel pressure. A buddy fought that with 2 engines and I figured out it was the fuel pump that got transferred to the new engine. He was running a Edelbrock and the pump was putting out 6# or so. Nothing you could do to lean it out. We put on a regulator, adjusted it to 4# and it ran like a champ. Something to check.
Click to expand...
Imo every fuel system should have a return line to tank. Prevents vapor lock. 4psi to carb is great
 
Mattax said:
If it was me, probably in this order.
1. leaks - leaks in the fuel supply to the bowls, and with a Holley, also the bowls.
2. High fuel level in the bowls causing some spillage/overflow. Remove top of air cleaner and see if the front or rear barrels look wet. Should not see wet on the boosters or throttle plates. If it has automatic choke, you'll have to open that to see down the front.
3. Normal venting from an open fuel system. Fuel bowl vents are open to the air cleaner and the gas tank is open to what? top of the fill tube?
It will be worse on hot days. Current pump fuel has a higher percentage of fuel that will vaporize between 100 and 130*F or so. The eth is part of the problem but its the entire formulation, so even eth free may or may not reduce that problem.
Some fuel distillation curves plotted in this post Video of boiling point of fuel


View attachment 1715959456
For the basics, Chrysler's Master Tech does a pretty good job. But if you look through posts on a couple other forums I used to participate in, the smart money was on those that read and understood the industry publications. These include books by Obert, Taylor, etc. along with publicly available NACA documents, etc. When they discussed performance characteristics they cited, and provided charts from those publications. I've reposted some here at FABO. I'm just riding these guys coat tails. If you want to dig deeper, you want posts from people who know and respect the research and testing done forauto industry as well as racing and planes that had to engage in air combat.
Example from "Tuner" here
racingfuelsystems-Desired Carburetor AFR Characteristics At Different % Load


So far. Yes.
Spark plugs will give some insight into what's happening in the cylinders. Of course it will be a mix of reactions from a range of conditions, but if its extremely rich in any of them that still should show up.

If you want to mess with tune, make small changes one at a time. For example with the main jets, drive at 60 or 65 mph. If its not surging then you can try a little leaner.
If it seems rich at idle or off idle. Check fuel level in the bowls. Check transfer slot visible under the throttles when at slow idle position. With those established (adjusted) then some small steps can be made.


For the off-idle to work properly the primary side transfer slots visible under the throttle at idle need to be in the range of .020 - .040"
You can check with feeler gage or drill bits.
While you're at it, write down how many 1/4 turns in of the idle speed screw from just touching gets .020, 030, and .040. Then you'll always know how far open the throttles are.

View attachment 1715959458
The more transfer slot exposed to vacuum at idle, the more fuel will get drawn from the slot rather than go through the idle port with the needle valve in it.
The reason for this is these carbs are designed to draw fuel from both the transfer slot and the idle port at slow idle.
When the throttle opens, already having fuel flowing from the transfer slot reduces the delay in increasing fuel to match the additional air.
If they are too far open at idle, then transfer slot happily supplies all the fuel the engine needs to idle.
View attachment 1715959457
Click to expand...


Nice!

Printed this out. I'll take some time reading and checking out the links provided to get myself educated.
 
Well I am home from a solid two plus hours in dentists chair getting broken tooth repaired. It was zero fun. I took my ear buds and tried to drown out the drills and grinders with Joe Bonamassa shredding his guitar. Doc said I would have discomfort this afternoon and to take some ibuprofen. F that I am taking muscle relaxers and Bourbon. Holy smokes my jaw is sore. Dentist terrifies me. My pain tolerance is actually pretty high but I think it is the laying back upside down not being able to defend myself that amps me up. My fight or flight DNA is very strong! The first shot for numbing I thought holy crap I gotta do something my heart went into warp speed. I told Doc I needed to sit up and calm down for a minute. He then explained that the Novacain or whatever they use to numb you has a ingredient in it that can be a stimulant to the heart, like a epi pen. Turns out I am one of those that it has that effect on. My heart was racing. I then explained that I do not ingest caffeine or sugar as my body does not like stimulants. I would have sucked as a dope addict! Freaked me out. Second shot I was mentally prepared so rode it out with no issue. Holy crap I am glad it is over.
 
A couple hours rest does a body good. Can probably get more done, especially if Kim comes to the rescue. my best friend is going to give me a rough time over the Lectric chainsaw.
 
Sublime one said:
Well I am home from a solid two plus hours in dentists chair getting broken tooth repaired. It was zero fun. I took my ear buds and tried to drown out the drills and grinders with Joe Bonamassa shredding his guitar. Doc said I would have discomfort this afternoon and to take some ibuprofen. F that I am taking muscle relaxers and Bourbon. Holy smokes my jaw is sore. Dentist terrifies me. My pain tolerance is actually pretty high but I think it is the laying back upside down not being able to defend myself that amps me up. My fight or flight DNA is very strong! The first shot for numbing I thought holy crap I gotta do something my heart went into warp speed. I told Doc I needed to sit up and calm down for a minute. He then explained that the Novacain or whatever they use to numb you has a ingredient in it that can be a stimulant to the heart, like a epi pen. Turns out I am one of those that it has that effect on. My heart was racing. I then explained that I do not ingest caffeine or sugar as my body does not like stimulants. I would have sucked as a dope addict! Freaked me out. Second shot I was mentally prepared so rode it out with no issue. Holy crap I am glad it is over.
Click to expand...

No fun zone. I'm fortunate that I can doze off during dental work with a chock block on place.
Had all my military stuff ripped out. That was a mess.

Hope they noted your reaction so they can find an alternative next time you're there
 
Mattax said:
If it was me, probably in this order.
1. leaks - leaks in the fuel supply to the bowls, and with a Holley, also the bowls.
2. High fuel level in the bowls causing some spillage/overflow. Remove top of air cleaner and see if the front or rear barrels look wet. Should not see wet on the boosters or throttle plates. If it has automatic choke, you'll have to open that to see down the front.
3. Normal venting from an open fuel system. Fuel bowl vents are open to the air cleaner and the gas tank is open to what? top of the fill tube?
It will be worse on hot days. Current pump fuel has a higher percentage of fuel that will vaporize between 100 and 130*F or so. The eth is part of the problem but its the entire formulation, so even eth free may or may not reduce that problem.
Some fuel distillation curves plotted in this post Video of boiling point of fuel


View attachment 1715959456
For the basics, Chrysler's Master Tech does a pretty good job. But if you look through posts on a couple other forums I used to participate in, the smart money was on those that read and understood the industry publications. These include books by Obert, Taylor, etc. along with publicly available NACA documents, etc. When they discussed performance characteristics they cited, and provided charts from those publications. I've reposted some here at FABO. I'm just riding these guys coat tails. If you want to dig deeper, you want posts from people who know and respect the research and testing done forauto industry as well as racing and planes that had to engage in air combat.
Example from "Tuner" here
racingfuelsystems-Desired Carburetor AFR Characteristics At Different % Load


So far. Yes.
Spark plugs will give some insight into what's happening in the cylinders. Of course it will be a mix of reactions from a range of conditions, but if its extremely rich in any of them that still should show up.

If you want to mess with tune, make small changes one at a time. For example with the main jets, drive at 60 or 65 mph. If its not surging then you can try a little leaner.
If it seems rich at idle or off idle. Check fuel level in the bowls. Check transfer slot visible under the throttles when at slow idle position. With those established (adjusted) then some small steps can be made.


For the off-idle to work properly the primary side transfer slots visible under the throttle at idle need to be in the range of .020 - .040"
You can check with feeler gage or drill bits.
While you're at it, write down how many 1/4 turns in of the idle speed screw from just touching gets .020, 030, and .040. Then you'll always know how far open the throttles are.

View attachment 1715959458
The more transfer slot exposed to vacuum at idle, the more fuel will get drawn from the slot rather than go through the idle port with the needle valve in it.
The reason for this is these carbs are designed to draw fuel from both the transfer slot and the idle port at slow idle.
When the throttle opens, already having fuel flowing from the transfer slot reduces the delay in increasing fuel to match the additional air.
If they are too far open at idle, then transfer slot happily supplies all the fuel the engine needs to idle.
View attachment 1715959457
Click to expand...

20220722_185652.jpg


20220722_185129.jpg


20220722_184450.jpg
 
toolmanmike said:
Check your fuel pressure. A buddy fought that with 2 engines and I figured out it was the fuel pump that got transferred to the new engine. He was running a Edelbrock and the pump was putting out 6# or so. Nothing you could do to lean it out. We put on a regulator, adjusted it to 4# and it ran like a champ. Something to check.
Click to expand...
This!!! I had an electric on the poly and sure as **** after you said this. I swapped to the factory mechanical pump and boom, problem solved
 
dukeboy_318 said:
This!!! I had an electric on the poly and sure as **** after you said this. I swapped to the factory mechanical pump and boom, problem solved
Click to expand...
Speaking of Polys, A friend passed away a year ago. He was all Mopar (Kit car guy) and owned a junk yard. I got a call a few days ago from another friend that has been liquidating his collection and estate. I'm going over tomorrow to see what is left. 360's for sure, a 413 from a late 50's 300, and at least a half dozen Polys. I will take pics and get the word out.
 
Sublime one said:
Well I am home from a solid two plus hours in dentists chair getting broken tooth repaired. It was zero fun. I took my ear buds and tried to drown out the drills and grinders with Joe Bonamassa shredding his guitar. Doc said I would have discomfort this afternoon and to take some ibuprofen. F that I am taking muscle relaxers and Bourbon. Holy smokes my jaw is sore. Dentist terrifies me. My pain tolerance is actually pretty high but I think it is the laying back upside down not being able to defend myself that amps me up. My fight or flight DNA is very strong! The first shot for numbing I thought holy crap I gotta do something my heart went into warp speed. I told Doc I needed to sit up and calm down for a minute. He then explained that the Novacain or whatever they use to numb you has a ingredient in it that can be a stimulant to the heart, like a epi pen. Turns out I am one of those that it has that effect on. My heart was racing. I then explained that I do not ingest caffeine or sugar as my body does not like stimulants. I would have sucked as a dope addict! Freaked me out. Second shot I was mentally prepared so rode it out with no issue. Holy crap I am glad it is over.
Click to expand...
Yeh, beating up the dentist is generally not acceptable behavior. :p
 
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