AFR MOPAR 340 HEAD TEST!

[junkyardhero]

It's a little disingenuous to say "65 hp for $1500" because you would have had to spend money on the iron heads to make them fresh enough to use, THEN add up your time porting them. So the actual cost difference in the real world is almost zero.

i agree whole heartedly. if you're starting from zero or your stuff needs work *something* aftermarket makes the most sense economy wise.

question: are the AFR's good enough to run OOTB? or do they need a once thru? and if they do what's the coin for that?

 

[NC Engine Builder]

i agree whole heartedly. if you're starting from zero or your stuff needs work *something* aftermarket makes the most sense economy wise.

question: are the AFR's good enough to run OOTB? or do they need a once thru? and if they do what's the coin for that?

I bought the set on the rodney dangerfield 318 bare from my supplier, and used there "house brand" (liberty performance) LS valves and spring package. They needed nothing, clearance was good, and valve job was nice also. So that set at least, were just bolt together and run.

 

[junkyardhero]

I bought the set on the rodney dangerfield 318 bare from my supplier, and used there "house brand" (liberty performance) LS valves and spring package. They needed nothing, clearance was good, and valve job was nice also. So that set at least, were just bolt together and run.

so likelihood is joe dickhead in his garage can just order up a set and be in like flynn? or is that something you wouldn't recommend?

 

[NC Engine Builder]

so likelihood is joe dickhead in his garage can just order up a set and be in like flynn? or is that something you wouldn't recommend?

That would have been ok on that set, but who knows with quality control these days.

 

[Oldiron440]

Me too but 365 isn’t “damn near” 400 in my book.

I thought it was 375 is getting closer… lol

 

[cookietruck]

10-20 more degrees and 0.050"-0.100" more lift would really wake that 340 up, I feel a lot are glossing over how small of a cam their running.

Little cam and the motor made 65hp more…for $1500
Seems pretty nice to me.
Especially if someone were looking at redoing steel heads.

It doesn't take much to tickle some.
I'd be depressed after spending $1500 for 65hp.

I guess i could’ve stated it a little clearer.
$1500 for some aluminum heads that make 65hp more than some factory heads that would cost $1000-1500 to redo.
So like NC Engine Builder said, the cost is basically the same.

 

[Oldiron440]

Little cam and the motor made 65hp more…for $1500
Seems pretty nice to me.
Especially if someone were looking at redoing steel heads.

I guess i could’ve stated it a little clearer.
$1500 for some aluminum heads that make 65hp more than some factory heads that would cost $1000-1500 to redo.
So like NC Engine Builder said, the cost is basically the same.

You guys are all assuming all iron heads are used up junk.

 

[B3422w5]

Great test. Just shows that aluminum heads are the way to go. Even with this mild cam they made significantly more power. Little more camshaft and the additional power would have shown more difference between the two.
Unless your a pureist, or a class you race in requires the iron stuff, no reason to not upgrade

 

[fishmens67]

Little cam and the motor made 65hp more…for $1500

just under $2000 for the AFR heads, I also wonder how the test would have compared to a decent pair of 2.02 X heads. The 360 head had 1.88 intake valves

 

[junkyardhero]

i don't know where everybody is getting 1500 from. summit's got the heads listed at a tick over 2K with tax.

then tack on a set of gaskets and consumables and you're at 21 easy money

 

[NC Engine Builder]

i don't know where everybody is getting 1500 from. summit's got the heads listed at a tick over 2K with tax.

then tack on a set of gaskets and consumables and you're at 21 easy money

Maybe I should start selling them. I could sell hand assembled for les than summit....hmmm

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

just under $2000 for the AFR heads, I also wonder how the test would have compared to a decent pair of 2.02 X heads. The 360 head had 1.88 intake valves

1.88 valve 360 915 heads =208 cfm
1.88 valve 360 587 heads=198 cfm
1.88 valve 360 596 heads.....

2.02 894 x heads= 225 cfm
2.02 915 J heads=232 cfm

Important is the .300-.450 flow, which is dung compared to aftermarket heads.

With the iron j,x,u,o,blah blah=170's cfm @.300
Speedmaster 180's@.300
Ideally you want the @.300 in the 190's-205 range to be considered good...and if .400 isnt 220+...make that 230-240 to a banger.
Low lift flow matters , period.

 

[92b]

100%

If the X heads or whatever heads are ported to similar specs as the AFR's I'd imagine the dyno results would be similar.

Minus the difference that can be attributed to the compression ratio difference and closed vs open chamber design.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Minus the difference that can be attributed to the compression ratio difference and closed vs open chamber design.

Or even fps differences in the ports.
Iron heads i have in the 280s are milled to 60cc and have about .028-.030 deep shallow sides cut for quench head clearance...and they're also a 186cc port
Bigger than eddy,speed,etc but a hair under trickflops...right in the range of a w2... but they're J heads.

 

[273]

Minus the difference that can be attributed to the compression ratio difference and closed vs open chamber design.

Nitpicker

Obviously if your gonna build an engine around factory iron heads you should take the steps to get the cr right.

 

[PRH]

You guys are all assuming all iron heads are used up junk.

It’s pretty rare that I get a set of 50+ year old factory heads that haven’t been to the machine shop at least once before they came to me.

It’s way more often that they’ve been done before, and often times…….not done very well.

The normal situation when they arrive here is, they need “everything”, and if there’s any kind or porting involved………along with upgraded hardware ………they’ll easily exceed the cost of these AFR heads.

Which is how those conversations often start out.
Caller is looking for a lower cost alternative to new aftermarket heads, and still wants to make “big powa”.
A set of something like SM heads is the lower cost alternative……..reworked factory iron isn’t.
(It might be at some shops, but it isn’t here)

 

[Mean416]

To me there's three basic classes of hotrod engine.

1. The budget cruiser. Built for cruising and max smiles/dollar invested. Could also be more of a daily driver deal. This would use those factory heads. They're cheap a domain reliable. No way I'd port them beyond the most basic touch-up of the short side area to remove the casting flash and random boogers.

2. The hotrod. This would use aluminum heads like AFR or Edelbrock. Stock or stroker. Has a host of other supporting upgrades intake hotter can exhaust etc. Still budget oriented but wanting a bit more output. Sub 500 horse small block. I'd never-consider factory iron heads for this.

3. The race car/street strip deal. Uses ported max effort heads like w series stuff or maybe bloomers.

I'm glad holdener did a test. I still don't understand why the hell AFR didn't do any real improvement to the ports over Edelbrock.

 

[PRH]

On something similar to what was used for this test, I wonder how much power difference there is between the AFR and an ootb SM head……which at the moment are about $850/pr less money.

 

[Earlie A]

On something similar to what was used for this test, I wonder how much power difference there is between the AFR and an ootb SM head……which at the moment are about $850/pr less money.

OOTB ProMaxx is the same casting as the AFR but with an 11/32 valve. In my testing the ProMaxx flows slightly better than the SM, but only slightly. So the only difference in power would be in the RPM potential of the 8mm valve vs the 11/32. That is unless AFR is doing their own valve job and blend which I kind of doubt. The AFR head displayed at PRI last December looked like a Chinese valve job.

Edit - Another possible difference between the OOTB AFR and the SM is a back cut on the valve.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I have some ported iron heads that I would definitely lend for a test like that.

Or even fps differences in the ports.
Iron heads i have in the 280s are milled to 60cc and have about .028-.030 deep shallow sides cut for quench head clearance...and they're also a 186cc port
Bigger than eddy,speed,etc but a hair under trickflops...right in the range of a w2... but they're J heads.

I could possibly set that up with Richard and Dulcich. But I’d bet Dulcich already has some ported iron x heads he’s going to test. Doesn’t hurt to ask if they’re interested.

 

[273]

I still don't understand why the hell AFR didn't do any real improvement to the ports over Edelbrock.

I agree they didn't up the game for ootb heads but bet most people probably want to be in the 400-475 hp range especially with stock stroke, I'm surprised that they and Edelbrock etc.. don't offer a cnc version to compete with TF's.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Hard pass on any more cast iron heads from Richard. He says Dulcich has ported X heads that might go across the dyno on that short block.

 

[92b]

Nitpicker

Obviously if your gonna build an engine around factory iron heads you should take the steps to get the cr right.

I think the opposite is more likely. If your building an engine and you want to get the quench and compression right you are more likely to use the aluminum heads. If you are building an engine with cast iron x heads your probably not going to the extra work and expense to
equal the compression of the aluminum heads or use a stepped piston to get the quench or have them ported for that matter. More likely if your building a motor with x heads it's because you already have them or can get them cheap. More likely a "valve job and bolt them on" scenario to save money. Of course there will always be exceptions like if they want all original or rules dictate or they are handy at doing the work themselves and like the challenge. I might find myself in that last category but usually regret it before i'm finished.

 

[273]

I think the opposite is more likely. If your building an engine and you want to get the quench and compression right you are more likely to use the aluminum heads. If you are building an engine with cast iron x heads your probably not going to the extra work and expense to
equal the compression of the aluminum heads or use a stepped piston to get the quench or have them ported for that matter. More likely if your building a motor with x heads it's because you already have them or can get them cheap. More likely a "valve job and bolt them on" scenario to save money. Of course there will always be exceptions like if they want all original or rules dictate or they are handy at doing the work themselves and like the challenge. I might find myself in that last category but usually regret it before i'm finished.

OMG your tedious

 

[PRH]

Hard pass on any more cast iron heads from Richard.

I’m shocked