1970 Swinger Build Thread (PURISTS BEWARE)

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Right, that's why I need to wait until I'm getting the K Frame built to know where I will put a shock mount. I've seen where some guys even have built a shock tower of sorts to help brace the factory shock hole, but I still don't like the idea of it.

I would love some more info on that limited slip, any information helps. I've been looking stuff up for months on this before posting the beginning of this build so I figured it's time to post what I'm doing to help contribute to this fantastic data base of information we call "For A Bodies Only".

As far as the track width thing, I have yo build a K frame to mount the C5 lower arms to so the track width can be whatever i want it to be. There's no reason I can't narrow things up over the Vette parts and actually have to anyways because the wheels are zero offset and I want to use a Mustang 2 steering rack which is much narrower and I would run into severe bumpsteer issues if I kept the Vette track width.

The C6 rear end idea keeps growing in me, but I'm not even sure howni would mount a rear subframe to bolt the center section and arms to. I guess I can look into the Heidts kits for Novas and Camaros to get a better idea how they do it. He did say he would cut me a deal and sell the C6 rear stuff for $300 if I took that too... Hmm.
 
Mason Coughlin said:
Right, that's why I need to wait until I'm getting the K Frame built to know where I will put a shock mount. I've seen where some guys even have built a shock tower of sorts to help brace the factory shock hole, but I still don't like the idea of it.

I would love some more info on that limited slip, any information helps. I've been looking stuff up for months on this before posting the beginning of this build so I figured it's time to post what I'm doing to help contribute to this fantastic data base of information we call "For A Bodies Only".

As far as the track width thing, I have yo build a K frame to mount the C5 lower arms to so the track width can be whatever i want it to be. There's no reason I can't narrow things up over the Vette parts and actually have to anyways because the wheels are zero offset and I want to use a Mustang 2 steering rack which is much narrower and I would run into severe bumpsteer issues if I kept the Vette track width.

The C6 rear end idea keeps growing in me, but I'm not even sure howni would mount a rear subframe to bolt the center section and arms to. I guess I can look into the Heidts kits for Novas and Camaros to get a better idea how they do it. He did say he would cut me a deal and sell the C6 rear stuff for $300 if I took that too... Hmm.
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300 is a steal for that stuff. As for narrowing it, I'm not sure how wide the LS is compared to my 440, but I know when i was thinking about it, in order for me to be able to fit rims and tires of that werent rubber ban widths, the control arms were going to mount in the way of the headers. I'm assuming the LS is narrower than the width of a 440 so you may be able to make it work. I'm for sure curious to see what you come up with. You're best best for the coil over mount would be to do what the RMS and the Gerst kits do, use a standalone mount. Then tie it into the K frame or the frame rails. I'm running the Gerst kit and while it is strong enough for road racing, I'm doing a triangulation, I'm going to tie the coil over mounts across the top of the engine, then to my roll cage and then to the cowl.
 
Mason Coughlin said:
Right, that's why I need to wait until I'm getting the K Frame built to know where I will put a shock mount. I've seen where some guys even have built a shock tower of sorts to help brace the factory shock hole, but I still don't like the idea of it.

I would love some more info on that limited slip, any information helps. I've been looking stuff up for months on this before posting the beginning of this build so I figured it's time to post what I'm doing to help contribute to this fantastic data base of information we call "For A Bodies Only".

As far as the track width thing, I have yo build a K frame to mount the C5 lower arms to so the track width can be whatever i want it to be. There's no reason I can't narrow things up over the Vette parts and actually have to anyways because the wheels are zero offset and I want to use a Mustang 2 steering rack which is much narrower and I would run into severe bumpsteer issues if I kept the Vette track width.

The C6 rear end idea keeps growing in me, but I'm not even sure howni would mount a rear subframe to bolt the center section and arms to. I guess I can look into the Heidts kits for Novas and Camaros to get a better idea how they do it. He did say he would cut me a deal and sell the C6 rear stuff for $300 if I took that too... Hmm.
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this is copied from my emails from Ron Sutton:

"Differentials

For the track, I run & recommend Detroit Lockers, because they will handle 600-900hp, hard launches & aggressive shifting ... live ... and completely disconnect the inside rear tire in the roll through zone of a corner ... then re-engage like a spool on corner exit. BUT most people find the loud clunking noise very distracting & annoying for everyday street driving.

For a more civilized approach on the street, especially with daily drivers, many people prefer a tamer Detroit Wavetrac, Truetrac, clutch or cone style positraction. None of these will hold up like a Detroit locker, but they behave more civilized. Any differential, that doesn’t fully & completely disconnect the inside wheel from power … is contributing to a tight handling condition in the middle of the corner known as the “roll through zone.”

"Most" of the small helical gear type differentials use a method of pre-loading the unit which affects how the power is distributed under throttle on corner exit. And unfortunately they wear ... and as they wear … and the power distribution changes ... making the car handle differently on corner exits. Not good.

For track performance, nothing beats a Detroit Locker ... with the right spring rate in it. In racing, we tune the lockers with different spring rates from 25# to 125#. (See locker springs HERE) The softer the spring the easier it releases when turning. The stiffer the spring, the more it takes to get it to release.

New stock, off the shelf Detroit Lockers come with too stiff of springs (78#) for what we do, so they need to be changed. A lot of guys are finding deals on used lockers, but the challenge with buying a used Drag Race or NASCAR locker is you don't know what springs are in it. They are easy enough to take apart & see ... or replace the springs. On big tracks like Daytona & Talladega the last thing you want is for the locker to release. So they run the 110# to 125# springs. If you bought a used NASCAR locker with that much spring rate, it would be a bear to get it to unlock. With street tires, I don't think the tires have enough grip to force those 110# to 125# springs to unlock consistently ... if ever ... and would on occasion/often simply slide the tires instead. Drag racers typically leave the stock 78# spring in, which is still too much spring rate for what we do here. For road racing & autoX, the hot ticket is softer springs. The key to picking locker springs is based on rear tire grip. The less you have the softer the spring needs to be.

From my experience, this is what I recommend …
• 40# ... Street, autoX & track cars with 10"+ TW200 street tires.
• 55# ... Track cars on 10”+ slicks & race cars.

As a rule of thumb, you can go softer 1 step, but don’t go stiffer. The key to making lockers work well is getting them to disengage in tight corners. Of course they need to re-engage too. So you wouldn’t want to run way too soft of a spring. Having said that ... there is no disadvantage to running a 40# spring with slicks on road courses. My Warrior cars come with 40# springs in the locker, so they perform just as well on TW200 tires as they do on slicks. "
 
That's a really interesting write up. I'm going to save all that information. The Wagoneer has a Detroit Locker in the rear, but it was in it when I bought the axles and have no idea what spring rate would have been in it. That's definately something I will look into seeing as I'm sure my Sure Grip will need a rebuild anyways
 
Mason Coughlin said:
That's a really interesting write up. I'm going to save all that information. The Wagoneer has a Detroit Locker in the rear, but it was in it when I bought the axles and have no idea what spring rate would have been in it. That's definately something I will look into seeing as I'm sure my Sure Grip will need a rebuild anyways
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Not sure the spring rates in the sure grip unit can be changed out.
 
Today was my only day off this week so I got very little done, but I did get the fuel tank and rear end removed. I have to figure out what I want to do for an in-tank fuel pump. I've been eyeballing the Aeromotive Stealth 340 system. It's got its own foam baffle which allows you to convert the old carburated tank to fuel injection without the fear of starving the sump due to fuel sloshing around. The rear end came out fairly easy. These factory leafs are trash. They were sagging so bad that they used these cheap generic coilovers to boost the rear up and it still sat too low. I'm all for low ride height, buts uts got to atleast be dampened properly...

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I also dug out the Nissan transmission, set the G Force Crossmembers adapter plate on it and lined it up with the back of the block just to get a super rough idea where everything will sit. The external shifter puts the it way too far towards the rear. I've seen where guys who swap these transmissions into Datsun 240Z's run into the same problem and pretty much cut the center out of the dog bone and gain 2" or so. Worst case scenario is that I can run a small Z bend shifter forward to bring it to a comfortable location. Luckily being 6 foot tall means I like my seat back a ways so it may not be as big of an issue for me as others.

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I need some opinions on the 8 3/4 rear end... some guys say it's comparable to Ford 9" strength and some guys say is only rated for 500hp. I talked to Moser about it a liyyle. The guy I spoke with said that with their alloy axles (which i need anyways to change bolt pattern) and a back brace it might hold more power, but mine is o my a 741 3rd member so possibly not.

I've considered narrowing mine to give me more options for wheels with zero offset. I can do the work myself, but by the time I buy the leaf spring inboard kit, axle shafts, back brace, clutch rebuild kit for my Sure Grip, u bolts, new leaf springs, housing ends and disc brakes, I'm going to have a ton of money into it and then could still possibly have a failure...


Or... take everyone else's advice on the C6 Vette rear suspension parts. As far as I know they are still available for $300 and include the breaks and wheel bearings just like the front. But then I would need a center section and CV's.

After talking to a friend about another friend's LS2 swapped RX7 and the rear end setup in that, I got an idea. Ford Explorer 8.8 diffs have limited slips and 3.55 or 3.73 gears. Plus they are aluminum and have edgier diff mounts than something like the Cobra Mustangs. I can get one out of an 07-10 Explorer for around $350 unless I find one in a local pick n pull then it would be $85. The kit for RX-7's says that they have customers with 1,000hp through them and haven't broke them.

The next problem would become the CV shafts... I called The Drive Shaft Shop because it seems like they are the leader in aftermarket CV shafts. He said it would be no issue to adapt the 8.8 to the Vette wheel bearings. They build shafts for both the Corvettes as well as the Cobra Mustangs and all they would need is the length measurement at ride height and suspension travel and I would be all set. The big kicker though was the price...

$1700!!!

So I'm not 100 percent sure what to do about it but I'm pretty sure my A Body 8 3/4 will be for sale complete with drum brakes, parking brake cables, and anything else anyone wants so shoot me an offer on it!

Here's a pic of the Vette rear suspension from his Craigslist ad
00R0R_lb9tOGyTqIP_600x450.jpg
 
Mason Coughlin said:
I need some opinions on the 8 3/4 rear end... some guys say it's comparable to Ford 9" strength and some guys say is only rated for 500hp. I talked to Moser about it a liyyle. The guy I spoke with said that with their alloy axles (which i need anyways to change bolt pattern) and a back brace it might hold more power, but mine is o my a 741 3rd member so possibly not.

I've considered narrowing mine to give me more options for wheels with zero offset. I can do the work myself, but by the time I buy the leaf spring inboard kit, axle shafts, back brace, clutch rebuild kit for my Sure Grip, u bolts, new leaf springs, housing ends and disc brakes, I'm going to have a ton of money into it and then could still possibly have a failure...


Or... take everyone else's advice on the C6 Vette rear suspension parts. As far as I know they are still available for $300 and include the breaks and wheel bearings just like the front. But then I would need a center section and CV's.

After talking to a friend about another friend's LS2 swapped RX7 and the rear end setup in that, I got an idea. Ford Explorer 8.8 diffs have limited slips and 3.55 or 3.73 gears. Plus they are aluminum and have edgier diff mounts than something like the Cobra Mustangs. I can get one out of an 07-10 Explorer for around $350 unless I find one in a local pick n pull then it would be $85. The kit for RX-7's says that they have customers with 1,000hp through them and haven't broke them.

The next problem would become the CV shafts... I called The Drive Shaft Shop because it seems like they are the leader in aftermarket CV shafts. He said it would be no issue to adapt the 8.8 to the Vette wheel bearings. They build shafts for both the Corvettes as well as the Cobra Mustangs and all they would need is the length measurement at ride height and suspension travel and I would be all set. The big kicker though was the price...

$1700!!!

So I'm not 100 percent sure what to do about it but I'm pretty sure my A Body 8 3/4 will be for sale complete with drum brakes, parking brake cables, and anything else anyone wants so shoot me an offer on it!

Here's a pic of the Vette rear suspension from his Craigslist ad
View attachment 1715129606
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The 8.75 is an underrated axle in terms of strength, stronger than a factory Ford 9 inch. And way stronger than an 8.8 Ford.

Here's a good read

Moparts on the Web - Main Index


That said, north of 650-700 hp, I'd run a Dana 60. Im not sure what the c5 set up is capable for but I'd still consider it for an autocross or road race car, drag strip with slicks, Dana 60 for sure
 
The LS swap is turning into the Chevy small block of the muscle car world. It is an affordable way to make power but it’s not my cup of tea.

The small block reference is about street rods with a sbc Chevy trans and ford 9”. It’s just over done.

With that being said it is not my car so do with it what you want and enjoy it.
 
Well it comes down to 3 things:

I can't afford Mopar parts. Sorry, but that's the truth. I've got too many other hobbies that I like to do that take priority over this project.

I already stated in the into post that I am a Chevy guy at heart who fell in love with the looks of a Swinger (sounds like the title to a bad country song...)

And I actually want to drive the car. If you enjoy taking the car to car shows and putting 400 miles on it a year, then great, but that's not me. That's why I want fuel injection, reliability and a tall overdrive.
 
I had a buddy that was a born hotrodder. He would take a perfectly good chevy and drop in a Ford engine. He asked me one day, if he looked like his dad. I guess he wondered if he was a bastard child. I told him , no... and no more than his Chevy/Ford thing he birthed!?
Gve er Hell!
 
"I cannot afford Mopar parts"
is nothing more than an excuse to put some lame *** Chevy engine in a dodge. im broke asf too but I know where to look and I have had great success building my tunnel rammed gold 440's. that excuse is just as overdone as the swap itself.
enjoy
 
I will enjoy every bit of it. You guys were warned in the title about this swap, and if you are going to flame, then get out. I'm not doing this thread for me, I'm doing it to hopefully answer questions that other people in the future may have. LS swaps may be "over done" but isn't a big block swapped A Body "over done" then? Why would I want an engine that weighs 300lbs more and makes less power, drinks more fuel, and is 6 times the cost? Because of nostalgia? I already said I'm not a Mopar guy, but I love the style of this Swinger so nostalgia means nothing to me. Remember I'm building this car for me..
 
Mason Coughlin said:
I will enjoy every bit of it. You guys were warned in the title about this swap, and if you are going to flame, then get out. I'm not doing this thread for me, I'm doing it to hopefully answer questions that other people in the future may have. LS swaps may be "over done" but isn't a big block swapped A Body "over done" then? Why would I want an engine that weighs 300lbs more and makes less power, drinks more fuel, and is 6 times the cost? Because of nostalgia? I already said I'm not a Mopar guy, but I love the style of this Swinger so nostalgia means nothing to me. Remember I'm building this car for me..
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So much wrong in this post.
 
I am glad the OP loves the look of his Swinger. But all his excuses are lame as far as why to drop in his LS. But it is his car, his money, and I personally question his rationale for posting his build here on FABO. Hotroding is a great hobby, but........ reminds me of people that are determined to drop a SB chevy in their 50's Dodge street rod>> OK so the SB chevy is cheaper, BUT WTF , buy a GM and put the SB chevy motor in that!??
.Maybe this build would do better in a hotrod link? But, Maybe there are some people on this site interested in this. Dunno. Doesn't bother me either way. Since FABO is a discussion site, guess I am just discussing.
 
I can promise you it didn't cost me 6 times the money to make less power and drink twice the gas. my 1000 dollar home built 440 will suck the underwear right off your *** through your passenger side window lololol
personally I don't give a rats *** what you do to your car, but there's no need to make excuses or badmouth what you don't know. it looks to me like you have plenty of money to throw around and are maybe scared of making real power lmao!
 
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I think a lot of you guys that get bent about swaps are looking at things backwards. I have never heard of anyone buying a Mopar to swap in another motor. All the swaps I know of went down the same way. The person who owns the car explored all the options to keep it all Mopar, and decided that their goals could not be met with Mopar parts. The OP (admittedly not a Mopar guy) even stated that he explored the Mopar route including the G3 option.

If it was still the 80's I wouldn't even consider a swap. Times have changed and my expectations have too.
 
73AbodEE said:
I can promise you it didn't cost me 6 times the money to make less power and drink twice the gas. my 1000 dollar home built 440 will suck the underwear right off your *** through your passenger side window lololol
personally I don't give a rats *** what you do to your car, but there's no need to make excuses or badmouth what you don't know. it looks to me like you have plenty of money to throw around and are maybe scared of making real power lmao!
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:thankyou:
 
OP it's your car, your way..... You made your warning clear about your intent in the subject line (lol) but the human race just like to discuss things whether you like it or not. And for the most part the group here are somewhat "purist" I do believe. But there will be a group of followers who will watch you put this together.

There is no denying the LS is a bad ****. It does everything right and the aftermarket has embraced it and that alone is huge. That's what makes a build like this seem plausible really. If you think this is tough on the Mopar guys, try your Fox body purist. It's one thing to see something like this in a mopar which is rare but imagine Mr. Mustang guy having to see this over and over again in their poor Foxbody lol.....

I am curious when you get to the underside of the project and how it all fits and what needs to be done so you can drive it.

Looking good,
JW
 
I was thinking 15 years or more back, one day we would start to see our 60's, 70's mopars begin to go the way of the street rodder somewhat , ya know, aftermarket steering tilt columns, aftermarket ( not oem style) wiring, chevy ignition, custom upholstery - paint jobs, changing out the grills for? etc, maybe even seeing chevy engine installed because the younger not knowledgeable generation believe they will build a better /cheaper engine that way......?????????? or they just want to ??????????????????/ or say, I built it my way because I had a gm engine sitting her and a mopar engine will cost me some $$ >>>????//
But a few years or so back, the street rodder got to building some old mopes out of the 40's, 50's and actually wanted mopar power in it!!!!!! NO a SB chevy..YES! Ha
I figure there is not shortage of A bodies so if someone want to "do it his way", so be it!!

Heck I even feel somewhat guilty from pulling some of the "crap" off my 79 Volare. So I put it a box if the next guy wants it back to stock original!!!! ha
 
if the assholes at chrysler weren't so anti enthusiast for so long you might see less of this type of swaps. but fact of the matter is that there is far more aftermarket support for a LS then a modern hemi.. just the way it is, can't argue the fact ... looks to me like a smart swap.. i believe the LS is a little more narrow then the hemi and fits an a-body well..
 
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