1978 318

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I think the whiplash will be fine. Hughes moves around the timing events to help low compression engines. That is the whole idea and thinking with Hughes and that cam along with getting that idle sounding mean.

W/a intake duration of 213@050, it will be good. No torque converter change required I think. My old Crane at 218 didn’t need it.

As I stated first, up top....

dieselman966 said:
I have a dual plane intake for it. It was for my 360 magnum swap I did in my scamp. The motor I got ended up having the edelbrock swap manifold on it already though. So ge is gonna use that with a edelbrock 600 I had laying around. What camshaft would be better? The whiplash one or just a small "rv" style cam?
Click to expand...
 
dieselman966 said:
They said the same thing about my 352 in my galaxie. Get a 390 and stick 3k of work into that. The money wasn't there at the time for all that. I did have enough to deck the block .085 and mill the heads .020. Upgraded the camshaft and valve springs and now the car will do a burn out. It wouldn't even hint at that before.

So heads and a cam along with more compression is worth maybe 35hp in a 318? I really wonder why people even mess with these motors then. I bought a gm 6.0l with a 4l80e and all the accessories and wiring harness for $850. I'm pretty sure another $1000 would cover putting that into whatever I want to. 300+ hp all day long that I could cruise with overdrive. Why waste money on these old mopar engines if they don't perform?

I talked to a machine shop today in my area. He quoted me 3500 to 4000 for an assembled 392 short block. I'm sure this would perform better buy why stop there. We could source a smog era 440 for less than 1000 and with some minor upgrades that would probably be ahead of the 392.
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The heads n cam, headers should be worth close to 50hp given they are also a smaller chamber volume or no less than equal to.
If the compression went up, the heads were ported, the headers were step tti's..that could multiply '400's range'. Focus on the main things, air flow ,cam, compression and it will run hard.
I have a rebuilt low mile 318 I bet I could toss my 60cc j heads on, a .528 solid cam , ld340 and some headers and make 400+hp easy.
****, it just happens to be a 318 casting that'll go 4.040..so why 340 pistons.. lol junk that'll run.
 
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rumblefish360 said:
Here’s my thing....

If you ask for help with your problem/engine/whatever...
Do you really need some asshole answering you in a non helpful manor while dumping a turd on your question and goals? Is amazing how so many people will just overlook the question and suggest spending 10K of your money like it’s chump change in your wallet.

They will say, start with a bigger engine, & suggest a 360. I say, Hypocrites! It’s such is the case, why did they not suggest a big block? It’s too damn easy to suggest something completely out of the realm or of the question that needs to be answered. If your buddy wants to hop up at 3:18, so be it! I have no issue with it. I would rather help then be a hindrance or a jerk that’s just suggests something that’s really not helpful.

A good while back I did a 318 on the cheap hop up in response to this Attitude since I had a free 318 in decent shape. I had some fun with it. I wasn’t able to complete the task. Sold the car.
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I suggested the 360 on the fact that it wouldn’t require a different trans or accessory drive. Stepping up to big block is expensive if you have buy everything to put in a big block.
 
Real world experience with a 318, also in a 78 Power Wagon.
I would just put a new timing chain in it, the original will be shot.
Add 4bbl and intake.
Cheap headers fit fine on these trucks, do use the mini starter.
For the header installation, on hooker headers, throw the instructions away.
Remove the starter, push the drivers header up from the bottom, with the truck sitting on car ramps.
Passenger side, remove the oil filter and drop in from the top bolt them on, no dents required.
Add a good duel exhaust.
That is going to give you the best bang for buck on a 318, and it still will be lazy, but parts can be used on another engine, that is as much money I would spend on it.
 
You guys are leading him down a crazy path. Com'on 35 hp, 50 hp, 100 hp, it doesn't matter, if all you can hit is a low 3000 rpm at 30 mph, with a wet-noodle 7.5 Scr engine. Sure it will make the power when you wind it up;so what, when is that gonna happen?; you gotta get to where the power is first. And by building a wet noodle at low rpm, it's just gonna make the getting there slower; what good will that do?
If the W200 is pushing Five Thousand Pounds,what good will 250 hp, or 300, or 325, be at 5200,5400,5600 rpm where that could be 50/52/54 mph? While at 2000stall,, if it makes 150 ftlbs, that is 57 hp! If you can't spin the tires it's a long pull to find the power, made even longer by the oh-so soft Scr.
Com'on bash me some more
We don't even know his gears, his tire size,or his current TC and already the handwriting is on the wall, for radical failure of the combo.

And what does the 213/223 Whiplash bring to the table, below 3000/3500rpm, that the Factory Magnum cam can't. Poser idle that is all. Work the numbers for yourself, they are both in slanty territory! Of course the numbers are just numbers; but it's all we have.
I'm not talking absolute power, cuz I don't care about absolute, cuz I can't get to absolute power, until maybe 50 mph. Great, I got passing power, is that what OP asked for?
No!
He said something about it would be nice if the thing could get out of it's own way.

OP; Here's the deal; with a given engine and transmission;
low-rpm acceleration is killed by;
vehicle weight,
a low stall TC,
low Effective gearing; Meaning tall tires and numerically low differential gears,
a small displacement engine with a short stroke,
low cylinder pressure,
poor tuning.
Your W200, if stock; you didn't say, has all of those.
Low rpm acceleration, from factory stall of maybe 2000 in that truck, to say 3000rpm, if you cannot spin the tires, is NOT helped hardly one tiny bit by;
A bigger same-type cam; actually without a compression increase or an earlier closing intake, the bigger cam is practically guaranteed to lose low-rpm performance, that you cannot get back with ;
A bigger carb,or
hi-flow heads, or
Headers.
If I misunderstood "get out of it's own way" then my answer would have been different.

Five thousand pounds needs torque.
Your first go-to is a higher stall TC, cuz at higher rpm, your engine has more torque... which translates to more power.
Your second go-to is TM (Torque Multiplication). In first gear, and to some extent second, this is a really big deal. In fact you can easily add 50 to perhaps 80/90 % TM to your combo, with rear gearing.
Or you can get it with cubes. Bigger engines naturally produce more of it.
Or with supercharging, and then it will go into third gear, as well.
Com'on bash me some more
 
I think everyone gets what you are saying. But from what you are saying this isn't even worth the effort. We my as well just leave it be. I find it hard to believe that it womt be noticeable at all. Smaller chamber heads with bigger valve should bump up the compression some. Depending on the piston clearance we could run a thinner head gasket to help with quench and compression. Is it a perfect plan not at all Will it be an improvement? You betcha. And it will work nice with the stroker kit down the road. I had people telling me the same thing with my 352. And you know what they were right. I should have held out and got a 390 for my car. But it definitely made a difference. My car went from making a bunch of noise to running ok now. Is it all that I wanted? No not even close but it will hold me over until I can stroke it out to a 445.

The run down on his truck is a it's a stock rebuilt 318 with a 2bbl carb and intake. 4.10 gears front and back with 31" tires. It has the 727 with a fulltime np203 transfercase in it. Timing is set at *14 initial with *22 mechanical for *36 all in by 3400 rpm. The plan is to ditch the np203 for a part time np205. At that time we will probably change the converter also. Maybe a turbo would be the better option here with the low compression.

AJ/FormS said:
You guys are leading him down a crazy path. Com'on 35 hp, 50 hp, 100 hp, it doesn't matter, if all you can hit is a low 3000 rpm at 30 mph, with a wet-noodle 7.5 Scr engine. Sure it will make the power when you wind it up;so what, when is that gonna happen?; you gotta get to where the power is first. And by building a wet noodle at low rpm, it's just gonna make the getting there slower; what good will that do?
If the W200 is pushing Five Thousand Pounds,what good will 250 hp, or 300, or 325, be at 5200,5400,5600 rpm where that could be 50/52/54 mph? While at 2000stall,, if it makes 150 ftlbs, that is 57 hp! If you can't spin the tires it's a long pull to find the power, made even longer by the oh-so soft Scr.
Com'on bash me some more
We don't even know his gears, his tire size,or his current TC and already the handwriting is on the wall, for radical failure of the combo.

And what does the 213/223 Whiplash bring to the table, below 3000/3500rpm, that the Factory Magnum cam can't. Poser idle that is all. Work the numbers for yourself, they are both in slanty territory! Of course the numbers are just numbers; but it's all we have.
I'm not talking absolute power, cuz I don't care about absolute, cuz I can't get to absolute power, until maybe 50 mph. Great, I got passing power, is that what OP asked for?
No!
He said something about it would be nice if the thing could get out of it's own way.

OP; Here's the deal; with a given engine and transmission;
low-rpm acceleration is killed by;
vehicle weight,
a low stall TC,
low Effective gearing; Meaning tall tires and numerically low differential gears,
a small displacement engine with a short stroke,
low cylinder pressure,
poor tuning.
Your W200, if stock; you didn't say, has all of those.
Low rpm acceleration, from factory stall of maybe 2000 in that truck, to say 3000rpm, if you cannot spin the tires, is NOT helped hardly one tiny bit by;
A bigger same-type cam; actually without a compression increase or an earlier closing intake, the bigger cam is practically guaranteed to lose low-rpm performance, that you cannot get back with ;
A bigger carb,or
hi-flow heads, or
Headers.
If I misunderstood "get out of it's own way" then my answer would have been different.

Five thousand pounds needs torque.
Your first go-to is a higher stall TC, cuz at higher rpm, your engine has more torque... which translates to more power.
Your second go-to is TM (Torque Multiplication). In first gear, and to some extent second, this is a really big deal. In fact you can easily add 50 to perhaps 80/90 % TM to your combo, with rear gearing.
Or you can get it with cubes. Bigger engines naturally produce more of it.
Or with supercharging, and then it will go into third gear, as well.
Com'on bash me some more
Click to expand...
 
AJ/FormS =‘s the, Anti-318 man!

Ether dump the 318 or he dumps on you.

(Even if you don’t have money or much less you don’t have money to start a new from scratch build with a bigger engine!)
 
dieselman966 said:
I think everyone gets what you are saying. But from what you are saying this isn't even worth the effort. We my as well just leave it be. I find it hard to believe that it womt be noticeable at all. Smaller chamber heads with bigger valve should bump up the compression some. Depending on the piston clearance we could run a thinner head gasket to help with quench and compression. Is it a perfect plan not at all Will it be an improvement? You betcha. And it will work nice with the stroker kit down the road. I had people telling me the same thing with my 352. And you know what they were right. I should have held out and got a 390 for my car. But it definitely made a difference. My car went from making a bunch of noise to running ok now. Is it all that I wanted? No not even close but it will hold me over until I can stroke it out to a 445.

The run down on his truck is a it's a stock rebuilt 318 with a 2bbl carb and intake. 4.10 gears front and back with 31" tires. It has the 727 with a fulltime np203 transfercase in it. Timing is set at *14 initial with *22 mechanical for *36 all in by 3400 rpm. The plan is to ditch the np203 for a part time np205. At that time we will probably change the converter also. Maybe a turbo would be the better option here with the low compression.
Click to expand...


Don't ditch the np203. Get a doubler kit to make a np203-np205 doubler using the range box from the 203 bolted to the 205.
 
dieselman966 said:
I think everyone gets what you are saying. But from what you are saying this isn't even worth the effort. We my as well just leave it be. I find it hard to believe that it womt be noticeable at all. Smaller chamber heads with bigger valve should bump up the compression some. Depending on the piston clearance we could run a thinner head gasket to help with quench and compression. Is it a perfect plan not at all Will it be an improvement? You betcha. And it will work nice with the stroker kit down the road. I had people telling me the same thing with my 352. And you know what they were right. I should have held out and got a 390 for my car. But it definitely made a difference. My car went from making a bunch of noise to running ok now. Is it all that I wanted? No not even close but it will hold me over until I can stroke it out to a 445.

The run down on his truck is a it's a stock rebuilt 318 with a 2bbl carb and intake. 4.10 gears front and back with 31" tires. It has the 727 with a fulltime np203 transfercase in it. Timing is set at *14 initial with *22 mechanical for *36 all in by 3400 rpm. The plan is to ditch the np203 for a part time np205. At that time we will probably change the converter also. Maybe a turbo would be the better option here with the low compression.
Click to expand...
Do a compression check, head gaskets may help your compression.
If they used standard rebuilder head gasket most likely they are .040” thick, stock steel shim gaskets were like .020 thick and are not available anymore.
 
hp cam is also all wrong
if already owns the whiplash run it
else the jones motorhome cam or a 205 voodoo or the 205 howards with the 15 in the note column would work better vut with the lca squeezed down to 107 and that icl well compare the intake close point
oops Whiplash does not give you the seat timing
so go to the Howards lobe list and find the whiplash lobe then figure it out
 
I would think you would gain 1/2 a point of compression with the EQ heads and the felpro 1008 head gasket. Should get you to roughly 8.5:1 depending on how far in the hole the pistons are. With the whiplash cam, I think you should see a decent gain. My magnum 318 with a small 204/208 cam made 247 rwhp/265 rwtq. That is with a single plane mpi intake.
 
Well down the rabbit hole we go. Took a head off to see how fresh the rebuild was! Not at all. Looks to be not rebuilt at all. Pistons were in the hole around .080 still. So I had to twist his arm into a stroker kit to go along with his EQ heads. Not sure what well do for a cam yet. Were waiting for the builders recommendation still. Stroking it to a 390 though and I'm trying to talk him into a 3000 rpm or higher stall. What the converter to run? I have a buddy that runs a tci 4000 rpm stall behind his stroked 440.
 
Johnny Mac at blueprint engines has a stroker short block I believe for less than 3000 and it has a warranty on it.

That 203 transfer case changes the 4.10s into 8.20's. Then by putting the 205 behind it that turns your 8.20's into 16.40s
 
dieselman966 said:
My brother has a 78 w200 with a 318. Hes wanting more power. I've talked him into ditching the stock 4027593 heads for some aftermarket cast iron ones. What's everyone running on here for after market cast iron heads? The EQ sound nice. Would they perform good with a stock bottom end and a Hughes whiplash camshaft. Were not looking to own the street but it would be nice if the truck would get out of it own way.
Click to expand...

318 heads are pretty weak in the flow department, but it depends on the power level your looking for might not need a head swap.

There’s a magazine build where they do a stock 318 and just add 4bbl headers and a comp xe262h cam and get 282hp @ 5000 rpm, where it’s a truck you could drop down to a 256 or 250 with a little loss to top end.
 
273 said:
318 heads are pretty weak in the flow department, but it depends on the power level your looking for might not need a head swap.

There’s a magazine build where they do a stock 318 and just add 4bbl headers and a comp xe262h cam and get 282hp @ 5000 rpm, where it’s a truck you could drop down to a 256 or 250 with a little loss to top end.
Click to expand...

Were way past stock now. It's getting a stroker kit and the EQ heads for sure. The heads are supposed to be good for 475 hp or 575 hp. I forget what the site said.
 
Here is what Johnny posted.

Per your requests, I have come up with a new shortblock design based on our new, roller 408.

Part #: BPC4085
$2799

Not on the website yet. may be a while for that. But I CAN/WILL take orders.

  • Roller Cam
    Cast Steel Crank
    Forged Pistons
BLOCK:
  • Hand picked seasoned block
    Square and parallel decked
    Align honed main bearing bore
    Cylinders honed on computer controlled machine to within .0002 straightness and roundness
    Cylinders are sonic tested for thickness
    2-Bolt Main
    4.000" Bored .040" over
    2-Piece Rear Main Seal
    Mech fuel pump provision: Yes
ROTATING ASSEMBLY:
  • New Cast steel crankshaft
    4.000" Stroke
    OEM type 6.123" connecting rods w/ 150,000 psi bolts
    Forged pistons
    Magnum Balance Snout, LA360 balanced rear
  • Supports cylinder heads/rockers that can utilize pushrod oiling only.

New BluePrint Engines 408 Shortblock Part #: BPC4085. Roller Cam Ready
 
dieselman966 said:
EQ heads for sure. The heads are supposed to be good for 475 hp or 575 hp
Click to expand...
The EQ heads will only be good for 475 hp or beyond (sure not 575... typo?) when fully ported. FABO member RAMM did a build years ago with max ported EQ heads that made around 575HP on a 414 stroker.
 
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Some folks me Included like the idea of a spiced up 318. Mainly because a lot of people overlook them just because of their displacement. I am putting a 360 in my dart and plan on building a 318 I have in my shed for a future ? Build. Just for the coolness of a fun 318. That's it
 
stixx said:
The EQ heads will only be good for 475 hp or beyond (sure not 575... typo?) when fully ported. FABO member RAMM did a build years ago with max ported EQ heads that made around 575HP on a 414 stroker.
Click to expand...

I couldn't remember what the my had posted about the heads on there site. 475 sounds right.

Here what the site says about them.

  • Stock location for headers, valve train, and front end accessories
  • 2.02" stainless intake and 1.625" stainless exhaust valves
  • valve spring 125# seat 315# open @ .575 lift max
  • 8mm valve stems
  • 172 cc intake runners and 72 cc exhaust runner
  • 62cc combustion chamber
  • Ductile iron exhaust seat to reduce cracking
  • Manganese bronze valve guides
 
you can always feed those shaft heads from the back of the block instead of the cam bearing
you are going to pull them down to check anyway
 
That’s a lotta work on an iron head to drill them out to feed them oil. WOW! Surprised you even suggested that but, it is a viable route.
 
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