The air in the filter comes in from the bowl vent.
318 fuel line empties after running hot. Why???
- Thread starter cudaracer
- Start date
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TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Exactly, and then when the bowl level evaporates a little bit the float needle opens and there ya go. (Fuel free flows back down the line through the pump)
One of our members added a check valve in his line to cure that.
I'm sure it works, but the gpm through a check valve would concern be a bit till I verified the volume it could allow.
I'll say this again
, Eddies are horrible about fuel evaporation and heatsoak.Also the evaporation puddles that evap mist in the intake.
Have you (OP) noticed how the engine runs real rich for a few after what you decribed about hard to start after it sits for a few?
(I think instead of having to pump the fuel back to the carb after sitting it's actually a little flooded)
I know this seems almost impossible, but have you noticed the engine fires once or twice imediately upon turning the key and then 5 seconds or so of cranking it fires up but acts kinda wiggy for a min or so? (It's flooding from the evap fumes)
There must be at least 8-10 of us that have Eddie carbs and the exact same symtoms.
This is one symtom that the electric pump won't cure by itself.
Well, I agree with the evap issue on the carbs, I went with a different carb when I was having issues with my Thermoquad.
However, it didn't happen in 5-10 minutes, it usually took a day or two of sitting to give me fits.
I suppose it could be the issue, but for that gas to evaporate in 5 minutes and drain the filter makes me curious.
moper
Well-Known Member
I don't have issues with any of them. But as you noted - when they sat for a week 20 years ago they'd still start with one or two pumps to set the choke and prime it. Now if they've been off for a day or two I have to turn it over a bit (10-15 seconds) to fill the bowl, then pump once and go.
Yup, 20, 30 years ago we weren't dealing with this crap gas we get today.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
I meant when the carb is hot and the fuel evaporates enough to open the needle.
Only takes a little bit for the needle to open, and when the carb is hot it only takes a small amount of time.
That's the theory anyway.
cudaracer
Well-Known Member
Here is the problem I have with this whole “crappy fuel today” discussion.
I bought a $600 Snapper mower last fall, after trading in my second Toro which also had a short service life yet again (this time it was a crappy cheap Personal Pace drive system that went). I have run several tanks of gas through it and it suddenly died and would not run past a rough idle, then die again. I used Mobil gas, purchased new this spring.
So after picking it up yesterday after warranty repair, he claimed it was a fouled plug, blaming the gas. I said I got it in April, he said that is already past it’s shelf life of 2 months. WTF? I mentioned how I cut my elderly fathers lawn with a 25 year old mower, with any gas that happens to be laying around, often for a year or so, and that it’s whole life is probably on the second plug. He then deferred blame to how engines were tuned differently or setup differently or whatever.
I call BS. And now that I think of it, I should have asked to see the fouled plug.
So frustrated, and I wonder why I just don’t use a service.
I bought a $600 Snapper mower last fall, after trading in my second Toro which also had a short service life yet again (this time it was a crappy cheap Personal Pace drive system that went). I have run several tanks of gas through it and it suddenly died and would not run past a rough idle, then die again. I used Mobil gas, purchased new this spring.
So after picking it up yesterday after warranty repair, he claimed it was a fouled plug, blaming the gas. I said I got it in April, he said that is already past it’s shelf life of 2 months. WTF? I mentioned how I cut my elderly fathers lawn with a 25 year old mower, with any gas that happens to be laying around, often for a year or so, and that it’s whole life is probably on the second plug. He then deferred blame to how engines were tuned differently or setup differently or whatever.
I call BS. And now that I think of it, I should have asked to see the fouled plug.
So frustrated, and I wonder why I just don’t use a service.
Well, that's a completely different scenario.
He is correct about the gas, it will start breaking down in about a week.
The big thing he probably didn't tell you about the mower is, it's probably got that California emissions BS in it. Most equipment today does, even if it's sold elsewhere.
I own 4 commercial mowers, two push mowers and 4 string trimmers. I have more problems with the trimmers more than anything, and it's directly related to the California emissions BS.
moper
Well-Known Member
I have a 10yr old cheap Craftsman weed whacker, a 15yr old Husqvarna chain saw, & a 25yr old Agway riding tractor (pulls my manure trailer), and a hodgepodge push mower that's soemwhere around 15yrs old. I have trouble with the 10% ethanol that comes from the ground in all of them but the chainsaw. I only fill my 5gal jug 1/2 way so it doesn't spoil. Even in a plastic can in my shed it will get condensation and absorb it. With one cylinder they are more affected by the fuel turning. I have a petcock to shut off the rider fuel - it goes past the needle & seat and floods the crankcase (carb's been rebuilt and updated with "fuel compatible" needle).
Yeah, I only really notice the problem on the trimmers, everything else seems OK. But I can't just modify the trimmers because when I need them serviced they won't work on them for fear of being fined. It's a pain in the caboose.
You would think after dropping nearly 1200 bucks on trimmers that you could get more than a season out of them without a problem.
Thanks Kalifournia!
You would think after dropping nearly 1200 bucks on trimmers that you could get more than a season out of them without a problem.
Thanks Kalifournia!
RustyRatRod
Caput villa stultus
I'm not sayin the ethanol ain't to blame for some things.....BUT here's my experience with my small engines. I have a Stihl chainsaw that's 14 years old. Never once have I ever drained gas out of it from one season to another. It busts off every damn time I want to use it and gas has sat in it for over two years at the longest. To date, I have never removed the carburetor or even sprayed the outside clean. Second in line is a Stihl weedeater. It's about 10 years old. Same thing. Next up is my Stihl blower. About 6 years old. Same thing. I know I should maintain them better, but I don't. But they all run like all hell every time I need them too. Now, I cannot say that for other brands. For some reason, non Stihl brands seem to be affected more. I don't know why.
Most of these California emission standards were adopted in 2007. Anything older than that does last and run better.
I notice a huge difference between my 15 year old chainsaw and my 6 year old trimmers.
I notice a huge difference between my 15 year old chainsaw and my 6 year old trimmers.
cudaracer
Well-Known Member
OK, so I am about to order the insulator spacer.
Two choices, open center like the link below, or split center.
Which do I want for a basic Eddie performer POS carb?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9265
Two choices, open center like the link below, or split center.
Which do I want for a basic Eddie performer POS carb?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-9265
RustyRatRod
Caput villa stultus
The gas fairy is stealin it.
cudaracer
Well-Known Member
Anybody?
If you are running a dual plane intake, you would want one with the divider in the center like this one:
View attachment Carb Gask Holley 108-18 lg.jpg
Holley 108-18
5/16" Thick
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/gaskets/parts/108-18
View attachment Carb Gask Holley 108-18 lg.jpg
Holley 108-18
5/16" Thick
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetor_components/gaskets/parts/108-18
cudaracer
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
I will order tomorrow and probably have installed by weekend to report back.
Fingers crossed.
Oh, and I also have a clear plastic fuel filter just before carter pump. Is that bad too?
Should I move it? And why is it bad, btw.
I will order tomorrow and probably have installed by weekend to report back.
Fingers crossed.
Oh, and I also have a clear plastic fuel filter just before carter pump. Is that bad too?
Should I move it? And why is it bad, btw.
Treblig
Well-Known Member
Hope u find the answer to your problem because my problem is the same. 318 '69 Cuda Edelbrock carb, Eddy intake, fuel filter in front of carb.
Treblig
Treblig
About the same year they went unleaded only they changed the fuel delivery. The out port on the mechanical pump was repositioned. The first piece of metal fuel line got a small drop before turning up to about level with the top of the pump. A metal filter was placed right there below and behind the alternator. Final metal line from there all the way to the carb.
My 67 273 had the same fuel gone / hard start issues that everyone else has along with fuel level in that horizontal see through plastic filter cycling full empty full empty during hot operation. So when I decided to move the dual plane intake from the 73 model 318 to this 273 I moved everything 73 under the breather including that fuel line ( new mech' pump from RockAuto, thick spacer under the 2 brl. from local part store ). All the problems went away. In fact, the 273 starts and runs better than it ever did. I don't remember the 73 Valiant ( donor ) being any better.
My theory, the radiator fan is helping to cool fuel at metal filter and lines.
My 67 273 had the same fuel gone / hard start issues that everyone else has along with fuel level in that horizontal see through plastic filter cycling full empty full empty during hot operation. So when I decided to move the dual plane intake from the 73 model 318 to this 273 I moved everything 73 under the breather including that fuel line ( new mech' pump from RockAuto, thick spacer under the 2 brl. from local part store ). All the problems went away. In fact, the 273 starts and runs better than it ever did. I don't remember the 73 Valiant ( donor ) being any better.
My theory, the radiator fan is helping to cool fuel at metal filter and lines.
moparlover
Well-Known Member
if you deadhead the pumps they overheat and fail
if you use a bypass regulator with return line it keeps the pump cool
if you just use a single line with regulator at the end before the carb, most pumps will overheat
Yep , electric pumps mounted in the tanks of modern vehicles need to be submersed. They fail more often when the owners don't keep plenty of fuel in there.
If it is the stock style mechanical fuel pump, I would not have a filter before the pump. The line is gravity fed, and the fuel pump is a restriction as the pump is trying to suck in the fuel. It's better to put the filter after the pump where you have pressure to overcome the restriction. The pressure side can "push through" the restriction of the fuel pump easier than the suction side. It can hurt your top end performance (starvation).
Yup! The divided one for a dual plane, the open for a single plane.
I have a Carter on top of my 360's RPM and use that divided thick gasket. The thin paper ones do no justice. Allow heat to get to the carb and boil away the fuel. Often I would hear the fuel boil after I shut the car off. The fuel would boil away quickly. Carter/Edelbrock or Holley, they would be dry in minutes.
For certain, these are the only gaskets I want to use, ever.
The rest of the fuel path can depend on the engines power level. Stock and close to stock, I have not had an issue with the fuel lines in there OE location. Once there is an issue, mostly with a hot street engine, lines get moved away from the engine. Up the inner fender or routed to the fire wall and to the carb from the rear, up high and away from heat sources as best as possible.
Treblig
Well-Known Member
It would have been nice if the Holley instructions mentioned that a return line is highly recommended (for pump longevity). In order to run a return line I'll have to take my son's car out of commission and figure out where to return the fuel. Thinking about it now....would it be as easy as returning the fuel to just behind the pump??? that would be much easier than pulling the tank, etc, etc.
Treblig
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