318 threads

[Dartswinger70]

I don’t understand the 318 abuse really .
The block is almost identical to a 340,,,I know,,,,there are several differences,,but still very close . They can easily be upgraded for more strength and durability .
The bores are only .130 “ smaller,,after you bore it some,,,that margin is closer .
The cranks are almost identical,,,mostly different machining and balancing .
The rods are very close,,,,same floating pins,,can easily be changed if necessary .

When you clean and bore the block,,,,go ahead and upgrade pistons to 10.5 compression .
You can upgrade rods or keep same,,,,no difference in power produced .
You will need more cam,,but,,,which engine doesn’t ?
You will need to upgrade heads,,,,easily accomplished .
Aluminum,,,or a nice set of J heads,,,,,or,,,,maybe a really nice set of X heads .
You can use factory rockers or aluminum,,,or,,maybe a really nice set of factory iron rockers on banana groove shafts ,,and a solid lift cam ?

Then headers ,,or a nice set of factory 340 high performance manifolds .

If I don’t change my mind,,that’s the direction I’m going .

I have a 68 318 block and steel crank,,,excellent condition.
Aftermarket rods,,,domed pistons,,,solid cam .
68 X heads and adjustable rockers,,,and 68 manifolds .
I like mostly the machine work now ,,,,I finally found my X’s the other day .

I might still go 340 block yet,,,,but I’m not rushing,,,,and I still think the 318 is a fine engine .

We need to pull together as Mopar guys and help each other more than we do .
Myself included .

Tommy

Not abuse or even hate I would just start with something else theres too much to overcome with a 318
you need heads and a cam and conpression why start with all those hurdles? I
commented on 13.5 being stock Fox body ET why? to prove you can get a factory engine that does 13.5 etc. turn key and go

 

[Cranky]

Not abuse or even hate I would just start with something else theres too much to overcome with a 318
you need heads and a cam and conpression why start with all those hurdles? I
commented on 13.5 being stock Fox body ET why? to prove you can get a factory engine that does 13.5 etc. turn key and go

I guess you also missed the part in the same 318 post where I mentioned a 265 in a 56 shoe box was pushing it 11.50?? Yeah, you made your point be known over and over again. Give it a break man. Why someone does something is their business but when you keep on trying to 'make them see' your way.....then your business alerts us. That's why you got shut out of that other 318 thread. You kept on and on and on.....

 

[Dartswinger70]

It's 2 different points of view but no one is a hater or troll..some here just wouldt start out different

 

[Cranky]

It's 2 different points of view but no one is a hater or troll..some here just wouldt start out different

Like I said, you posted your view several times and then some.....and come off like you 'do not like 318's' several more times.

 

[jeff alder]

How about a little 273 with 318 heads? LOL

 

[273]

Every engine basically need cam, cr, headers, intake etc.. so basically the same for any build.

Yes 318 needs heads or port the stock ones, but so could the 360 depends what your starting with, not like a set of 360 heads are big dollar items. There so many variables here but yes if you get a 360 long block or a 318 long block for same price with the 318 you might have to spend a little extra on heads. So that and piston price other than that everything else is pretty much the same.

 

[Cranky]

Every engine basically need cam, cr, headers, intake etc.. so basically the same for any build.

Yes 318 needs heads or port the stock ones, but so could the 360 depends what your starting with, not like a set of 360 heads are big dollar items. There so many variables here but yes if you get a 360 long block or a 318 long block for same price with the 318 you might have to spend a little extra on heads. So that and piston price other than that everything else is pretty much the same.

The teen that I 'played' with was a stock short block with 360 heads. I think I did the math right and those heads put the 72 model teen into the high 7's compression range. Been lots of years and I'm old now lol

 

[toolmanmike]

you're an internet troll.

That. My guess he's late teens, and reads a lot of Hot Rod Magazine articles. He acts like an expert when he's bashing but asks some pretty elementary questions on other threads. It's funny how many posts he deletes but we can (and do) read them all. And they are usually quite juvenile.

 

[273]

The teen that I 'played' with was a stock short block with 360 heads. I think I did the math right and those heads put the 72 model teen into the high 7's compression range. Been lots of years and I'm old now lol

Most of us have probably done the 360 top on a stock 318 bottom (very low cr) with a 340 cam, not saying it's the best way (no milling) especially now I have a better understanding. But worked great and one was a truck and still function great as a truck and was faster than stock.

But cid, velocity, cr police say it ain't so

 

[Killer6]

I don't hate anything.

Particularly 'teener-leaner threads, which presents You with the opportunity to stop talking & drop a nice little pile of poo there........, and on behalf of all 318's that haven't been melted down yet,.....THANK YOU for starting the 1,350,273,170th 'teener thread!!!

 

[jeff alder]

The teen that I 'played' with was a stock short block with 360 heads. I think I did the math right and those heads put the 72 model teen into the high 7's compression range. Been lots of years and I'm old now lol

OLD AND CRANKY! The beauty of making a 273, 318 or even a slant produce horsepower is the age-old adage of feeding the underdog. I enjoy beating up on my local Chevy guys a lot more with my 273 than I would a 360. Either way is fun but the disbelief on their faces is far greater when your air cleaner reads 273 or 318.

 

[YY1]

The 340 and the chevy 327 share a similar mystique.
(As does the ford 351c)

I DO see/hear people bash the 350 vs the 327, when clearly the 350 has more performance potential.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I do delete posts..and you know why? it's walking on eggshells here on what comments I may have left that you all get butthurt over... as far as simple comments well I consider the audience...I ty and keep the comprehension on an even keel...

hay since this is the 10 millionth 318 thread where is the build recipe for a hot 318? seems to me it should be a sticky thread...

 

[junkyardhero]

Not abuse or even hate I would just start with something else theres too much to overcome with a 318
you need heads and a cam and conpression why start with all those hurdles? I
commented on 13.5 being stock Fox body ET why? to prove you can get a factory engine that does 13.5 etc. turn key and go

BFD, so do modern minivans.

what is there to overcome? yeah, if you wanna make big dumb power you're gonna need some upgrades and $$ in machine work but guess what chachi? that's the same for everything.

guess what else needs a cam and compression? 70's turd 360's that came in practically all the cars and trucks.

your arguments are bad and you should feel bad about making them.

but i do love how you get all frothing at the mouth over 318's. i'm guessing either you tried to hot rod one and not knowing your *** from a hole in the ground just slammed the biggest cam and carb on it with a stock converter and 2.76's and found out that's not how it works, so conversely you now blame ALL 318's for your gross incompetence. sad, really.

or you spent a million bucks on a 340 and got your **** rocked by some dude with a dialed in 318 and now you can't get the taste out of your mouth.

 

[273]

OLD AND CRANKY! The beauty of making a 273, 318 or even a slant produce horsepower is the age-old adage of feeding the underdog. I enjoy beating up on my local Chevy guys a lot more with my 273 than I would a 360. Either way is fun but the disbelief on their faces is far greater when your air cleaner reads 273 or 318.

A lot of people like to do it a little differently and then you got the tried and true people (360/408)(Majority).

And the problem is tried and true people can't understand why you would want to do it any other way, here's a proven successful way, why bother? I don't know but seems to really mess with them, short circuits their brain's, why someone wants to build something else.

 

[Owen 340+6]

I have a few 340's I have 1 dumb 360 and I have probably a dozen 318s. When I go to build something I grab a 318. Cheap. Can still buy them for 50-100 bucks. I beat the tar out of them. They lay all the rubber I want to lay they do everything I ask of them and I've never not one single time asked myself why I stuck money into one of my 318s... Sounds like ya got a personal problem amigo. At the end of the day the only difference between a 318 and a 340 is .090 of an inch and a little better flow in a stock junk cast iron cylinder head. Facts are facts and opinions are like assholes. Everyone's got one.

 

[jeff alder]

A lot of people like to do it a little differently and then you got the tried and true people (360/408)(Majority).

And the problem is tried and true people can't understand why you would want to do it any other way, here's a proven successful way, why bother? I don't know but seems to really mess with them, short circuits their brain's, why someone wants to build something else.

Yep...I totally get the larger displacement to start with and the cost savings there are to make horsepower. It's not all about that. If it were we would all have a 426 HEMI and the site would be boring.

 

[273]

BFD, so do modern minivans.

what is there to overcome? yeah, if you wanna make big dumb power you're gonna need some upgrades and $$ in machine work but guess what chachi? that's the same for everything.

guess what else needs a cam and compression? 70's turd 360's that came in practically all the cars and trucks.

your arguments are bad and you should feel bad about making them.

100%

but i do love how you get all frothing at the mouth over 318's.

It's just entertaining at this poin4

i'm guessing either you tried to hot rod one and not knowing your *** from a hole in the ground just slammed the biggest cam and carb on it with a stock converter and 2.76's and found out that's not how it works, so conversely you now blame ALL 318's for your gross incompetence. sad, really.

My guess this Is a big reason, in general for all of this, a lot of poorly thrown together 318 with poorly matched parts and gears and stall etcc. Then they build a decent 360 and it's night and day so obviously it's 100% cause it's a 360 got nothing to do with being properly built

or you spent a million bucks on a 340 and got your **** rocked by some dude with a dialed in 318 and now you can't get the taste out of your mouth.

 

[XFX]

Ok Mr Dart Swinger 70. This might help you and others to understand why people do things that others do not. The whole thing of "thats all they have" or "that is all they could afford" or all the other speculative reasons do not apply to many and possibly not most.

Maybe I can get you to walk a mile in another's shoes and maybe gain some understanding as to why someone might do this as you typed.

As far as 318s,I cant understand why someone who doesnt want to lay out $$$ for a good starting point in a 340/ 360 would spend the $$$ that it takes modding a 318 then gloat like its something special.

As hard as it might be for some to understand as gear head/street racer part time track racer I have raced and modded things since very young. First mod I ever was a ether assist into the intake of a honda 50 when I was 9 so I could spank the neighbor kid and his honda trail 70 and it worked until it didnt. So anything from a 273 to a big inch (450) small block is fair game.

Yep, here is my budget 318 street stroker. A low rpm high tq setup for a highway geared cruiser that will not be limited to stretching its legs buy a low tq short stroke dud small block. Like a 2.45 geared cruiser that even makes a stock 360 very sub par.

Parts bought pre covid so it is not a costly build.

Please be patient as I type and post more to further my reasoning. Im going to post a few of my other mopar interests not for the purpose of the old "look at me" thing as im rather a private type but maybe this might help some of the anti 318 guys understand things from a different view.

Going back to your 318 then gloat like its something special

wont come out of bold... but any build that exceeds its original intent or power output is special in several ways.

 

[jeff alder]

Ok Mr Dart Swinger 70. This might help you and others to understand why people do things that others do not. The whole thing of "thats all they have" or "that is all they could afford" or all the other speculative reasons do not apply to many and possibly not most.

Maybe I can get you to walk a mile in another's shoes and maybe gain some understanding as to why someone might do this as you typed.

As far as 318s,I cant understand why someone who doesnt want to lay out $$$ for a good starting point in a 340/ 360 would spend the $$$ that it takes modding a 318 then gloat like its something special.

As hard as it might be for some to understand as gear head/street racer part time track racer I have raced and modded things since very young. First mod I ever was a ether assist into the intake of a honda 50 when I was 9 so I could spank the neighbor kid and his honda trail 70 and it worked until it didnt. So anything from a 273 to a big inch (450) small block is fair game.

Yep, here is my budget 318 street stroker. A low rpm high tq setup for a highway geared cruiser that will not be limited to stretching its legs buy a low tq short stroke dud small block. Like a 2.45 geared cruiser that even makes a stock 360 very sub par.

Parts bought pre covid so it is not a costly build.

Please be patient as I type and post more to further my reasoning. Im going to post a few of my other mopar interests not for the purpose of the old "look at me" thing as im rather a private type but maybe this might help some of the anti 318 guys understand things from a different view.

Going back to your 318 then gloat like its something special

wont come out of bold... but any build that exceeds its original intent or power output is special in several ways.

View attachment 1716425572

View attachment 1716425573

View attachment 1716425574

Yes, that's nice and clean and very shiny! They always look great with that fresh machining. Looks like a fun build.

 

[XFX]

I posted in the other thread that some of it comes down to the challenge and fun of getting the most out of a certain combo. I also posted that strokers being as fun as they are do not present huge challenges to some due to the good quality of parts we have to pick from.

Actually I do not own but a few oem blocks but rather the actual performance based blocks.

Not everything has to be a max effort or max $$$$$ build but yes they are fun.

So I could easily cast shade on any stock block build weather 340 or 360 based but id ask why? Why take away from someones fun, possibly someones dream that they saved and scrimped for just because I do not see they way they do?

Im far from well off and I give up a lot to enjoy the hobby. But imo to belittle anyone past a general comment of one does not agree heads to the obsessive side of things.

 

[Dartswinger70]

So I googled "How to make a 318 into a badass race engine" and this is what AI said...:

Making a Badass Mopar 318 Race Engine:
Transforming a Mopar 318 into a high-performance race engine involves a combination of carefully selected components and meticulous engine building techniques. Here's a breakdown of how to achieve this, based on the provided search results:
1. Boosting Horsepower and Torque:

• Piston Selection: Opt for high-quality flat-top pistons, such as Keith Black KB 167 hypereutectic pistons, to achieve a zero deck height. This enhances compression ratio and optimizes quench clearance for improved combustion efficiency. Use high-quality moly rings for better sealing and desirable friction characteristics.
• Cylinder Head Modifications:
  • Matching Components: Ensure all components (heads, intake, exhaust) complement each other for optimal performance. A mismatch can hinder overall power output.
  • Closed-Chamber Quench Heads: Consider closed-chamber quench heads paired with the zero-deck setup.
  • Porting and Machining: Porting the intake runners and combustion chambers to improve airflow can lead to significant horsepower gains. Consider getting the head-to-block surface decked for a true surface, but be mindful of potential valve-to-piston clearance issues.
  • Cylinder Head Options: Edelbrock offers performance heads like the Performer RPM or Victor Series, specifically designed for small-block Chrysler engines, including the 318.
• Camshaft Selection: Choose a performance-oriented camshaft that aligns with your desired powerband and racing goals. Hydraulic roller cams offer advantages like higher lift and increased durability compared to flat tappet cams.
• Intake Manifold: Improve the induction system with a performance intake manifold and a properly sized carburetor, such as a Holley 750. Consider porting the intake manifold to enhance airflow and fuel atomization.
• Exhaust System: Install a good set of street headers and a suitable exhaust system to reduce restrictions and improve exhaust flow.
• Ignition System: Upgrade the ignition system with a performance electronic ignition conversion kit, such as the Mopar Performance Orange Box, and a high-energy coil.
• Nitrous Oxide System: For a quick power boost, consider adding a nitrous kit, keeping in mind specific ring end gap requirements for nitrous use.
• Block Modifications:
  • Bore Radiusing: Radiusing the edges at the bottom of the bores can improve airflow at high RPM.
  • Main Crank Seal: Install the main crank seal with the high side facing forward.
  • Chamfer Oil Holes: Chamfer the oil holes in the crankshaft to prevent bearing galling at higher RPM.
  • Strengthened Rods: Consider using heavier-duty rods for enhanced durability at higher horsepower levels.

2. Precision Engine Building:

• Machine Work: Ensure the engine block is properly machined for optimal performance.
• Torque Specifications: Adhere to the correct torque specifications for all fasteners during assembly.
• Bearing Installation: Install main bearings with the grooves facing the correct direction.

3. Important Considerations:

• Octane Requirements: Be mindful of the compression ratio when selecting pistons and cylinder heads to ensure the engine can run on readily available pump gas.
• Streetability: Carefully choose a camshaft that provides the desired performance while maintaining acceptable street manners.
• Budget: Building a race engine can be costly, so prioritize modifications based on your budget and performance goals.
• Professional Assistance: Consult with experienced engine builders or racing professionals for guidance on selecting and installing parts, especially for specialized modifications.

By implementing these modifications and focusing on meticulous engine building practices, you can transform a Mopar 318 into a badass race engine capable of delivering impressive power and performance.

• 318 Engine Build - A Parts Book 400HP 318 - Hot Rod
  Mar 28, 2007 — Why build a 318? Some may argue there is never a reason to build the Mopar 318. When the time comes to rebuild a small-block, the 318 should always be cast asid...
  
  
  
  HOT ROD Network
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 318 Street Recipes: New Mopar Power Meals Feed Hungry ...
  Dec 1, 2023 — The rather disappointing eight horsepower gain realized with the 360 head swap shows the necessity of assembling a coordinated package in which all components c...
  
  
  
  HOT ROD Network
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 318 Small-Block Budget Build, Part 3 - Mopar Muscle Magazine
  Jan 1, 2009 — It's standard practice-or at least it should be-to give the head-to-block surface a good surface cut, just to make sure you're dealing with a true surface. ... ...
  
  
  
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[XFX]

This other street nitrous stroker is as easy as it gets. Simple JE dished, a bunch of calico coatings. A billet cam core with solid lifter lobes on schubeck lifters with a small diameter small roller cam spring. A fun bullet proof 7500 rpm day in day out toy.

I do not own a 8 3/4 anything but I do have three S60-s, two in cars and one spare or one just in case. One basic, two with discs and the HD rear cover brace weather they work or not.

Now I do have two 8.25s and the one with the 2.45 highway gear got the cheap lunch box locker.

Ive not even touched on the cylinder head or nitrous side of things I enjoy.

But my point is my friend is that all this negative energy of folks dogging anyone or anything 318 related clearly do not have all the facts of why or what motivates others to do what they do.

I hate to say it would be nice if more in the mopar world could get along as a whole because god knows we have a hole world of bullshit going on around us in the real world.

So to sum things up, dog my posts here is you wish and I will also apologize for my snappy reply in the other thread whether it was warranted or not.

So Mr Dartswinger70 ive let you and a few have a small look into my mopar world and my views so feel free to post some pics of your world and what you have going or if you even have a link.

Lastly I wall say, yes some of my pics are the better pics I take. Im a slob, my shop is a mess and im just a normal mopar guy. Pics of spraying a greasy set of heads and an oil pan with old diesel fuel outside on an old gas grill is not super exciting or appealing to many.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I then asked "why its not worth it making a 318 into a bad *** race engine":

While it's possible to build a Mopar 318 engine for racing, it's generally considered not "worth it" due to several factors compared to starting with a different engine like a 340 or 360.
Here's why:

• Limited Performance Potential: The 318 was originally designed as a reliable, economical engine, not for high-performance applications. It has features like smaller bore and stroke, and smaller ports in the cylinder heads, limiting its potential for maximizing horsepower and torque compared to its siblings.
• Cost vs. Performance: To make a 318 perform at a level comparable to a well-built 340 or 360, significant modifications are required, including specialized pistons, head work, and potentially a crankshaft swap (such as a stroked crank). The cost of these modifications can quickly add up, making it more cost-effective to start with a stronger base engine like a 360.
• Availability of Aftermarket Parts: Due to its focus on utility rather than performance, the aftermarket industry didn't develop as many high-performance parts specifically for the 318 compared to engines like the 340 or 360.
• Better Alternatives Exist: For those seeking serious performance, the Mopar 340 (with its forged crank and larger valves) or even the larger displacement 440 big block offer a stronger foundation and better starting point for building a race engine. The LS platform, being widely available and affordable, is also a popular choice for high-horsepower builds.
• Oil System Limitations: The 318's oiling system, designed for low-to-mid RPM operation, may not provide adequate lubrication to certain parts under the stresses of high-RPM racing, a problem not shared by the 340 or 360.

However, if your goal is not absolute top-tier racing performance, but rather a fun and unique build, a 318 can still be a viable option. Some enthusiasts enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of making a less conventional engine perform well. With a turbocharger, for example, a 318 can safely produce impressive horsepower figures.
In summary, while you can make a 318 into a "badass" race engine, the effort, cost, and ultimately the performance potential make it a less practical choice compared to building a 340 or 360, especially for high-level racing.

 

[XFX]

AI is a joke, its taken all the bad info people have muddied the web with since the late 80-s.

Most of the good builders and secrets have never hit the web. AI to me is nothing more then a collection of hype, bs and a little bit of good info from a few smart guys.

All these mag builds need to be taken lightly because we know all too often what really motivates these mags and what they build and what they print.