360 head choices. What's everyone running?

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. MOPAROFFICIAL

    MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Smart.
    OP has so many opinions that range from 'on the money' to 'vicarious spending', 'in case it rains' 'room to grow'...that's my favorite line of all time... and you know if that was true..we would have all bought family trucksters when we were 20's & single.
    .500 cam, I made about 400, 392hp with a set of stock x heads and a .528 solid that ends up more like .490 something after push rod angularity and the factory's slightly inaccurate rocker ratios...so I dont see even remote necessity for an aluminum head 20cc bigger port volume than stock and that needs more $ go through.

    1.94/1.60 valve 360 heads, blended and milled to 65cc , about .025- .030 milled off and some comp 901 springs.
    Bolt on and go, no $tripped thread$, no aftermarket bolt$.
    Should be a slam dunk, 1 page ..but here we are, talking about 1600 heads on page 2 .lol
    If the 308/j x etc were ported right, about stage 2, the next head to move to would be the cnc shocker 185, or and then trick flows.
    Op buying promaxx is like a 75 yr old man buying air jordans ...jmo
     
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    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 So close, yet so far away FABO Gold Member

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      Ain’t nothing wrong with ported iron except the bill due at the end of the day. It’ll be worse if they don’t flow better than the ported head offerings.
       
    • texas360

      texas360 Well-Known Member

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      only reason i would consider aluminum is they are lighter, cool better and cost about same a having a set of cast heads redone because most all i have found are a few hundred for the heads then the machine shops want $500-$700 to go through them, do guides and valve job, so why waste money on fixing a cast when you can spend the money on aluminum if i ever decide to go with a bigger cam, better pistons, maybe even a stroker kit at some point ill already have decent starting heads, i dont really want to want to run magnum heads.. down here in texas mopar small block heads m shit mopars in my area are scarce
       
    • j par

      j par Well-hung Member

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      Sounds like you got it figured out...
       
    • MOPAROFFICIAL

      MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Show me a pair of aluminum heads that cost the same as the iron you priced.

      BARE SM $365 ea.=730.00+tax of, what..56 bucks ? $786 and you'd still have no parts and the valve job would need looked at for concentricity . $350-$380 for cheap valves, retainers springs,locks,spring cups and seals, bolts?
      1100-1200 +shop looking them over and setting them up ,unless you have a spring mic, can guage the guides, basically have a little head shop ,experience to know what you're reading and looking at/for and all the tools of course. The deal, yes ..I know, 1100 w/intake...then have them looked at..more money.

      Go for it!
       
      Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
    • texas360

      texas360 Well-Known Member

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      There is a guy on fbbo with SM heads for a $1000 that have already been gone through and ready. Been talking to him
       
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      • MOPAROFFICIAL

        MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Let's be clear, still more money.
        Your 1st statement was inaccurate.
        Good luck, have fun. Audios
         
      • PRH

        PRH Well-Known Member

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        • MOPAROFFICIAL

          MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        • MOPAROFFICIAL

          MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I agree, generally speaking. Full on deal, takes some time. I think the sm is a good deal for a builder , not joe schmoe.
          Someone that knows what to do and has the tools. Otherwise they are a lighter head with a better exhaust port.
          As for what I was referring to with some 'blending' is not much work to get 1.94 working 250cfm and the rest of the numbers are better than a speed disaster head, however. Ootb sm 171cc low lift is marginal. The .400 and up okay.
          It's not as clear and simple as people think.
          So it really depends on what exactly we are talking about, what level.
           
        • PRH

          PRH Well-Known Member

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          Maybe you should re-read post #8.
          The OP has already looked into having stock heads done locally.
          It’s going to cost about $1000...... plus any porting.

          Shipping iron heads out and back to a non-local shop will add another $200+.
           
        • texas360

          texas360 Well-Known Member

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          I just want to drive my car with the 360. I just trying to find the best affordable option.
           
        • MOPAROFFICIAL

          MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I guess you didn't read my post...? a few up from this one where I recognize and reiterate his price quotes locally where he lives. I'm reading the same thing you are
          He can do what he wants. Im not telling him what to do. I am saying that a fact is fact and exaggerated bs is just that.
          Some people need talking themselves into things.. it's weird to read/watch.
           
          Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
        • j par

          j par Well-hung Member

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          Again if you wait till Black Friday which is about four months away you can buy them for $700 just like the person who's trying to sell them to you for a thousand. If you don't wait you can at least buy the ones for $1,172 and get a $226 intake manifold... @318willrun has a video on this forum and you could ask him to link you to it going through the Speedmaster heads. How to check them and how to lubricate them at home... You'll need no more than a harbor freight tool to take the springs off which shouldn't cost you more than $13... I had mine professionally checked for $95...
           
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          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            And here's another tip... If you decide not to go for the Speedmaster promo and the extra manifold if you buy them through Summit you'll have great customer service and great recourse as they will refund your money if you send them back... Speedmaster will refund your money but the last I heard with a lot of yelling screaming kicking threatening you'll get your money back in about 3 months...
             
          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            You're going to get a mix of answers from machine shops.. the first shop I called said Speedmaster heads are junk and it will need new valve guides new seats and all this new stuff and it will be at least $800... the next shop I called was a head shop specifically and they laughed and said they were new and that they wish they could sell brand new heads and tell people that need to be checked out...
            Myself and 318willrun have more than less put them on without any machine work. His are on a factory 360 and mine are on a custom 410 Stroker both with great results so far....
             
          • B3422w5

            B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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            yep... and as i pointed out earlier in this thread, a local machinist who is well respected and has done work for myself and Mopar buddies I hang around just took apart speedmasters and checked them out. 100% clean bill of health and ready to run.
            This same guy set up my current eddie heads, new springs, valve job, etc. Working perfectly. If he says something is Fine... its fine
             
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            • AJ/FormS

              AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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              power-318.gif
              Here is a 5.2 Magnum; it could be similar to yours at least from the torque peak to the power peak. For arguments sake, lets just say it is and use this graph, as is.
              Notice the at least 15 hp difference from 2600 to 2800. You can't touch that with a simple cam change and especially not with a whiplash.
              Currently when you floor it with 3.55s and that 2600TC, you are unleashing say 288 ftlbs crank; I get
              288 x2.45 x3.55 =2500 ftlbs into the rear axles, at zero mph. This should bust the tires loose no problem. If it doesn't, it's because of a lack of cylinder pressure, or unusual tires.
              Lets look at the numbers with a 2800 and 3.91s. I get
              293 x2.45 x3.91=2810 That is 310 more ftlbs, or 12.4%. 10.1% is from the 3.91s alone.
              310 ftlbs at 2800rpm represents 165 rear axle hp.
              You cannot touch this with the Whiplash; with no other changes, probably not with any cam.

              If you install that Whiplash; In all likelyhood, you are gonna loose a few ftlbs at 2600. You'll get it back by say 3300, and probably more besides, but if your tires are locked to the road, you are gonna have to drive thru the soft zone.
              Lets say the soft is from, stall to 3000, and loosing 12# at 2600 to 8#at 3000, to zero at 3300. I mean I'm just guessing.
              Lets translate that to hp; 12@2600 is 6hp, 8@3000 is 5hp, 4@3150 is 2.4 Lets see where this occurs in terms of roadspeed.
              With 3.55s, 2800rpm is about;
              18mph in first, 34 in second, 54 in direct . That's about where you are gonna feel the hole plus and minus 200rpm.
              Look at 2800 on the graph; 5 hp at 2800 is 5/155=3.2% and 6/140 is 4.3%. To get an understanding of that; a change from 3.55s to 3.23s is 9.1%.. In other words, when you install that Whiplash, with a 2600TC,IMO, I estimate it's gonna feel like you lost 3.2 to 4.3% gearage, or from 3.55s to ~3.36s, in the soft zone.

              Here's the point;

              you gotta decide where you need/want the power most,
              then gear the car to try and put it there,
              then build the engine to put the power where you called for it.
              If you build the engine first,to some arbitrary hp number, then you are stuck trying to adapt it to your needs.

              For a streeter; IMO, Having power at 5500 is rarely the solution.
              And for a streeter, you will very rarely be able to go thru the powerpeak twice,in the Zero to 60 speed contest. And the first time, with street tires and suspension, she'll be spinning.
              To hit 60@5200 with an 80inch roll-out (25.5" tires) requires 4.10s for 60=4710@zero slip to 5180 @10%, and you will need a 268adv/223@.050 type cam. For a weekend bomber, I suppose you could run 4.10s.
              But if you put a DC-268 hydro (228@.050) in a 8/1 318LA, you end up with a bottom end that, to me, is embarrassingly soft. In an 8/1 360, it gets better, but still, I would never do it again; I just ain't that broke.

              If you have to run an 8/1 SBM, then your first soldier, against the soft would be a fast-rate,tight-lash,short period, solid-lifter cam,(forget about lift, let it be what it will be.), and a close second, would be a clutch/5-speed ....... or a high-stall.
              Or; some guys have run variable duration lifters, to very good effect, but IMO, at this power level, a new set of hi-compression pistons is a better solution. Still, you can think about it.

              Here are, in no particular order, some common targets;
              1) frying tires, not just chirping, I want major smoke.
              2) power at 30 to 35 mph, to play in traffic
              3) passing-gear power on the freeway
              4) fuel economy.
              5) stealth.
              6) drifting
              7) quiet cruising
              8) power from 30 to 40 mph, cuz I know this place.....
              9) power thru the traps
              10) everybody's favorite, I want it to sound like a "funny-car"
              11) add your target here
              Most small blocks can achieve two closely related targets sometimes three, after that, yur getting into special builds. And of course some paired targets are just really expensive,while others are impossible.

              Happy HotRodding

              Ok wait, now we're into 360s, I musta takin' a wrong turn,lol.
               
              Last edited: Aug 3, 2020
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              • fishmens67

                fishmens67 Well-Known Member

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                How much is Speedmaster paying you guy's ?
                They sell them cheap so you have the extra 600 bucks to have them prepped right.
                 
              • PRH

                PRH Well-Known Member

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                I just looked at a reputable builders site who’s located in the middle of the country.
                Valve job(includes clean/mag/assemble), new guides, ex seats, flat mill, cut for posi seals........$861, does not include any parts(not the guides or seats either).
                Looks like an easy $1000+ bill at their shop...... before porting.

                Machine shop prices vary wildly depending on where you’re located.

                In some areas of the country, having stock heads reconditioned can be pretty pricey.
                 
              • MOPAROFFICIAL

                MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Right on.
                Do let us know though if and when he does find a funky one.
                I think it was PHR who found chattered seats, see pic, so if one can get by... more will and it's just a matter of time.
                 
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                • MOPAROFFICIAL

                  MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  That's why I said its a 'builders' head.
                   
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                  • j par

                    j par Well-hung Member

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                    I don't think it's a matter of getting paid by somebody which nobody is of course and I don't have one of their t-shirts or hats either.
                    I think it has everything to do with fellow Mopar enthusiasts helping each other save A Buck and getting their best bang for the buck...
                     
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                    • MOPAROFFICIAL

                      MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      I agree. and it's not any fault if the shop is set up for high end stuff. That's just what they do.
                      There are a couple shops near me, race, I dont use them. That's not what I need. Same prices as mentioned, 700 +parts
                      And they really don't want to work on old stuff. All these years...ive never needed to spend that much to go fast and stay together. Not knocking it It's just higher end than what I and a lot of people need to get down the track...just like the 1200 roller lifters and $4,500 block...$3,000 heads and ...well, you get the picture. Ask a lot of guys here, same.
                       
                    • Wyrmrider

                      Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      whiplash cam may be the best of a bad lot of similar cams
                      but
                      way too much ex duration
                      which closes the ex late which dilutes the intake with reversion and kills the power stroke and mieage be opening early
                      comps version uses mopar lobes also, not so with others
                       
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