360 magnum budget build

[DartFred]

I'm in the process of rebuilding my 360 magnum. I had low oil pressure when hot since I got it and after 300 miles I busted a connecting rod bearing...

My plan is to get the crank turned and keep the stock pistons (the bores look like new, no ridge!) I removed the cam and one of the bearing is bad. I want a head and cam combo that would give me the best hp and mpg. Car (68 dart) will be mostly driven on the highway at 75 mph, 2000rpm (I have a viper T56 and 4.10 gears).

Should I get new EQ heads OOTB with 2.02 intake (they have good low lift numbers, better torque and efficiency at low rpm) and bump the cam up? Or stick with the stock heads and cam (the heads don't seem to be cracked between the seats). I will keep my OEM rockers and roller lifters.

For the same price I can get EQ 2.02 from Hugues or RHS 2.02 from Indy

Hughes has 2 reground cam for 200$: 214-218@0.050 .520-.544 lift@1.6
218-228@0.050 .544 lift@1.6
Comp cams:264HR-12 210-220@0.050 .512 lift@1.5

Any other suggestions?

 

[Salty Dog]

Nope, looks like you got this all sew'd up

 

[dusted72]

I would consider changing the pistons. KB107's would help your performance and boost up your compression a bit over the stock ones and they aren't very expensive either. Just order them in 4.000 and have your tolerances checked first though but that is something I am considering as well. Just a thought.

 

[dustoff440]

If you run the stock retainers on the magnum head you will probably run into intereference with the Hughes cam. I have a cam with 496/512 lift and had less than 20 thousandths clearance between the bottom of the retainer and the top of the valve stem guide. Hughes sells retainers that solve this problem and they are about 65 bucks. Also on a reground magnum cam the best centerline achievable (or so I have been told) will be about 113 which will definitely take out the "lopey cam" sound out of the equation. The stock pistons are hypereutectic which should handle your needs for street driving. The magnum head has good quench with stock pistons, that is one of the reasons that they do not need as much advance as as an LA motor. I can't vouch for kb's with a stock magnum head.

 

[Abodybomber]

Lent on a 114 lobe seperation.Crower cam,224 @.050,.500 lift.20 inchs of vac @800 idle spd.No lope whatsoever.

 

[UOP]

^^ Yup, me too. Comp part# 20-746-9

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=661&sb=2

 

[Abodybomber]

That is a nice grind.

 

[DartFred]

So how much of a cam can the magnum heads take without changing valve springs and retainers? I played a little bit with comp cams Camquest software and the best power I got with a nice flat torque curve was with their 20-604-9 cam (210-220@0.050, .512 lift on a 112 lsa)

They also have 20-624-9, same specs but with .480 lift.

Comp says those 2 cams can't use stock springs...

I don't really want to start investing in the stock heads. If I have to change springs and retainers, I might as well go straight with the EQ 2.02 magnum heads.

 

[UOP]

They also have 20-624-9, same specs but with .480 lift.

That lift is with 1.5 ratio rockers. With 1.6 ratio rockers the lift comes out to .512.


I'm not sure any aftermarket cam (worth buying anyway) will work with stock springs.

 

[JoeDust451]

So how much of a cam can the magnum heads take without changing valve springs and retainers? I played a little bit with comp cams Camquest software and the best power I got with a nice flat torque curve was with their 20-604-9 cam (210-220@0.050, .512 lift on a 112 lsa)

They also have 20-624-9, same specs but with .480 lift.

Comp says those 2 cams can't use stock springs...

I don't really want to start investing in the stock heads. If I have to change springs and retainers, I might as well go straight with the EQ 2.02 magnum heads.

You really just need a standard set of EQs or RHSs with the 1.92 valve, I bought my set of RHSs from hughes for 935.00 shipped, now they have gone up around 50.00 bucks, but they are really great heads, with the standard boss .500 lift is pushing it, so .480/.485 is fine, I did what your wanting to do & was very happy, I just used a junkyard 360 shortblock & these up-grades.

RHS heads
Re-ground factory cam i had bullet do for me.- .477/.477, .218/.218 @50 on a 112.
Crosswind RPM
Summit 1.5/8 headers
Mallory 6AL, MSD dist.
PTC 11" 2800 stall
Spooled 3.73 gears
27" MT DRs
Shifted at 5100

Ran 12.5s @ 105 consistantly, 8.0s @ 85 1/8 NA

On a 125 shot ran 7.4s @ 95 with issues, All other nitrous passes it wouldn't hook.

Check out the video in my sig. against a 69 Yenko 427 Camaro, This was a NA run.

 

[DartFred]

I would consider changing the pistons. KB107's would help your performance and boost up your compression a bit over the stock ones and they aren't very expensive either. Just order them in 4.000 and have your tolerances checked first though but that is something I am considering as well. Just a thought.

I just calculated CR with the KB107 and that would bring me up to 10.75 with a 62cc head. A bit too much for the street with pump gas. Is there any other cheap piston option that gives 0.040 quench and around 9.5CR?

If I want to change the stock truck cam, guess I'll have to change springs and retainers on the stock heads and they are definitely not cheap. Big investment for a head that might crack and with old valves...

Indy has the magnum RHS heads for sale at 975$ (their ad says 10% off all heads, but I don't know if it's already included in their price) I'll have to give them a call. 2.02 intake valves is a 100$ upgrade, probably worth it. Anybody has experience with them? Otherwise I'll go with Hugues 2.02 iron rams.

I sent a cam recommendation form to comp, we'll see what they come up with. I asked for good fuel economy at 2000rpm at 75 mph.

 

[JoeDust451]

Indy has the magnum RHS heads for sale at 975$ (their ad says 10% off all heads, but I don't know if it's already included in their price) I'll have to give them a call. 2.02 intake valves is a 100$ upgrade, probably worth it. Anybody has experience with them? Otherwise I'll go with Hugues 2.02 iron rams.

Did you look at my reply, If your wanting budget, this is budget, unless your just wanting to shell out money, I wouldn't spend $$$ on the factory heads, mine were crank'd, so i threw them out... Forget the larger valves, you don't really need them, the heads come with better springs. Get the factory cam re-ground from Bullet, its 150.00 bucks, Why change pistons, did you see what i was running with the factory dished, LXguy ran 11.70 with his junkyard block, PM him, He is running the EQs & an aftermarket cam, steeper gear & higher stall then i had.

I'm sure the 10% is off that 975.00 price, call them & find out.

 

[rumblefish360]

I just calculated CR with the KB107 and that would bring me up to 10.75 with a 62cc head. A bit too much for the street with pump gas. Is there any other cheap piston option that gives 0.040 quench and around 9.5CR?

Yea, the stock piston with a minor head milling.

If I want to change the stock truck cam, guess I'll have to change springs and retainers on the stock heads and they are definitely not cheap. Big investment for a head that might crack and with old valves...

If you think a cam change and valve springs are pricey, you need a better job. This is entry level prices.

Indy has the magnum RHS heads for sale at 975$ (their ad says 10% off all heads, but I don't know if it's already included in their price) I'll have to give them a call. 2.02 intake valves is a 100$ upgrade, probably worth it. Anybody has experience with them? Otherwise I'll go with Hugues 2.02 iron rams.

Contact member OU812. He is a MoPar machinist that does nice work on INDY heads at a good price. Unlike going to INDY themselves and getting screwed by crap work and no money back with a **** customer service which blames you for everything wrong with there head and sticks it to you without care.

But then again, your bitchin about the price of a cam change, this ought to quell every dream you have about cars.

I sent a cam recommendation form to comp, we'll see what they come up with. I asked for good fuel economy at 2000rpm at 75 mph.

That'll be a pretty mello cam.

 

[Abodybomber]

Spend money on a good machinist,I agree.Just watched Rhs castings get worked over.Throat cut,bowl work fit guides.(Flow 270@.550 lift.About 1600,including castings.

 

[DartFred]

But then again, your bitchin about the price of a cam change, this ought to quell every dream you have about cars. [/QUOTE]

I'm not bitchin about the price of a cam change, I'm just saying it's not worth putting money on my stock heads when I can get brand new ones for 600$ more than putting new springs and retainers... I just want advices on what works and what doesnt.

 

[JoeDust451]

I gave you a reply on the RHSs & how well they perform & right after that you ask'd if anyone had any esperiance with them, Sounds to me like your not paying any mind to whats being said about what your asking :violent1:, I like giving advice on my exsperiances, but its aggravating when it falls on deaf ears.

What do you want us to tell you, If you don't want to put $$ in the stock heads then don't, trash them, Either the EQs or RHSs are what you want for a "BUDGET" build as you stated, You do not need any fancy work done to them for now, Hughes engines goes over them & currects any "INDY" flaws & stands behind there work, so do not buy from "INDY", Hughes engines has about the best price for a standard stock set with there 1110 springs along with currecting any of Indys mess-ups, others will port them, put some bling-bling & the price goes up.

If you have questions about curtain products then ask the vendors who sell them.

Good luck with whatever you deside.

 

[DartFred]

I gave you a reply on the RHSs & how well they perform & right after that you ask'd if anyone had any esperiance with them, Sounds to me like your not paying any mind to whats being said about what your asking :violent1:, I like giving advice on my exsperiances, but its aggravating when it falls on deaf ears.

What do you want us to tell you, If you don't want to put $$ in the stock heads then don't, trash them, Either the EQs or RHSs are what you want for a "BUDGET" build as you stated, You do not need any fancy work done to them for now, Hughes engines goes over them & currects any "INDY" flaws & stands behind there work, so do not buy from "INDY", Hughes engines has about the best price for a standard stock set with there 1110 springs along with currecting any of Indys mess-ups, others will port them, put some bling-bling & the price goes up.

If you have questions about curtain products then ask the vendors who sell them.

Good luck with whatever you deside.

I was just wondering how is the assembly quality of Indy vs Hughes (think I got my answer after reading all those horror stories). I want to run these heads OOTB. I have no doubt that the RHS heads are awesome heads looking at the flow numbers in stock form and your results at the track.

Is there any thin head gasket that works with the magnum block and RHS heads? A 0.026 head gasket would bring the compression up to 9.4 from 9.1 and helping the quench with stock pistons without having to mill the block. I know MP has some head gaskets listed for the LA, will these work?

 

[JoeDust451]

I was just wondering how is the assembly quality of Indy vs Hughes (think I got my answer after reading all those horror stories). I want to run these heads OOTB. I have no doubt that the RHS heads are awesome heads looking at the flow numbers in stock form and your results at the track.

Is there any thin head gasket that works with the magnum block and RHS heads? A 0.026 head gasket would bring the compression up to 9.4 from 9.1 and helping the quench with stock pistons without having to mill the block. I know MP has some head gaskets listed for the LA, will these work?

Just run the factory gasket, You'll see that the quench isn't so bad, I ran mine on pump 87, You don't need much timing either, about 30* total, This is what i had in my 360.

Engine 300.00

Factory heads were cracked, dumpster!!

RHS heads from hughes 935.00 shipped

Re-ground cam 150.00

Head gasket set 54.00

LA timing/oil pan gasket 20.00

Summit headers 105.00

Crosswind RPM airgap 169.00 shipped

360 A body oilpan used 25.00

LA timing cover 15.00

Cam snout from hughes to run a mech. pump 33.00

E-bay 650dp 125.00 shipped

MSD Dist. 210.00

Grand total of 1816.00 not includeing the engine purchase.

You can opt'd & go with the Hughes cam for 200.00 & get alittle more cam, but be careful with the lift, you may need to have them trim down the guide bosses at an added cost, I think there cams have the extended snout so you can run a mech. fuel pump, so that will save you 33.00, This engine didn't burn a drop of oil & the torque was outstanding, My goal was 7.0s on a 175 shot, but like i said it had a heck of a time hooking on a 125.

When i got the car it had a rebuilt 904 in it, All i did was install a RMVB from TA.

If you do decide on a larger cam then what i had, Then look into some thinner head gaskets.

 

[Idaho]

Just wondering how many miles were on your $300.00 engine? I'm snooping around for one so I can replicate yours. Hope you take it as a compliment.

 

[dusted72]

Don't know about his motor but it isn't too uncommon from what I hear for a Magnum to have 100k and still have cross hatches in it and no ridge.

 

[rumblefish360]

All i did was install a RMVB from TA.

What is a RMVB?

Who is TA?

 

[dusted72]

Reverse Manual Valve Body don't know the rest

 

[JoeDust451]

What is a RMVB?

Who is TA?

:violent1: "Turbo-Action"

Just wondering how many miles were on your $300.00 engine? I'm snooping around for one so I can replicate yours. Hope you take it as a compliment.

Thanks, there out there.

Don't know about his motor but it isn't too uncommon from what I hear for a Magnum to have 100k and still have cross hatches in it and no ridge.

Your exactly right, Mine still had the cross hatches & no ridge.

 

[DartFred]

Your exactly right, Mine still had the cross hatches & no ridge.

I paid 360$ for my engine (I gave the guy 1$ per cubic inch) and he installed a brand new mopar center sump oil pan. His friend sold it to him originally but he changed project. Mine also had 90-100k on it (not 100% on that one) off a 97 ram van. Bores are like new... Maybe not cross hatched but no ridge.

 

[JoeDust451]

After doing up that 360 magnum, I'm in the process of doing up a sbc 400 .030", I'm getting the same advice from them, junk the stock smog heads & get some good ones like RHS/iron eagles, I guess it stands to reason, its all in the heads period, That explains why i ran so fast in that 360.