360 Swap for the 65 Dart

-
T

tsdart

Not So Newbie
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
94
Reaction score
2
Location
Eastern Shore of Md
Getting ready to do the swap, 273 coming out, mild 360 going in,

can we get a checklist for things to lookout for?
I have the motor mounts

What do I need to do for keeping the '65 904 trans.?

I see threads about it, talking about a special converter, or a bushing, but what's best and who sells them?

What else do I need to do or check?
 
360 Where the 273 was!
In a 64 – 66 Mopar a-body


Requires the center pump oil pan. (Not a truck pan)

You can use your current motor mounts if they are in good shape. The Schumachers are one option but another is that you can just weld a little triangle on the existing right side mount and drill it so it catches the other ear on the 360 block.

You can use a B&M flexplate (10239) to adapt a zero balance torque converter. If you want to use the early converter you will need a spacer as the pilot on the early converters is smaller. You can get that spacer ring from Torqueflite Patty. 206-365-1966. Another option is to put the front three main components from a 68 and later 904 into the early cable shifted 904, ending up with the later model input shaft, so you can use a later zero balanced torque converter. Or, have a custom torque converter made with the proper snout, input, and balance.

If you use the earlier iron water pump the stock radiator will work. Use a '65 water pump & your radiator lower hose lines up (360 water pump has lower hose on wrong side). If you use the 273 front cover & timing tab you will have to set TDC & mark the front dampener of the 360. The 360 timing cover marks are partially blocked when you use the early water pump.

Use the pulleys and alternator brackets from the 273

You will probably have to elongate one of the holes in the crank pulley as the 360 has one hole offset.

You will want to use the 90 deg oil filter adapter from the 273.

Tap the air injection holes under the exhaust ports and plug with 1/8” pipe plugs.

Your biggest challenge will be exhaust. 273 manifolds choke up a 360. Headers are expensive. Not much else fits. Search for the discussions......

Modify the transmission crossmember to provide clearance for dual exhaust.

Throttle cable bracket and kickdown linkage will probably require some individual modification to fit the new manifold.

Most everything else will fit from the 273 to the 360. Easy swap!
 
67Dart273 said:
This guy talks like maybe he's been there!!
Click to expand...
Oh yeah! Its all true. Bushing is about 45 bucks nowadays...Throw some 2 1/8 magnum logs on there, trim the steering tube..good to go. Might go with the 66 and later slim motor mounts on those brackets, depends on what you had, but it may give you more clearance where you need it. Might be able to use the existing timing mark on the 360 damper and 273 cover if you time it off #2 spark plug (theoretical if marks are exactly 90 off).
 
As detailed above, the 360 will pretty much bolt in place of the 273, just swap all the accessories.

Other things to consider...

While a 360 can be readily adapted to the existing 904, consider it's overall health. It may have served faithfully for many years behind a 273,a 360 may overwhelm it. A rebuild may be in your future.

The 7 1/4 rear will fail. A 360 will make it fail much more quickly.

Brakes?

Suspension condition?
 
pishta said:
... Might go with the 66 and later slim motor mounts on those brackets ...
Click to expand...
That would likely cause interference in the steering linkage. Look up my post where the inner tie rod stud barely clears the starter, and with the correct thick motor mounts. I did have the thin mounts on during initial build (w/o steering), more from accidental ordering. They help with hood clearance, but also wouldn't work with the later Federal pump I installed to match the later aluminum water pump. It barely clears the K-frame with thick mounts. I suggest staying with the cast iron w.p. if possible, especially if pwr steering and AC. The alum w.p. causes multiple issues in an early-A, as I found. The only advantage of the alum w.p. is more choice in radiators.

pishta said:
Might be able to use the existing timing mark on the 360 damper and 273 cover if you time it off #2 spark plug (theoretical if marks are exactly 90 off).
Click to expand...
That is a brilliant idea. I installed the later timing cover and alum w.p. and re-marked my 273 damper with a hacksaw. It was a bit inexact since I installed the 273 timing tab temporarily and had to stand it off to clear the w.p. If you do so, do this before installing the w.p. I will have to wait until the heads are off someday to verify, or maybe get a piston stop. I tried verifying from below (pan off), but too hard to arrange a dial indicator. I have read the two marks vary by 90 deg, but does anyone know if exactly true? If so, pishta's suggestion would be great.
 
I've done a little homework and parts grabbing over the years for this but man you guys are good!

Brakes are all new inside and out, still 10" drum but all good
New 1" torsion Bars
8-3/4 3.55 Sure grip, new or rebuilt from drum to drum waiting to go in
Transmission is rebuilt, maybe 10k on it.

I have a set of aftermarket motor mounts, and another set from abody Joe(?) I think.

Will 340 manifolds work on the 360? I have a couple sets here and had a set coated.

Trim the column for exhaust? eew? tell me more please.
 
Well, trouble in paradise, pulled apart the "fresh" 360 short block for clean up and inspection.
This thing has never been fired, yet the piston skirts have rubbed the walls, 1 is bad enough to feel it so this'll go back to the shop..

Is a 340 swap the same as the 360?

Timing cover?
Radiator hose?

thanks!
 
Where'd y'all go?

Is the oil pan on a 340 the same as the 360? this one has a truck pan and I have a 340 in the corner with the center sump...
 
also- will the 273 tining cover work on the 360? To let me use the 65 water pump and radiator and see my timing marks?
 
tsdart said:
also- will the 273 tining cover work on the 360? To let me use the 65 water pump and radiator and see my timing marks?
Click to expand...

Yes

tsdart said:
Where'd y'all go?

Is the oil pan on a 340 the same as the 360? this one has a truck pan and I have a 340 in the corner with the center sump...
Click to expand...

340 pan is not the same as a 360 truck or car pan. Might be able to use the 340 pan - not sure about that. I'd use the 273 oil pan as I've read it's got specific indentations in the pan for clearance with steering components. When I do the 340 into my 65 GT 'vert, I'll use the 65 timing chain cover and tab, 273 oil pan, Schmacher conversion mounts, and dress it just like a 273/235 Commando motor.
 
No. The 318/340 share a common oil pan, but the 360 has a smaller rear bearing so the pans won't interchange. For your application you need a 360 passenger car, center sump style pan.
Also, and I don't recall if anyone mentioned it, you'll need the dropped center link to clear that pan. A few of the 65 and a lot of the 66 slant 6 equiped cars came with the dropped center link, but you'll have to measure it to be certain. If I recall correctly, the drop should be 1 5/8" .
 
since you already have a 273 car , it should have the proper steering center link (V-8 cars have them , not slant 6 cars!)

You will need a car center sump oil pan and oil pump pickup for a 360 (273-318-340 pan does not fit a 360)

You will need to make spacers to fit the drivers side engine mount adapter to the block (or buy a set of shumaker adapter mounts, since early a-bodies never came with 340-360 from factory)

You will need either early a-body V-8 exhaust manifolds or a set of headers for an early a-body V-8. 340 manifolds are from either later a-body, E body or 71-73 B-body and will probably not work on an early A-body.

IMHO,

Bob
 
almost forgot,

You can use the eearly timing cover , but will have to relocate the timing marks 90 degrees on the balancer to accomadate the early covers have timing marks on the passenger side while the 360's came with them on the drivers side.

Bob
 
Awesome!
Shopping for an oil pan! Does anyone make a new one?


Also: 360 Torque Converter suggestions? I don't have one so it'll be a new one and it'll have to mate up to the '65 904 trans......
 
tsdart said:
Awesome!
Shopping for an oil pan! Does anyone make a new one?
Click to expand...

A quick check on eBay shows several companies offer brand new 360 car oil pans

tsdart said:
Also: 360 Torque Converter suggestions? I don't have one so it'll be a new one and it'll have to mate up to the '65 904 trans......
Click to expand...

You have several options:
1. previously mentioned swap out the front internals on your 904 to accept 68 and new converters and then buy a new 360 converter.

2. custom converter with large nose hub to fit the 67 and earlier 904.

3. Use a 68 and later 904 with the Imperial Services conversion kit (new shifter cable and minor mod to the valve body) which allows you to continue to use your stock 65 shifter (am going with this approach with my 340/904 conversion in my 65 GT 'vert).

4, Use a 68 and later 904 and either aftermarket cable operated shifter or 66 and up stock rod shifter and console (console is a really tight squeeze between the stock 65 seats - did this mod years ago).

5. Use a stock 67 - earlier converter with neutral balance flexplate.
 
OK, getting closer!

PULLEY QUESTION!

I stayed with the 360 timing cover, & water pump. Had my bottom radiator hoes connection moved.

What do I do for pulleys?

I can't get pulleys to line up.
I have the 273 alt bracket on.
I have the 273 crank pulley on
those 2 seem to line up
Seems like I need a super deep water pump pulley but don't have one

Is there a shorter 360 water pump?
 
well glad I read this thread before you got to far into it, 273 drivers side manifold on the drivers side will not fit if you have later model heads with the air holes or the pads for the air holes, grinding the head will not work the metal is very thin, same with grinding the manifold, 340 manifolds will NOT work unless you have manual steering,
 
I have manual steering and 340 manifolds, '77 vintage 360. I'm about as far into it as I can get without dropping it in the car.

Looking for Pulleys suggestions
 
I would suggest using either ALL of the front hardware from the 360 or ALL the front hardware from the 273.
 
C130 Chief said:
I would suggest using either ALL of the front hardware from the 360 or ALL the front hardware from the 273.
Click to expand...

All of the 273 stuff doesn't line up, I think it's the 360 water pump pushing the pulley out

The 360 came to me with no front hardware, I did rob some other 360/340 stuff but some of the 3 and 4 groove crank pulleys are just a little much, and still don't help me line up.

Is there a "shorter" 360 water pump? I can;t find anything that looks shorter, except the 273 water pump that dumps on the wrong side for me now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top