lolz. of course!
$200 plus the flim-flammer market book tax and dealing with them time pirates; a deal at twice the price!
360 vs 383
- Thread starter 318willrun
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$200 plus the flim-flammer market book tax and dealing with them time pirates; a deal at twice the price!
Icetech
Well-Known Member
damnit, i wish that were near me... i want that block. one will show up local eventually.. no rush
Let me give you some "real world Data". I grew up in a world of 100+ octane pump gas. Performance began with factory 10:1 to 10.5:1 compression engines. I lived 10 miles from a NHRA 1/4 mile dragstrip. A good number of young men drove muscle cars all the time. We had a quarter mile strip marked off out of town. We would run anyone any time. No one thought a "74" smog 360 Duster was fast, because in that environment they were not. And those were the best of the factory 360 built to make up for the demise of the 340 until the Little Red Express pickup. If you want a 383 to compare, try a 68-70 Road Runner. Heck, just add a cam to any 60's 383 with 10:1 compression, 68 up heads, and any decent intake and 750 carb and you will have a runner.
If you want to go to scenario 3 and 4 then a 360 becomes more viable. Aftermarket heads, pistons with some compression, a stroker kit. It still is not for me. I live in scenario 1 and 2 and have no personal interest in scenario 3 and 4. If I go bigger than a 340 it will be a big block, and a 383 suits me fine. The biggest problem with a big block in an A-Body is the expense and waiting for parts. Not a problem for me. As for rebuilding a 383, they are cheap, you probably won't need to grind a crank, just replace the wear items and pick a cam.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
BTW.. since people are talking motors in this thread.. is there anyone here that knows for sure how much cam the factory roller LA blocks can take using the OEM spider/dogbones? I had a guy tell me .525 and the lifter bodies will hit the dogbones but i'm at .532 without issue.. (i didn't think to check before i buttoned the motor up)
P.S. obviously that is valve lift
P.S. obviously that is valve lift
I guess for me, it's surprising (but not really) that the things that are important to me seem of no value to others. I really think bias rules the mind. LOLok... 318 is just milking us for video ideas now
Icetech
Well-Known Member
That's kinda life though.. there is **** that i love, like my drums that 99% of people here couldn't give a **** bout... I am enjoying this conversation though...
I have never owned a small block til this one i'm doing now and i'm enjoying it cause it's different for me and i'm learning a bit plus it falls into my realistic power goals, i don't need 700hp on the street, i need 425-450ish.. with gears and traction that's enough for fun for me.
P.S. BUT... i will say i find every single thing about a big block just easier to do/build...
I will say this from experience: I have owned multiple 360's and have not once had one disappoint me. Ever. In pickups, in vans, in Dusters, in Darts, not a one didn't meet my expectations.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
OK so anecdotal stories from 50 years ago are more accurate than clear drag strip results from 2023? Just because you lived in a time when high octane fuel was readily available or that you lived near a race track does not change the fact that 383s are not that great and never were. IMO, the race results speak for themselves no matter what lens you view them through.
I also never claimed 360s are inherently faster. Some cars with one of the two subject engines might be faster than others for various reasons. The engine architecture between the two platforms is too disparate to make this a truly valid comparison anyway but that said, at least on paper in stock form, they appear to be relatively similar which makes for an interesting debate.
Believe what you want, I don’t care. I’m also not sure what your point is though other than trying to prove what I posted is somehow invalid compared to some memory of yours that may or may not have happened exactly the way you think it did 50 some-odd years ago.
Look, any engine can be made to run if you put enough time, effort and money into it. There’s a well known ‘71 ‘Cuda 383 combo in NHRA Super stock that runs almost a second under the index which puts it well into the 9 second zone. It’s a bad *** ride even with the lower compression motor.
That’s a $100K + race car though wheeled by a pro who’s been doing it for over 40 years. The engine probably cost $20K to build to that level. It’s also an exception to the norm because you’d be hard pressed to find too many more competitive 383 combos in the upper ranks of NHRA super stock. Why? Because they don’t make sense to use when there are better performing options.
Again, I’m just not a fan of 383s. I wouldn’t choose to build one unless I was trying to fit into a certain class of racing or I was going for a factory correct restoration. The 400 is arguably the best platform to build so there is no logical reason to make things harder by starting with a lesser platform. I don’t need to prove a point that it cam be done, life is too short for that.
I’d also choose a 340 every time over a 360 but since 340 blocks have become unobtanium the 360 makes the most sense for small block builds. They are obviously more plentiful and respond to the same modifications as the 340 does. I believe a similarly modified 360 would be closer in performance to a 340 based combo than the 383 would be to the 400. Prove me wrong.
Years ago I did a mild 340, then took the heads, intake, cam and did the 360 block. Tried to get the same compression ratio. Same car, gears, exhaust, etc etc.... the 360 went 3 tenths faster.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Guys are running larger cams than that on stock roller setups.
How much lift with stock magnum roller lifters?
It's lobe lift you'd want to consider though, not valve lift.
Icetech
Well-Known Member
Yup, i just didn't know my lobe lift offhand
Saw a guy post he's running much more than i am without issue.. so now i know Plan to double check next time it's apart...P.S. i'm only .353 at the lobe, nothing huge.. i just trust the OEM lifters, plus they are cheap so.. win/win
I'm not saying the 360 did or didn't make more overall power, but at least some of that 3 tenths could be that more than likely the gears and stall suited the 360 better.
One of the main reasons to go larger less gear and stall generally needed.
MPH showed the 360 made more power.... by a little
DionR
Well-Known Member
I think a 5.9 should be a part of the discussion, it's still a 360 and bolts into the same spot. Most A-Bodies didn't come with a 360 or a 383, and if someone were to be looking at swapping a 360 in, the Magnum is just as much an option as a 383 out of a Roadrunner for the BB swap. If not more just because a 5.9 would be easier to find.
The option for factory roller lifters is huge to me. My brother was just talking about the cost of roller lifters for a BB...ouch.
Add that there are no low deck port EFI intakes, last I checked. Not that the 360 has that many aftermarket options, but it has at least 1 for LA heads and 1 for Magnum heads plus the OEM intake. I know most don't care about EFI, but it is an advantage to me.
I guess there is the option of raised port heads on a 383 and an RB EFI intake, but seems to me the raise port heads are out of production and expensive if you can find them.
That said, I STILL don't know which one I would pick, so I haven't voted.
The option for factory roller lifters is huge to me. My brother was just talking about the cost of roller lifters for a BB...ouch.
Add that there are no low deck port EFI intakes, last I checked. Not that the 360 has that many aftermarket options, but it has at least 1 for LA heads and 1 for Magnum heads plus the OEM intake. I know most don't care about EFI, but it is an advantage to me.
I guess there is the option of raised port heads on a 383 and an RB EFI intake, but seems to me the raise port heads are out of production and expensive if you can find them.
That said, I STILL don't know which one I would pick, so I haven't voted.
Even though there's is some benefit to run a 383 at lower hp like gearing, a 360 would generally make more sense for most unless you have or would rather invest in the bbm platform, with 360 only place to go is basically 408, starting with 383 is ground floor up to 500+ cid are possible down the road swaps.
In the 475-600+ hp range It seems generally people would move up to a 408, in this range would most say the 383/389 has the advantage over a stock stroke 360/365 ?
In the 475-600+ hp range It seems generally people would move up to a 408, in this range would most say the 383/389 has the advantage over a stock stroke 360/365 ?
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
If you want 500 inch engine I think a low deck big block wins hands down.
Some cars run and some don’t, in my early years I had 2 1972 satellites, 4 door get to work beaters. 1 ran like a cut cat, good mileage, the other was a turd, less mileage also. Same cars, carbs rear gear and so on, was the cam off or what, I screwed with timing and such on the lazy one and never could get it to run like the other one.
Both were 318 plain janers
I've seen this plenty of times! All the things it could be... just to name a few..
- better converter?
- better compression due to less CC head and better deck height?
- Just simply one engine in better condition than the other?
- One has a stuck heat riser in the exhaust manifold? (seen this more than once!)
@318willrun is this all academic or are you thinking about doing a 383 swap ?
I've had my own reasons of when and why I like each of these in certain environments. I wanted to see what others thought or how they felt about the comparison. I did mention a couple of my reasonings...
- As for a 383 swap, I haven't found the right project to build my 383 for, but we never know what tomorrow holds....
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