Swinger 340
Well-Known Member
BB are great on a strait line (weekends), heavy on the turns (not for a daily driver). The question at topic was which motor, but wanted power steering. The 360 would be a well balance setup and my choice for his app.
68 Cuda 383 vs a 360
- Thread starter tooslow
- Start date
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carfreak6970
Well-Known Member
I am in the process of getting a 67 Dart GTS on the road with a 383 and a four gear. I have no experience driving it (hope to get it there shortly), but you can check out my build thread in my signature to see the things I had to deal with. I got the TTI long tube headers and they are a pain to get it in. The engine does have to be removed from the mounts and raised to get both sides in. If you are working with an engine that is already broken in (TTI says not to use their coated headers for break in) I would suggest putting the engine on the K frame with the trans and headers attached to it and lower the car on to it. Would be less of a hassle. I took measurements of how high my car had to be to squeeze the driver side header in, probably would be a little easier if you could get more room under the car.
I also installed factory power steering with my set up. TTI says their headers do work with factory power steering. Well I had to dimple a couple of the pipes to get it to fit but it is close. Real close. I may end up getting a smaller steering gear to gain a little more clearance but with everything in the engine bay and no access to a lift I am dreading ripping everything out to potentially swap steering gears. Plus Id rather get it on the road and enjoy it before regulations start to change. When it comes to power steering pump you will have to use a Federal pump. A saginaw wont work due to the line connections hitting I think the motor mount. THATS THE OTHER THING!! the motor mounts. On 383 a bodies they had bosses cast into the block on the drivers side right below the head. If you get the motor mount that mounts to that you are stuck using the federal pump. But if you go with the 440 a body drivers side mount that will mount to the oil pump boss area and may be able to run a different power steering pump. You can find those pumps and get the brackets new. Just be careful and get a big block pulley. They are different between small and big blocks.
again, you can look at my build thread since my car is being set up similarly with a big block to what you are after. Biggest difference is my K frame was originally for a big block.
I also installed factory power steering with my set up. TTI says their headers do work with factory power steering. Well I had to dimple a couple of the pipes to get it to fit but it is close. Real close. I may end up getting a smaller steering gear to gain a little more clearance but with everything in the engine bay and no access to a lift I am dreading ripping everything out to potentially swap steering gears. Plus Id rather get it on the road and enjoy it before regulations start to change. When it comes to power steering pump you will have to use a Federal pump. A saginaw wont work due to the line connections hitting I think the motor mount. THATS THE OTHER THING!! the motor mounts. On 383 a bodies they had bosses cast into the block on the drivers side right below the head. If you get the motor mount that mounts to that you are stuck using the federal pump. But if you go with the 440 a body drivers side mount that will mount to the oil pump boss area and may be able to run a different power steering pump. You can find those pumps and get the brackets new. Just be careful and get a big block pulley. They are different between small and big blocks.
again, you can look at my build thread since my car is being set up similarly with a big block to what you are after. Biggest difference is my K frame was originally for a big block.
prodart440
Active Member
I got my Dart from my uncle. He was building a 273, I decided to go with a 383. I kept the power steering and power brakes. It fit tight, but works great. I would opt for the big block!
If you put the aluminum parts on a b engine & have already a lighter weight stroker assembly, it's easy to weigh the same as a small block. That revs just as quick. Unless you have a small block with all the aluminum parts lol. Go big block !
All good points, but you know, I think maybe the biggest one....and feel free to chime in if you disagree is the modern thinner ring packs. That right there is what kinda unlocked some "free" power by reducing the heck out of friction. Because we all know the friction of the rings against the cylinders is THE biggest source of friction in a piston engine.
It's funny you mention that, because the big blocks are physically easier to change plugs on in an A body. @abodyjoe will attest to that as well.
...and McRib.....gag a maggot. lol
It's just not so. A big block is "about" only 150 pounds more than a small block. That's a smokin hot 5'9" redhead with big boobs on the hood. It's just not that big a difference. Again, @abodyjoe will tell you, big block A bodies can handle quite well on the street.
SLOPAR72
Well-Known Member
This was the Saginaw pump I ended up making work when I was putting the 512 in my car. With the Hydroboost and PS combined I was told by 2 Vendors the Mogul pump was going to be an issue. Anyhoo, this was my solution to the pump problem....
BTW- It was a 70-74 B/E body Big block car.
JW
BTW- It was a 70-74 B/E body Big block car.
JW
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
I found most things easier to do on my big block abodies. Those top trans bolts much easier, timing and dist work is much easier, plugs some easier some not. Hard to beat small block tti headers for plug access. That being said my big blocks with pro part headers weren't bad at all to get to.
Plugs and headers are always an issue somewhere. Sometimes, it’s a zero issue, sometimes, it’s a PIA. The typical 1-5/8 small block header is a PIA on plugs 5 & 7, that’s it. On the headers I had for the bb-400, (they were Hedman B body headers-1-7/8) IIRC, it was 5 & 6 were pretty tight and a pain.
RRR is correct about weight and driving feel. While you can feel the difference, It’s not a weight that is throwing your car around uncontrollably like you have 250 sliding side to side on the nose. Upgrading the suspension is a plus to making the car handle well. I drove around a ‘71 Duster a/a 400B-727 that replaced the /6 and left in the /6 suspension up front. No sway bar stock T bars on the stock tire size. Once you learn how the car reacts, it’s fine on the road.
RRR is correct about weight and driving feel. While you can feel the difference, It’s not a weight that is throwing your car around uncontrollably like you have 250 sliding side to side on the nose. Upgrading the suspension is a plus to making the car handle well. I drove around a ‘71 Duster a/a 400B-727 that replaced the /6 and left in the /6 suspension up front. No sway bar stock T bars on the stock tire size. Once you learn how the car reacts, it’s fine on the road.
If it's just going to be a driver go smallblock/stroker. If all about race only then go big block. The biggest problem will be finding motor mounts unless you go with a front engine plate. Headers are not cheap either.
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
If I could find a metric ring pack for a 4.375" bore they would be utilized. My go to for a stroker is either a 451" or 511" 400 based engine. Both of those utilize the 1.320 CH piston. On the more serious n20 stuff we use a ductile iron hellfire ring. I want to try this one:
AC 4.375" Hellfire Ductile Iron Ring Set, .017" Dykes top, 1/16" 2nd & 3/16" SS HT oil rings. (set) - Alan Johnson Performance Engineering
I like the idea of gaining meat between the top of the ring and piston crown however the .017" number scares me.
For reference:
1/16" = .0625 = 1.5875mm
.017" = .4318mm
That is a very thin top ring and I would think it would increase the maintenance intervals beyond the hobbyist level.
Maybe we will see some 1.0/1.0/3.0mm packs come out for 4.32 and 4.34" nominal bore size one of these decades.
You can always have something custom made if an off the shelf is not available.....such as a stock 3.375 383 or 400 piston with the thin ring pack. As long as you have the wallet power, you will be accommodated. lol
That’s half the problem ….
mygasser
Well-Known Member
what is? only having half the cash needed?
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
Usually the piston manufacturer will makea few changes forlittle to no cost. The last set of 4.375" 1.320 CH pistons I had with upgraded pins and hellfire rings were 3-400 more than the same pistons with standard pins and moly rings.
A few weeks ago I recieved a quote from RaceTech for a set spec'd identical to the Diamonds. $1400 rated for 400hpshotof NOS or 15psi boost.
I would not mess with the ring pack on anything less than a race engine. With a .017" ring pack a vacuum pump would most likely be required.
Not sure I would use a 4.25" bore block for anything other than class racing or a resto these days. Basically if you need anything that requires more than a 2.14" intake valve you are in 400 440 territory.
For instance, on a 4.375" bore 400 block a 2.30" intake valve hits the opposing cylinder wall at a little over .800 lift. 2.250 valve no problem. My point is that bore size is very relevant to valve size and cam spec. The larger bore engines avoid some of these headaches IMO.
A few weeks ago I recieved a quote from RaceTech for a set spec'd identical to the Diamonds. $1400 rated for 400hpshotof NOS or 15psi boost.
I would not mess with the ring pack on anything less than a race engine. With a .017" ring pack a vacuum pump would most likely be required.
Not sure I would use a 4.25" bore block for anything other than class racing or a resto these days. Basically if you need anything that requires more than a 2.14" intake valve you are in 400 440 territory.
For instance, on a 4.375" bore 400 block a 2.30" intake valve hits the opposing cylinder wall at a little over .800 lift. 2.250 valve no problem. My point is that bore size is very relevant to valve size and cam spec. The larger bore engines avoid some of these headaches IMO.
Alot of work & money for a peak 7-8 hp.
Engine masters did a test 1.2 rings vs 5/16 rings.
That test would show even less of a gain vs the mostly standard 1/16 ring pack for newer performance Pistons. Probably closer to no gain or half a pony
Engine masters did a test 1.2 rings vs 5/16 rings.
That test would show even less of a gain vs the mostly standard 1/16 ring pack for newer performance Pistons. Probably closer to no gain or half a pony
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