1. bballfan1

    bballfan1 Well-Known Member

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    If you just wan to win a round or two once in awhile, and have fun, 4-speed. If you really want to be a good racer(round wins and overall wins), put an automatic in and start practicing...............I have done both, and winning is a lot more fun!
     
  2. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Here's my problem (budget) if I save for the dana, I'll be saving through next race season. If I go with a nodular 8 3/4 , 35 spline axles, I can start racing again and (try) lol to be easier on take off.
    And believe me when I say, I hear everyone saying your spending more money not getting the dana in the first place.
    I have to make choices and I was not even thinking of having to put a new rearend in this winter. I have a long list of upgrades I had planned for the winter - put new leaf springs and get rid of the slant six ones, race shocks instead of street shocks, new MSD instead of stock, 2.02 intake valves instead of 1.88's, roll bar I'm only two tenths from needing anyways, roller rockers (maybe 1.6's) instead of stock 273's.
    I'll probably do the rearend last as it's the easiest anyways. If by some chance I have 3k for a dana I'll have a dana, and if not I'll just have to make do.
    And just to cut off the guy who inevitably is going to say I should get the dana first- I've made my choices and that long list bugs me more. Again, if I choose to use a upgraded 8 3/4 for another (hopefully) year and being aware of its limitations I may have a chance at using the vast majority of next winters budget on a dana.
    As for now, tomorrow is payday and I have to call Brewer's performance and spend this month's car budget on the 4 speed parts I need while I still remember how those 94 parts go together #-o
     
  3. replicaracer43

    replicaracer43 Old school member

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    well, instead of spending 3k on a dana, why don't you spend 1600 on a sof loc clutch so you wont keep breaking rearends? That clutch you already bought is part of your problem in my opinion. But regardless, I think its cool what your doing with the car. Carry on
     
  4. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Win automatically NEVER!! :burnout:
    no matter - there will always be someone faster than , luckier than ect.....
    i wouldn't even want to go racing if I had an automatic
    we have a 4 speed only class, but I rarely participate in it as I like to occasionally put automatic cars on the trailers THATS FUN ! :D

    agreed though - everyone has there own ideas of fun......
     
  5. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    now I was thinking about a different disk while I was in there ?
     
  6. acpat

    acpat Well-Known Member

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    If you need help just pm me or post on here I/we will be glad to help you out. Get a broom stick and saw it off for a counter shaft tool. Steel forks come from overdrives. Every overdrive 4 speed has a set. For that matter anything with a interlock side cover has a set. If you keep beating on the brass ones they will fail. They then get ran between the gears which splits the case like a melon. cheap insurance.

    slick shifting a 4 speed is a crap idea. Once it is all burred up it is worthless junk. Dana 60 is not that expensive if your a cheap dindu. use bearing ends off 8 3/4. truck housing and used axles.
     
  7. docdodge440

    docdodge440 Well-Known Member

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    Hay stand by your 4 speed!! The auto boys just dont know what its like. My 74 Scamp is a 4 speed CAUSE I BUILT IT THAT WAY!!!.... Autos are for boys whos mamas said they would go blind if they played with there sticks......
     
  8. sireland67

    sireland67 Well-Known Member

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    Build a Dana for it, car is not worth a crap sitting in the garage next season broke.
    2th's really, you mods sound like they will cost 3k, time you factor the cost of fixing the broke 8.75 you have.
    Find a junk yard 60 out of any GM, Ford, Dodge truck, have it shortened to off the shelf length axes and be done. Not as much money as you think.
     
  9. docdodge440

    docdodge440 Well-Known Member

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    What every bodys saying about the 8 3/4 vrs a dana is good advise. Thats why Im setting out raceing season. Built a spool/ supercar bar /mosher axle 8 3/4. Thought it would hold up. wrong again...As I got faster and launched harder,m I sheared my L. axel off and twisted the R, like yours. There is a reason mother Mopar put the danas under the hemis and as a option behind the 4 speed cars. The auto guys dont get it, and never will! you did right saying thank you but NO thank you. I gotta queston how you get away by not haveing a blow resistent bell housing around the clutch??? My track let me run 1 tiime only at 1/2 throttel untill I got a pro race Lakewood, and I had to keep the numbers where they could see them. I had to get a Bbody one when I built mine and I had to build the z bar bracket (in my pics.) Nobody was building RB/Abodys then Too f..k crazy for them. There are tracks that have stick, no box , no bottel class and with what you have done You would Rule!!
     
  10. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    I'm now swayed at a less agressive clutch disc. I have no intention of sitting out an entire season. If by sheer luck i can keep a well built nodular 35 splined spooled 8 3/4 togather through next season I'll sale it for what I can get and start that dana. It could happen this winter, but I'm putting other stuff first.
     
  11. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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  12. ssba

    ssba Well-Known Member

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    Well fed hounds. Enjoy the beach.
     
  13. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Check list for Brewer's performance tomorrow ---
    Counter shaft tool $8.95 (I'd make one if it wasn't so cheap)
    Master rebuild kit 99.95
    x4 synchros 49.95
    Side cover gearshift levers x3 @ 72.95each
    steel shift forks x2 @ 59.95each
    Three new operating levers 49.95
    anything else ? ?
     
  14. sireland67

    sireland67 Well-Known Member

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    I would add a new pilot bushing for the crankshaft to the list, since you said there was some play in input shaft, old one might have an odd wear pattern to it.
     
  15. acpat

    acpat Well-Known Member

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    new countershaft (do not skip this)
    trans gel assembly lube (unless you want to chase rollers or find one in bottom of case when your done)
    snap ring assortment pack (always use largest one you can then shim) get it tight. order 2pks
    snap ring shim pack enables you to make up for lack of snap ring thickness order 2 pks
    get steel forks used from overdrive 4 speed. save $$$$
    new strut keys
    new syncronizer springs
    roller pilot bearing for 1990's dodge dakota get rid of bronze POS
    why new gearshift levers ? did you mic them ?
    why new levers ? you win the lottery ?
    most important thing is take pics as you take it apart. (I know you forgot)
    Now for all that, that cast iron pig is almost indestructible( you could reassemble it with a gasket kit, syncros, small parts kit and counter shaft and be fine)
     
  16. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s FABO Gold Member

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    You cannot convert a ball detent cover to a rooster comb cover if that's what you are thinking. But if your ball-detent levers have stripped threads or well rounded corners from running loose, well those are hard to repair.
    The reverse lever is cover specific, so if yours is not too badly damaged, I would not change it.I would, however renew the O-ring on it.
    I use any light grease to hold the needles. Vaseline is too light at room temp, but works if it's cooled.
    As to the C/S, they have 4 lives; this way,that way, upsidedown way, repeat,lol. I'm running a 1968 model.
    Personally, I'd buy 2 sets of brass rings. On account of it doesn't take much of a tweak to get them out-of-round, which makes them more or less junk. I have saved them but it takes a special touch.You may end up not needing to open the second pack, but ..................better to have the option, than wait for another pack to arrive. And you'll need em sooner or later. It's a normal wear part.
     
  17. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Relatively new pilot bearing as soon that's what you're talking about? And it was actually the rear output bearings that was very loose. Thank you for you are concerns.....
     
  18. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    That won't help. You bought a junk clutch. I'm only on page 3 of 5 pages but if you think you want to keep playing with a stick you better learn how the CLUTCH works long before you care about how the gearbox works. You can't buy a junk clutch and then try and bandaid the thing with the 2 step and tire pressure or worse yet, a dude that calls himself weedburner will come along and try to sell you his screen door slider deal.

    You can save yourself a ton of greif and wasted time and money if you just suck it up and buy the sof-lok now. Send you can to Lakewood and pay them the $250.00 for the window and recert and LEARN how clutches WORK and how to TUNE with the clutch. I twisted 35 spline axles in a Dana with a junk clutch. I wasted more A833 4 speeds than I care to mention because I didn't LEARN clutches. You can be competitve with a stick, but the LAST people you want to learn from is the guys telling you to put a auto puker in it. Go look at STOCK eliminator guys and what they do. They are some of the SMARTEST dudes around and go unnoticed for the most part. I rank the real STOCK guys with the Pro Stock guys for ingenuity and getting the most out of a limited combination.

    Take for example a G/S car (if you are talking MoPar here guys are getting hosed because they have to run 8.5:1 340's against 10.5:1 327's and 350's...NHRA sure is fair ain't it???) where they are limited to STOCK carbs (including TQ's and Q-jets) STOCK intake manifolds, STOCK valve sizes, hydraulic lifters, STOCK rocker arms, limited lift and yet, in my last National Dragster, a G/S car was running 10.90's!!!! Think about that! I think it was a 69 scrungemaro, but it still is no more than 10.5:1 compression, it most likely had a Holley (I can't remember if the 69 350 had a Holley or Q-jet) but it is a factory carb on a cast iron intake running 10.90's. Pretty impressive.

    I know it's hard to swallow that you bought the wrong clucth but you did. Sell it to a drive through type or a garage queen and get a soflok. I drive one on a DD basis. The other thing is you don't need a Jerico (in fact, if I had to buy a gearbox it wouldn't be a Jerico, I would buy the G-Force) you need the correct clutch. Then, get a CHRYSLER book on the 833 and read it, skipping ALL the clutch info. Then, THINK very hard about how slick shifting is done and WHY you do it (most guys don't know why it MUST be done with a soflok style clutch). After you get that figured out, then THINK through how to make it streetable. You can make a slick shifted box a daily driver, streetable deal. I know, because I do it, and drive it with a soflok clutch. And what is really sad is the nattering naybob's and knownothing flat earthers can't do it, but my WIFE can drive the car (and does). My wife ain't no sissy but she ain't an MMA fighter either. So, if she can do it, why not you?

    You can save some bucks if you can find a used BB/Long cover and send it to Cale Aronson at Blck Magic clutches. He will make it adjustable for you and help you learn to use it. That way you can use the flywheel you already have. Unless you bought a STEEL flywheel. Then you need to sell that and get an aluminum FW, you just don't need the hammer of a 30 pound FW. The disc is $200.00 bucks. So if you have the FW you can sell what you have and pay for the disc and a BB/Long cover (diaphrams are for birth control, not clutches). Then you would need to pay Cale to make it adjustable.

    One last thing. Before I had my cover made adjustable, I ran 880 pounds of base (static) pressure and just the lever for counter weight. That's all the clutch pressure I had. The PLATE PRESSURE is what kills parts. For my new set up, I'm going to start at about 700 pounds of base and about 30 grams of counter weight and tune from there. Dang hard to break parts with a tune up like that. And I drive it on the street. So does the wife. If you get the clutch correct, you will have to remove the big "helper" spring on the pedal uner the dash. If you don't, the clutch pedal will stay on the floor.
     
  19. yellow rose

    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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    So, now I read all the posts. When you twist splines like you did it's 100% clutch. You will KILL 40 spline axles too (don't ask), bend 5/8ths drive studs and all the other crap.

    You need STEEL shift forks. Don't grind or "taper" the drive hubs. That won't do anything. All you parts look runable in the pics. Don't get excited about cluster gear clearance. As long as it's in spec, let it go. I had a friend spend big $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ trying to "tighten" up Chryslers "loose" tolerances and it didn't do anything except waste time and burn more cash than required.

    Again, THINK about slick shifting, about why it does and why it's done. Then think about how you can slick shift and make it streetable. You can do it. You can slick shift it yourself, in your shop, with a hand grinder and some aluminum oxide grinding stones. Never use carbide on the gears. Grind EVERY OTHER TOOTH off of the 36 clutching teeth on the gear (so you are removing 18 teeth) and then remover every other tooth on the slider. Do it to 2nd, 3rd and the input. DO NOT REMOVE ANY TEETH FROM 1ST GEAR AND ONLY REMOVE HALF OF THE TEETH ON THE 2ND GEAR SIDE OF THE 1-2 SLIDER. Then think about what you did, and make it streetable. You can do it. You still need a better clutch (actually the correct clutch). I'm telling you, you can do it, when it's done correctly, you wife can drive it. If you really want to be badazz, you remove 2 teeth and leave one. We used to call that "Pro Shifting" cuz we all know if you want anything to be badazz, you just add PRO to it. But that is a waste of time. You don't need it. But you need the soflok and the slick shift. BTW...don't base your shift RPM on where max torque is, or whatever you were saying earlier about it wanting to rev past 7K but max torque was lower. That is why stick guys using off the shelf cams or giving up big ET. A conver slides into the next gear. The stick pulls the engine down further. So how well your engine recovers RPM is almost as important as how much HP you make.

    I threw that last bit in just for free.

    Keep the stick.
    Spend your money correctly the first time.
    If you don't learn clutches you can't build anything strong enough for the abuse.
     
  20. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s FABO Gold Member

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    I modded my CenterForce diaphragm pressure plate to be a pseudo soft lock. And I shelved the CFII disc. Between the two of those, they were breaking stuff on the street, with 295s. Two 833-O/Ds, one r&p, & 1 yoke; Gone! On the plus side it made a heck of a chirp going into third. That always impressed passengers.That would be about 90 mph with 4.30s.
    The CF has flyweights,that increase the clamp load with rpm. If you dump the clutch at an rpm where the flyweights are out, it really slams the disc. If the disc takes it,the torque goes out and slams the driveshaft, which.... well you get it. So the cure for me was a factory 340disc (remenber I'm a streeter) and I shimmed the pp away from the big fat factory flywheel about .040 or so, using plane old washers.
    What I discovered was that the flyweights come on about 2500 to 3000 rpm. Now I can blip the throttle and dump the clutch and drive away like it was no biggie. That pos 30# flywheel stores enough inertia to launch the car, and the pseudo soft-loc lets it slip enough to not be hard on my neck.Another nicety is the engine will pull the car around on hard ground, at an idle, without slipping the clutch, and without stalling,lurching, or generally acting like a pos. Naw, the big flywheel and the "slipper" clutch take all the fuss out of the beast,lol
    The 340 discs have a limited lifespan, as the spring pockets usually split open and eject the springs, after which it vibrates. Yeah the clutch occasionaly slips when I don't expect it too, but around 2500 to 3000 the flyweights take over, so no biggie. And it's not really adjustable. But I don't need a $2500 clutch for what I'm doing, cuz I'm a streeter.So I'm probably talkin' through my hat, as they say, or something like that.
    But I haven't broken anything, besides clutch discs, since about 2005 or possibly 06. And the powertrain hasn't been opened up since either. That'd be about 100,000 miles ago. No typo there.
     
  21. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Well AJ there goes your long winded award -- LOL
    I'll get back to the thread here in a couple hours I've got to get some tires and rims taken care of for a 1941 Studebaker I just inherited.
     
  22. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s FABO Gold Member

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    Well there is that. Thanks for the giggles,J
     
  23. sireland67

    sireland67 Well-Known Member

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    Pictures of the 1941?
     
  24. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    You call yourself yellow ? (rose)
    Your coming on way to strong, way to quickly. And to be honest all of your help got lost in your attitude.
    let us recap- shall we ?
    First I've never seen you on this forum and your telling me what I BETTER learn to do ?
    And what to learn, what to look at?
    You talk about streetable ? I only drive it on the street to test to make sure new parts work before I go to the dragstrip.
    I'm sure your wife drives your car and I hope she enjoys it! My wife has her own and works on it and enjoys it (66 barracuda)
    I think you're starting to get my point here that I'm not trying to make an enemy and I sure appreciate all of your help that it seems like your trying to give. please reread what you've written and read it as if its being said to you and see if that's the way you like being talked too?
    I'm not going to be put in my place by a forum newbie and that's that! Let's work this out and help each other that's what the forms for.
     
  25. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    Well like I said I inherited it so don't be expecting something pretty yet. But I just got new white wall tires from Summit and all of the interior is at the upholstery shop. so here are the humble beginnings. And just not to steer this thread in the wrong direction if we go much further with this subject I'll just put it in a new thread in the general forum.View attachment 20151014_125441.jpg
     
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