famous bob
mopar misfit
you gain less cyl. wall loading w/ longer rods, do some research .
400 builds-anybody?? NON STROKER!
- Thread starter DusterKrazy
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68 HEMI GTS
Well-Known Member
Again, not an issue with a 1.88 rr. Maybe you should do some research.
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Agree with both of you on that. Just tryin to research if there’s a good reason besides a light piston to go a longer rod 400 before I build it or just stick with the 400. Gotta get lighter forged pistons anyway. Agreed, 1.88 or 1.8 for 440’s or 400’s are great rod ratios. Just wondered if the 440 rod would give the 400’s stroke more torque. Or is it a mute point?... Dunno.
68 HEMI GTS
Well-Known Member
cuda620, what exare you looking to do? What parts do you already have that you can use? IMO messing with the rod length in a 400 is a mute point unless there is a specific advantage that might be dictated by say a class type application. 400’s run great, they just need some compression and decent heads.
If your gonna buy rods and expensive pistons to mess with the geometry, I would absolutely put a turned down 440 crank and buy the corisponding rotating parts. Those are great motors that also have longevity. Only makes sense from a cost vs what your gonna gain view.
If your gonna buy rods and expensive pistons to mess with the geometry, I would absolutely put a turned down 440 crank and buy the corisponding rotating parts. Those are great motors that also have longevity. Only makes sense from a cost vs what your gonna gain view.
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I’m not tryin to do anything. I have 2/440’s and 2/400’s. I’m gonna put 1 in a 67 Cuda. 400 fits better 440 is cheaper. Get a light Ross or wisco piston for the 440 it’ll run as good as a 451 without a 500 to 800 dollar crank. Not gonna do a stroker. Can’t afford the crank work or purchase. Gonna use what I got. And it gotta be competitive with the LS camaros around here.
In staying with the stock stroke, a lot of performance can be found. One would have to be careful of the normal short stroke reactions to big cams. Hence the popular reason to stroke.
There are plenty of builds to copy and emulate in the sticky section up top in the racers forum. “How to run 12’s, 11’s, 10’s, etc....” Many people have left there recipes behind to copy or follow along well with. You may not have to copy them exactly. Just pay attention and make any changes minor. Every change can have a big effect.
There are plenty of builds to copy and emulate in the sticky section up top in the racers forum. “How to run 12’s, 11’s, 10’s, etc....” Many people have left there recipes behind to copy or follow along well with. You may not have to copy them exactly. Just pay attention and make any changes minor. Every change can have a big effect.
I did a 400 with a 383 forged crank, Hemi rods and shelf pistons a few years back. Worked great for what it was. I don't think I'd bother doing it again but it is certainly possible to build something like that if you're willing to track down the various parts.
famous bob
mopar misfit
using what u got is good , to me !
Andy, what was the advantage to that combo? Or was it just an experiment to see what it would do? I’ve noticed you do a lot of builds. Then share your info on here.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
More mid and upper rpm torque, but a small amount , maybe for a dedicated track car after oiling system is turned to dry sump.
2 to 1 is deemed ideal for very high rpms, formula 1 lives by it.
Chrysler was very much into the idea of rpm capable engines, they loved developing for NASCAR and there is quite a bit more potential in all of their engines than most others which were mostly limited to their very top performance line. Sbc leaned to short rod as a by product of increasing torque by stroke so that they had 'decent' small block truck motor, lower rod ratio can help out of the hole some and more acceration from bdc/tdc could utilize the ...ill keep it simple, the heads they had. Just deleted 20 lines so I don't go on a AJ novel trip. Lol
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Bighead440
Well-Known Member
I built a 400 (non-stroker, not even bored oversize) kind of out of being a tightwad and also a stop-gap temporary engine for a '70 Challenger R/T I bought. I had a '77 Newport that I needed out of the way, so I pulled the whole front subframe/eng/trans and scrapped the rest. The engine was well maintained, with very little ridge in the bores, so I decided to reuse the pistons and not bore. I used some 906 heads I had used on a truck that I retired, and they were done-up with stainless standard sized valves and hardened seats, Crane single springs and a little bowl machining. I had them milled .060" and the intake side cut .072" so the intake would line up. I used a Comp Cams "Dual Energy" cam (DE275), which was supposed to be the hot ticket back then with iron HP exhaust manifolds. The tired 383 in the Chally had a DP4B intake, so I used it with a 750 Edelbrock that I had laying around. With just these mods and a 2500 stall 11" converter and 3.23 gears, it was a screamer. I loved it, it felt like a 440 or better, and it sounded really wicked with Hooker Competition Turbo mufflers and 2.5" pipes through stainless/aftermarket 2.5" dual outlet R/T tips. I wanted to do a Vanishing Point tribute car one day, with a 440, but alas, life happened and I never had time to really do that. A nice fellow saw the car and wanted to buy it, never having driven it or hearing it run, but his price was right and I let it go. He has many MoPars (some big block strokers, too) and after he drove it home, he was very impressed and wanted details on the "smogger 400" build. They are unappreciated for sure, with lots of potential if you give them what engines want!!
Bighead440
Well-Known Member
Consider doing a 400 with aftermarket pistons (valve reliefs!) like KB and 75cc aluminum heads. I think Edelbrock E-Streets are available in 84 or 75cc out of the box or you can easily mill 84's to 75cc.
Yes, I’ve got eddy performer rpms to go on either engine. Also have Manley 6.76 440 rods for either engine. 400’s gotta have new pistons regardless. Thinkin, Ross forged .990 pin.
What American manufacturers are out there making 400/440 stock or stroker cranks?
Bighead440
Well-Known Member
Eagle H-beam, bushed for 1.094" (stock) pin. Not many floating pin pistons though...
EchoSixMike
Well-Known Member
If you get the crank throws ground to 2.200 you can use a BBC 6.800 rod with the Icon IC 828 flat top piston. It puts the piston right at zero deck, often slightly proud once you level mill the deck on the old blocks. Notionally 9.980, but the last three I have personally built have cleaned up at 9.965, 9.965 and 9.970. I would go with the IC 828 piston because it's significantly lighter than their 1.480 CH offerings.
I'm doing one with this combo right now, probably using some rubbed on 906 heads. I bought a set of Manley hemi rods(from AndyF), 6.965, and used those with a 440 crank and 1.12 CH Icon pistons for a 457" motor(452 heads, about 265cfm at .550). Long rod ratios provide lower sidewall loading, and longer dwell times at TDC/BDC(for better charge fill), but they also create greater acceleration loads on pistons and rods. These are all fairly minor issues for the vast majority of racers at the sportsman level. I work with a former NASCAR engineer and we often go silly complex with some of the junk I build for fun. I have more time than money, and free run of a machine shop. Almost everyone would be better served with spending their $ on more cubic inches, more head flow and more cam, probably in that order. S/F....Ken M
I'm doing one with this combo right now, probably using some rubbed on 906 heads. I bought a set of Manley hemi rods(from AndyF), 6.965, and used those with a 440 crank and 1.12 CH Icon pistons for a 457" motor(452 heads, about 265cfm at .550). Long rod ratios provide lower sidewall loading, and longer dwell times at TDC/BDC(for better charge fill), but they also create greater acceleration loads on pistons and rods. These are all fairly minor issues for the vast majority of racers at the sportsman level. I work with a former NASCAR engineer and we often go silly complex with some of the junk I build for fun. I have more time than money, and free run of a machine shop. Almost everyone would be better served with spending their $ on more cubic inches, more head flow and more cam, probably in that order. S/F....Ken M
Penstarpurist
Well-Known Member
We put a 400 in our 73 duster. Fits in well, seems to make good power, cheap and easy to find. I've picked up a few of them for literally trade for parts. I think most people think of them as motor home anchors and work truck engines. Which works for me, as I will buy them all day everyday. Got 383's as well. Cost wise they are still a big block mopar when you got to buy parts for them, so why not go for it.
did a 400 with low compression 1.91 comp height 440 pistons. Comes in about .015 below and brings compresion to 9.5. Made 425 hp on dyno with a 220 226 voodoo cam. Made a nice street engine. Or 1.87CH 493 stroker 440 pistins will bring you .045 below.
Thank you. I was wondering about how big of a cam I could use and the compression I’d have with that combo. Which heads?
Bighead440
Well-Known Member
I've always wanted to try the 440 piston route. With 400 rods, did the skirts clear the stock crank counterweights? Never was sure about that aspect of it. The stroker pistons probably have a trimmed skirt. Thanks for this post, love it!
Stock cast iron 452 with stock valves and bowl area just cleaned up. The pistons fit in like a glove.
Silv-O-Lite Cast Pistons 1276-040 Also used a .020 steel mopar headgasket to keep compression up and the cam is ground @ 112 for smoother idle which he wanted and made 16" of vacuum for breaks.
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