440 on the bottle build, questions

[Cope]

Im still looking at parts and want some advice on my build.
1973 440, .30 over.
Forged crank, Rods.
Full roler top end.
Harland 1.6 rockers.
Comp xr286R-10
906 heads worked by Gromm Racing heads.
2.22 intake
1.84 ext
Eddy Victor Intake.
950 1050 carb? (4150 bolt pattern)

Gonna buid the headders. (2 1/8 primary?) No inner fenders.
3" pipe

Tubs and 28-16.5-16 slicks. (Im thinking 4.30 or 4.56 rear gear) TH 350 or TH 400 auto. (im looking to scavenge all the free parts out of the shop..)
I got the stuff to CC the heads, just aint done it yet.

What pistions should I be looking at to get me running pump gas?

Is this even doable or am I way out of line? (This is a long term project)






I want to start with a smallish shot, say 75-150. (wet,Into the manifold)

I want to not just beat but blow the dam doors off my pops in his car. 1,200 LBS @ 650 HP

Thanks for all the time and advice.

 

[hangn0ut]

650hp @ 1200lbs. Pops is deep into the 8s. Yer going to need a lot more than what you got just so people will think your racing him. Much less having a chance to win. Good luck!

 

[Cope]

Yeah but I dont think Hes gonna hook and hes got a lot of drag/wind resistance.

Im banking on him just making tire smoke, My other hope is his balls fall off...

;)

Thanks!

 

[bOb shingler]

I nice set of light weight forged flat tops and to run with pops you better throw about a 500 shot on it, you just don't have the cam to handle him.

 

[moper]

150 shot? That should only be the 1st stage if you want to do anything serious. And the car better be ultra light. No clue how good your heads are, but you'll have to push a lot of gas through it to make real power on them.

 

[Cope]

My car 1971 Dart will be going on a major diet..
Everything is coming out of the car, all the interior sheet metal (floor, firewall, door pannels) will be replaced with aluminum.

I have built motors just not one that runs on the bottle.
What SCR should I be shooting for?

I just bought a 950 CFM Profuel carb today.

Jezum Crow, 500 shot? I dont want my pistions to be outside the block..

Thanks again for all your time and advice.

Dave, I look forward to maybe lining up with the T next to ya! I know you gonna blow me out the water but if nothing else it would be fun to meet ya and see your car run.

 

[moper]

Generally you build a motor "for nitrous" if you're going to spray it more. Otherwise pretty much any performance parts will work, just watch the tuning and fuel delivery system. Any forged pistons will live at 100-150hp and you can tune for any compression ratio at that level. So any compression you feel comfy with in terms of getting fuel. Under 300hp isn't a big deal on most stock stuff as long as the tune is right and there's enough fuel volume for everything.
You won't be able to beat your dad's car with it though. Not if he's got what you say. Traction or no. To get a similar power to weight ratio you'll have to make over 1700hp and that's assuming the car with you and the cage, and an iron headed RB get down to 3200lbs. Even given BB Mopar head choices, you'll still need a new block, top of the line race heads & top end, and probably two stages of gas to reach that - or some big turbos.

 

[hangn0ut]

Yeah,cool. I want to make it to the runway drags. Who knows? The bantam would fit right in. I was supposed to be heading up to your area real soon. To pick up my cousins 64 Chevy Nova. But some lowlifes broke into the garage and stole it. So if anybody tries to sell ya some parts all quiet like.....

 

[Oldmanmopar]

My son does alot of machine work on different classes of motors. I know Clearances are most important and are all different depending on what the motor will be used with /for.
Super charger,
pro charger,
Turbo charge.
NOS.
Methanol,
Nitro.
Diesel.

And it varies from, aluminum to cast iron to steel. Don't for get ., Oval track , drag, street, Pull, industrial , twin engine Milatary , Air / liquid cooled.

They spray weld in pan rails and main bearing saddles for strength. Cut the port pockets and guide out of heads to change guide location

They build alot of motors some one of one from all over the world.


He told me Block strength., balance, Clearance , and cleanliness is what they consentrate on, Everything is bagged when its complete

Just some heads up for ya. its not only parts that make a motor. Its the machinist and the builder. Anything can be brought to life but! How long will it live? Under Abuse!!!

 

[Abodybomber]

My son does alot of machine work on different classes of motors. I know Clearances are most important and are all different depending on what the motor will be used with /for.
Super charger,
pro charger,
Turbo charge.
NOS.
Methanol,
Nitro.
Diesel.

And it varies from, aluminum to cast iron to steel. Don't for get ., Oval track , drag, street, Pull, industrial , twin engine Milatary , Air / liquid cooled.

They spray weld in pan rails and main bearing saddles for strength. Cut the port pockets and guide out of heads to change guide location

They build alot of motors some one of one from all over the world.


He told me Block strength., balance, Clearance , and cleanliness is what the consentrate on, Everything is bagged when its complete

Just some heads up for ya. its not only parts that make a motor. Its the machinist and the builder.

There's the real basics, some newbie engine students don't realize. It does sound really basic, amazing how some are never taught.

 

[Cope]

after asking some questions on the main page Im looking at these pistions.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-ic9953-030

I get that my car wont ever get gown to pops weight but F it. im gonna try and win..

These should give me .020 decking if needed, ( This block has never been worked besided the .030 bore) and will they hold up to the bottle?

Thanks for all your time and advice.
I will gap the rings according to NO2.

 

[Cope]

Before the over bore mag Flux and pressure test...
I was surprised she cleaned up at .030 over..

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Don't look that clean in the picture

 

[Cope]

Thats the before pic.

The finish bores just look like finish bores. (you sayin that bore aint fit for pistions? cuz I took a sledge and pushed em in..)

any thoughts on those pistions?

10-4 on the low life's,.. I doubt ill hear but if I do, all I ask is bail out money.. (a friend picks you up from jail, a GOOD friend will be sitting next to ya!, something tells me youd be sitting next to me in this case)

 

[bOb shingler]

I think you should have waited to get it over bored until you got the pistons. plus way not go +.060" over. more cubic inches and higher compression. you'll need it to catch pops.

 

[mguner]

Sounds like some B-1 parts are in order....

 

[Cope]

I wanted to get it bored ASAP as the guy I bought it from said if it dont clean up he would give me another block.

What are B-1 parts?

 

[mguner]

Some of these have been ported to flow around 500 CFM on the intake side...

 

[laj340]

Stroke it...i have a nitros built 419 motor/trans torque coverter nitros built to...been there done that....only street. have fun....nos in my cornflakes every day.....i DONT LEAVE HOME without it....oh have fun ....hahaha sorry it really is a cheap thrill.UP your cam and nitro it 2...me i try to blow my motor every time im out...90 percent wont ...i have fun u only live once....i do anyway. bla bla bla
love the cold march weather...had the thing out twice...rear float needs up a little..ill fix it. mine is only a small block. all steel car.NEW MOTOR LAE419 you need a 1500lb car at least...good luck.been there 2 lol.CHEVY CARS.My first mopar build ,ground up..i really like the mopar peeps on here....

 

[hangn0ut]

You said wind resistance. pops have a big T bucket windshield? That made me laugh. waaay back when i started with the bantam i made a pass at lacr. as i picked up speed the car started feeling funny. the back end was all floating like. yeah, the chute fell out right off the line. went a 10.8 at about 90 mph dragging the chute all the way...

 

[Cope]

Now thats funny!
No the windshield is about 5" in the center, The car has a big chop on it.
I was thinking more of him havimg no hood, fenders or roof but I guess it aint as bad as dragging the laundry down the track... Finaly making some progress on his car. Got the new 9" for it, Started putting pistions in yesterday. got the trunk floor and fire wall all framed in and strated beadrolling pannels. just waiting on more aluminum sheets to show up so I can finish the trunk and then Im gonna cut all the orignal floor bracing out and start panneling the cabin. Im gonna cut the interior door skins out and any extra bracing.
I gotta say im a bit nervous about breaking in the new motor with the mechanical injection. I kinda wish I had a 4 barrel manifold to break in with...

Thanks again!

 

[hangn0ut]

Heres one way to do it. first,you know the pumps good right?is it turning the right way for how its mounted? you can take the cover off to be sure.most pumps you can reverse the flow simply by reversing the cover. if you can,dismount the pump leaving the lines hooked up. disconnect the lines from the eight nozzles. fuel shutoff open, hold the barrel valve wide open. use a drill and spin the pump till you see fuel come out the lines.put it back together and start it. should not need a prime,maybe just a little bit. do not crack the throttle as soon as it fires bring your rpm up. check for leaks.

 

[Cope]

I do not know the pumps good, or its direction of flow.
I figured its a gear drive pump so just opening it up should tell me if its good bad or flowing the wrong way.

i plan on opening up the entire system before I fire it and inspecting everything/cleaning and replacing all rubber.

How would I bring up RPM with out cracking the throttle? (Twist the dizzy?)

you got some very nice stuff... I cant thank you enough for your help.

what colour is your dart? Is that T9 Bronze? I realy like that colour.
Pops is in a paint and body class and I been looking at colours for my car. (long way off..)

If theres anything I can ever do for ya, just holler....

 

[hangn0ut]

What i meant is dont touch the throttle until it starts as is often done with a carb on a motor. opening the throttle while cranking it over can easily flood it. injected motor should fire and run at its normal idle immediately. does this motor have flat tappet cam? i thuoght you were worried about breaking in the cam.

 

[hangn0ut]

I suggest you put new o-rings in your barrel valve and fuel shutoff. good vibrations. is a good place to get em. mark the throttle arm on the barrel valve so it goes back together exactly as it was. very important! My dad picked out the color for the dart. probably just flipped open the paint book and said that color pointing with his finger. lol.