62 Valiant 200 / 170 cuin /6 - Odd smell - then dead battery

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OK
Mattax said:
If the problem is in the wiring or connections from the ballast resistor, then jumping from the run side to the regulator'd IGN terminal should fix that and regulate!
View attachment 1716090347
orange arrows illustrate current flow with approximate amperage.
Click to expand...
...I also measured the regulator resistance from ign to field poles and found the regulator has an open ...I have another regulator that shows a resisitance value other than infinity...
 
Mattax said:
View attachment 1716090345

It could be done like this with the wires connected. Or just carefully jumper blue and green the wires together. Either way don't let the bare metal contact ground.
View attachment 1716090342
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When I jumper this way

1684254407952.png
it stalls...
 
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Mattax said:
Too many things jumped at once.
1. Jumper just the regulator.
2. Then jumper ignition run from the ballast to the regultor IGN terminal.
The coil side of the ballast is low voltage when the engine is running. The full power side usually is the junction of two blue wires, or a blue with white striped blue. '62 could be different but I'm pretty sure I checked that in the factory diagram.
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Ran new wire from alt field to reg...no change
 
gsoco said:
When I jumper this way

View attachment 1716090581it stalls...
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Lets just focus on this.
A. Why would it stall?











Most likely the power found a short to ground.
Electrictiy isn't going to flow through a resistor and coil when there is an easier path.

B. Since there are a few ways that could happen, eliminate the regulator.
1684276713131.png


If it keeps running, then its something to do with the regulator.
 
gsoco said:
...I also measured the regulator resistance from ign to field poles and found the regulator has an open ...I have another regulator that shows a resisitance value other than infinity...
Click to expand...
I can't help with a solid state VR. And if its this one, I don't have one like it to check.
1684277598813.png


IF it acted exactly like a points type then it would show very low resistance from ign to field.
But I don't know if with the transistorized one whether the switch is normally closed.
 
gsoco said:
Alligator clip on the field post of the regulator to the 2 wire ballast resistor post
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Did something change since you posted this photo?
I see 2 wires junctioned at each end of the ballast resistor.
1684334380676.png
 
Mattax said:
B. Since there are a few ways that could happen, eliminate the regulator.
View attachment 1716090716

If it keeps running, then its something to do with the regulator.
Click to expand...

Can also work from the other direction using the test where the engine ran and the alternator produced power. As long as its one change at a time.

gsoco said:
1684188113987-png.png
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First thing I would do is repeat the above.
a. Measure the voltage at each end of the ballast resistor.
That's going to reveal which end is getting supplied power with the key in run.
Tell is what the measurements are.
b. If the jumper's aligator clip is on the side connecting direct to the coil as shown in your markup, move that alligator clip to the other side of the resistor. (It can be done with the engine running although it will likely spark ).
Measure the voltage on both ballast resistor terminals.
c. Finally, if its alternator is still producing power and the engine is running, disconnect the jumper from the regulator's field terminal and connect the aligator clip to the regulator's IGN terminal.

Now, between the previous test bypassing just the regulator, and these teste of the wiring all of the possibilites have been covered.
 
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OP needs to take a step back.

IDENTIFY the circuits tied to the "ignition run" (IGN1) line. IS there a heavy load causing a heavy draw? A short? Or is it some other problem, like ?? bad coil, who knows.

Stop micro analyzing the charging system. You evidently have a older grounded field alternator (one field wire) This is a SIMPLE circuit

Look up in the SERVICE MANUAL. Perform a ROTOR CURRENT DRAW for the alternator, even if estimate. In other words jumper power into the field terminal, measure current draw. Is it somewhere in reason? Start the car and see if it charges, and with RPM, charges full output. Watch the voltage at battery when doing so

If this happens, and not when normally connected to the VR, then replace the VR

VR: MUST BE GROUNDED

IGN terminal to "ignition run" IGN1 circuit, the F terminal to the field. IT DOES NOT get any simpler

CAVEAT!!! It is a VERY common problem for VOLTAGE DROP in the ignition circuit to DROP voltage to the VR, causing it to OVERcharge!!!

The car/ engine should run JUST FINE for HOURS with the VR disconnected. Does it? Does the problem you are having go away? No? Then the alternator VR is not the cause of the immediate problem
 
What I am saying here, is don't get yourself so tied up over some (possibly) unrelated detail, that you cannot see the trees for the forest. (Yes, I know that is reversed from convention)
 
67Dart273 said:
What I am saying here, is don't get yourself so tied up over some (possibly) unrelated detail, that you cannot see the trees for the forest. (Yes, I know that is reversed from convention)
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OK...I AM HAPPY TO RESET AND TRY THIS...THANKS TO ALL FOR ADVICE AND HELP!.
 
gsoco said:
IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN LIKE THAT AS FAR AS I CAN REMEMBER...
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OK. When you wrote "two wire" side of the ballast resistor, I though maybe something had changed.
Both sides have two wires - that's the most common way Chrysler wired them.
 
67Dart273 said:
The car/ engine should run JUST FINE for HOURS with the VR disconnected. Does it?
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He jumpered the VR with the wires still attached to the VR and the engine stalled.
I suggested he repeat that with the wires removed from the VR terminals.
 
Mattax said:
He jumpered the VR with the wires still attached to the VR and the engine stalled.
I suggested he repeat that with the wires removed from the VR terminals.
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If the battery is low, and the idle is low, it is possible for the full load of the alternator to stall the engine, with nothing being wrong. If I full field the alternator on my car, with a low battery, the rpm will drop by about 200 rpm. But it is also possible he shorted the ign circuit when hooking up the jumpers.
 
He posted the mark up below by which he proved the alternator works.
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Between this and the engine stalling, it seemed likely there is a short in the regulator or wiring.
Other opinions welcome.
 
If you decide to reinstall an ammeter, it can helpful in spotting problems.
Especially with no fusible link, the ammeter will give you a chance to see it indicating a short (high discharge).
It also might indicate discharge when the key is off but something is draining the battery. (might not be observable on the gage if the drain is small)
The voltmeter is also useful, but can't show things like that.
Having both is fine.
 
Mattax said:
So it seems the problem is with that regulator.
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If you have a multimeter that can measure up to 10 amps, it would not hurt to do the field current draw test that @67Dart273 mentioned.
A possible reason for 2 or 3 regulators to fail is an alternator with a high current draw.
 
Field draw test with alternator on the car.
First make sure there isn't a short to ground.
Then loosen the alternator so you can turn the pulley by hand.
Using a meter that can measure a few amps, set it to the 10 amps scale and alligator clip it like this.
Be super careful not to let either clip touch ground.
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Check the battery voltage during the test if you have a second meter. If not, measure before or after.

When turning the pulley by hand the current draw should be between 2.3 and 2.7 amps.
That's from a 12/61 tech pamphlet. Alternator and Cranking Motor (Session 169) from the Master Technician's Service Conference
 
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