65 Valiant swap 273 to a 360

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AND... Did you know???
Two more items here. It is easy peasy to swap an A-bdy 727 tail housing and output shaft onto a B/C/E/truck/van 727.
Yes, you MAY have to massage to floor and/or firewall pinch weld a bit to make it fit, but it will. Imperial Services makes, or at least did make, a cable kit to adapt modern lever shift 904/727's to the earlier pushbutton, and I believe console shift, cable controls. Not inexpensive...

NOW, the pièce de ré·sis·tance... I'm not positively sure about the '65 A-bdy 904, but it was still cable shift, SO, I think it does apply here... Definitely up through '64, you could push / pull start a Mopar with a 904 trans, because the pump is in the rear of the trans, not on the front like newer versions. In other words, if you were turning the wheels, then you were turning the pump. If it is in gear, then with enough speed (pump pressure), it will spin the crank like popping the clutch on a manual trans car. I have seen it done, and if you search YouTube, there are a couple of demos / examples shown there.

Mike (already dying in the heat) in FL
(edited for spelling)
 
Decided to go with the 727 rather than the 904. So I decided to do the whole swap in the next couple weeks. (engine, trans, and 8 3/4 A body rear end) Still trying to locate a few parts. Used if possible since I'm on a tight budget. Shifter, headers, driveshaft with 727 slip yolk, (not sure of the spline count) I know I'll need to have it shortened. Also not sure of the u-joints I'll need so I'm sure you will be getting more questions! I need to figure out how to post photos. Thanks Guys for all the help! Litz
 
Litz said:
Decided to go with the 727 rather than the 904. So I decided to do the whole swap in the next couple weeks. (engine, trans, and 8 3/4 A body rear end) Still trying to locate a few parts. Used if possible since I'm on a tight budget. Shifter, headers, driveshaft with 727 slip yolk, (not sure of the spline count) I know I'll need to have it shortened. Also not sure of the u-joints I'll need so I'm sure you will be getting more questions! I need to figure out how to post photos. Thanks Guys for all the help! Litz
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I have a B&M Star Shifter if you are interested. It came out of my '65 Barracuda, along with the 340 and 727 that I put in there in 1977. Yep, I beat on the pinch weld a little--and it was still tight! I might still have the driveshaft too. Of course, I also have the 340 and 727, but you don't need that!
 
65cuda340 said:
I have a B&M Star Shifter if you are interested. It came out of my '65 Barracuda, along with the 340 and 727 that I put in there in 1977. Yep, I beat on the pinch weld a little--and it was still tight! I might still have the driveshaft too. Of course, I also have the 340 and 727, but you don't need that!
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Thanks for the reply. I'm interested in the shifter, and driveshaft but it would probably cost a fortune to ship the driveshaft? Let me know what you think? Interested in the shifter for sure. Thanks, Litz
 
The shifter and driveshaft are both at Hot Rod Chassis and Cycle in Chicago, along with everything else they pulled out of the car. I will check on shipping for both, but as you mentioned, shipping for the driveshaft will probably be high. However, with that in mind, I really don't need to get much for the driveshaft, and I know they are ready to get my old stuff out of their shop. How does $20 sound?
The small T-handle on the shifter that is used to unlock from Park position, and also to put the shifter into "bang-shift" mode broke years ago, and due to laziness I just replaced it with a cotter pin. However, I see that B&M is now selling an aluminum replacement for this, which tells me that they knew all along that the plastic version was a mistake. I think the aluminum replacement is about $30, so you would need to figure that into your purchasing decision. I will take $40 for the shifter, including the linkage and the mini-console that came with it. I will get back to you on shipping costs for the shifter and driveshaft.
 
65cuda340 said:
The shifter and driveshaft are both at Hot Rod Chassis and Cycle in Chicago, along with everything else they pulled out of the car. I will check on shipping for both, but as you mentioned, shipping for the driveshaft will probably be high. However, with that in mind, I really don't need to get much for the driveshaft, and I know they are ready to get my old stuff out of their shop. How does $20 sound?
The small T-handle on the shifter that is used to unlock from Park position, and also to put the shifter into "bang-shift" mode broke years ago, and due to laziness I just replaced it with a cotter pin. However, I see that B&M is now selling an aluminum replacement for this, which tells me that they knew all along that the plastic version was a mistake. I think the aluminum replacement is about $30, so you would need to figure that into your purchasing decision. I will take $40 for the shifter, including the linkage and the mini-console that came with it. I will get back to you on shipping costs for the shifter and driveshaft.
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That sounds good. Let me know when you get a total. Thanks for the reply, Litz
 
I bought the adapter ring from a member here for $20 (Charlie_S). If you decide you need a shorty 727, I have one for a 64-65 w/ cable-shift and output flange (for ball & trunion driveshaft). Just bought as a spare, but will probably never use since I don't want to beat my tranny tunnel and 904 is more efficient. Best to switch to the early cast-iron water pump. I put the alum water pump on my 65 273 and its 1" greater thickness caused problems w/ pulleys and radiator clearance. You can keep your exiting timing cover (if the pump inlet doesn't bump the timing mark bump). You just need to bolt an early timing tab on the other side, and install the early damper or else put a new mark on yours. But, when I removed my timing cover, I found it corroded almost all the way thru, which would have leaked coolant into the crankcase, so good idea to inspect. You will need to dent the 360 oil pan for steering linkage clearance at the extreme left turn. An early 273 pan has that dent-in, but won't fit a 360 block (larger rear bulge). And the 340/360 motor brackets mentioned (1 side).
 
Is there a difference in 360 water pumps? The 360 that I'm using came out of a motor home and the snout is longer than the one on the 273. I'm guessing that a car water pump would be different? If that is the case what year/model car would be the best one to order? The Valiant doesn't have AC, or power steering if that makes a difference. Too bad the 273 timing chain cover and water pump won't swap onto the 360! Thanks, Litz
 
Oldschoolcuda said:
This is all great info. As usual from FABO.
As stated before in above posts. If your 273 trans is push button unit the early 273 converter will not mate up to the 360 crank correctly without snout modification or a pat blais or other adapter for snout.
Sounds like with snout adapter and balance plate you will be good to go if using early trans, wh
Litz said:
That sounds good. Let me know when you get a total. Thanks for the reply, Litz
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Litz said:
That sounds good. Let me know when you get a total. Thanks for the reply, Litz
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65cuda340 said:
I have a B&M Star Shifter if you are interested. It came out of my '65 Barracuda, along with the 340 and 727 that I put in there in 1977. Yep, I beat on the pinch weld a little--and it was still tight! I might still have the driveshaft too. Of course, I also have the 340 and 727, but you don't need that!
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I wanted to check back with you to see if you had a chance to get a total on the drive shaft, and shifter. Even with shipping costs it might be a good alternative to having my old ball and trunion re-worked for the 727 if that's even possible.
 
Litz said:
I wanted to check back with you to see if you had a chance to get a total on the drive shaft, and shifter. Even with shipping costs it might be a good alternative to having my old ball and trunion re-worked for the 727 if that's even possible.
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Sorry--I am still waiting to hear back from the shop where the parts are to see if they still have the driveshaft. Moving my old parts obviously isn't their top priority! It's frustrating; wish I would have taken everything off before I sent the car there. I will bug them tomorrow--I apologize for the delay. I did check on shipping, but left the numbers at the office today, so I guess I'm not doing much better.
 
I meant to mention that you might not even need to shorten the driveshaft (if they still have it at the shop!) The length was just right for my '65 with the 789 8.75 rear and the 727.
I did find a couple of other shafts out in the garage, but neither of them have the trans yoke attached. One is 3 inch diameter and 48-7/8" from center to center of u-joints, and the other is 2-1/2" and 51-5/8".
20170501_220010.jpg
 
65cuda340 said:
I meant to mention that you might not even need to shorten the driveshaft (if they still have it at the shop!) The length was just right for my '65 with the 789 8.75 rear and the 727.
I did find a couple of other shafts out in the garage, but neither of them have the trans yoke attached. One is 3 inch diameter and 48-7/8" from center to center of u-joints, and the other is 2-1/2" and 51-5/8". View attachment 1715043479
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Yeah, I figured if the driveshaft was out of a 65 Cuda TF with an 8.75 with any luck it would be a bolt in deal for my 65 Valiant. Thanks for the reply and I hope you can find the driveshaft. Thanks for the reply and I hope to hear from you with good news! lol Litz
 
Litz said:
Is there a difference in 360 water pumps? ... Too bad the 273 timing chain cover and water pump won't swap onto the 360! Thanks, Litz
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The water pump bolts to the timing cover, not the block, though some bolts do pass all the way thru into the block as I recall. There are ~4 different timing covers for LA engines and I think all will bolt to any LA engine (I posted photos years ago). Indeed, the 5.2/5.9L Magnum timing covers may fit, but no need to go there. I don't think motor-home water pumps are any different than cars. I think there are only 2 types, the steel one (~1970 down) and the aluminum one. The lower radiator hose is on different sides. The aluminum one puts the fan connection ~1" further out, which causes issues w/ pulleys and radiator. You also need to consider the crankshaft damper since I recall thicknesses vary between 273 and 360. Also, read up on crank balancing. I recall most/all 360's had cast cranks and were externally balanced via the damper, so might not be able to swap. The 273 dampers also had 1 offset pulley hole. Even staying w/ the same engine and year, pulleys varied w/ accessories so can always take finagling.
 
Litz said:
Yeah, I figured if the driveshaft was out of a 65 Cuda TF with an 8.75 with any luck it would be a bolt in deal for my 65 Valiant. Thanks for the reply and I hope you can find the driveshaft. Thanks for the reply and I hope to hear from you with good news! lol Litz
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Well, I have bad news all around. They sold my driveshaft and had not told me. I had checked on shipping for the shifter yesterday via FedEx because UPS requires so much detail to provide a quote, and the lowest FedEx rate estimate was almost $70. That would probably go down some with more detailed info, but I doubt if it would be worth it to you. I can check UPS's rate, but they won't even provide an estimate without knowing all the details--name, exact address, phone number of recipient, etc. I didn't realize that would be required, but I guess it makes sense, since they need to know where they are going. Sorry for all the bad news; let me know if you want to proceed with the shifter.
 
65cuda340 said:
Well, I have bad news all around. They sold my driveshaft and had not told me. I had checked on shipping for the shifter yesterday via FedEx because UPS requires so much detail to provide a quote, and the lowest FedEx rate estimate was almost $70. That would probably go down some with more detailed info, but I doubt if it would be worth it to you. I can check UPS's rate, but they won't even provide an estimate without knowing all the details--name, exact address, phone number of recipient, etc. I didn't realize that would be required, but I guess it makes sense, since they need to know where they are going. Sorry for all the bad news; let me know if you want to proceed with the shifter.
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Too bad about the driveshaft. If it's not much trouble could you check on the cost of shipping the shifter. My zip is 93065 Simi Valley, Ca. Thanks again, Litz
 
Litz said:
Too bad about the driveshaft. If it's not much trouble could you check on the cost of shipping the shifter. My zip is 93065 Simi Valley, Ca. Thanks again, Litz
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I will check with UPS, but they want your name, address, and phone number; can you send me a PM with that info?
 
Ha! I don't either! Let me see if I can figure it out; I think it is actually called a private conversation on this site. I have been involved in several of those, but I have never initiated one.
 
Aha! I found it! I cut and pasted the instructions below:

I thought I would take this chance to explain how PMs now work.

First, PMs are now called "Conversations" -

How to send someone a private message
There are 2 ways to send another member a PM.

First, if you hover over INBOX on the top right, there will be a link to "Start a New Conversation", which if you click, brings you to a Message screen where you can name the member you want to have a private conversation with and write the first message to that person.

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The second way, is from a post. If you click the user's name that you want to have a private conversation with, a panel comes up that includes a link to "Start a Conversation"
with that person.

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Easy and Simple.
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How to Delete Conversations
You don't actually delete conversations, you "Leave" them.

There are 2 ways to do this.
First way, from your list of conversations, simply click the checkbox of whichever conversations you want to leave. You can select multiple conversations if you like.

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A box will come up that gives you several options where you can leave the conversations, mark them unread, mark them read, etc.

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You can also leave a conversation right from the conversation itself by clicking the link on the top right of the conversation.

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How conversations are counted and how many you can have:
Members can have 15 conversations at any given time. Once you 'leave' a conversation, its no longer in your mailbox and is no longer counted on your total.

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