73 Dart Swinger - Need advice!!!!!!!!

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prican_2000

prican_2000

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So I have an Automatic 73 Swinger with the Slant Six - super clean car besides the interior, super soft/floaty suspension and rear end needing some attention but its not a bad running car. However, I can never leave well enough alone - it’s a curse, I know and I admit my vice, with that said - I want to go V8 and EFI with this car and I have been reading thru FABO and the plethora of data and its like trying to drink out of a Fire-hose = Information Overload but most of the posts are for "Early" A-bodies so a lot of that info does not apply. So I decided to start my own thread where I will ask questions and track my progress for all to see.

Here are my plans so far:

Engine Swap: V8 EFI
Trans: Auto
Rear End: Ford Explorer LSD Rear with either 3.73 or 4.10 gears
Suspension: PST Torsion bars
Brakes: Already been converted to Front Disc Brakes with Big Bolts and all new S.S. Brakes lines throughout by previous owner.
Interior: bought a Dash cap, got a new Grant 3 spoke Steering wheel, and picked up a set of Neon SRT seats - all waiting to get installed.
Exterior: would love to find a dual scoop hood - like the 340 Darts had, Add the Flip Cap Fuel, and a new set of wheels

Am I missing something else?????

Goal is to have a car that I can jump in it at any time (reliable), turn the key and go. No worries of adjusting carbs and can cruise on the hwy without it screaming but have a good street appeal while laying down some rubber.

So here are my questions: (keep in mind that this will have to be as financially economical as possible and I am "NOT" a mechanic by trade but I am not afraid to get my hands dirty especially if I can see it done before with threads and Pics or Videos)

1. What are my options for a fun to drive/cruise/drag (on occasion) EFI V8? I don’t think I can afford to go V8 "AND" swap the K-Member - so I just want to add the extra 2 cyl and have fun. Would love to add a New Gen 5.7 or even 6.1 but I don’t know if its worth it over a Magnum 5.9. but I've had a 5.7 and a 6.1 and I know their potential even with just a simple Cam swap. However, "ANYTHING" is better than the slant 6. Lol

2. What are my options for Transmissions to back up the above suggested V8? I don’t want to cut into the car (massaging with a BFH is perfectly fine) so it would need to fit in the stock trans tunnel and I am perfectly fine with it being an Auto as long as I can go cruising on the HWY for long distances (if I chose to) and it can be a sweet light to light rubber smoking beast.

3. I keep hearing of Biscuit and Spool mount types - how can I tell which one the car has? I think that is important information when buying motor mounts???

4. Fuel - keep the stock tank and add "external" powered pumps etc?

5. What am I not considering that I should start thinking about?

6. Budget: Don't really have a budget as I have never done this before but if I was to set a price on getting it all done - lets say $3,000 (just for the motor/trans).

Thanks for your input/time and THANK YOU for such a Great Forum as I said there is a PLETHORA of information on here and I have met some really good people in the small amount of time that I've been here.
 
Advice: pick one thing, ask about that, then do that. When done with that, pick the next that, and focus on that.
 
I have a bit less than that into a 5.9 Magnum motor, custom cam, timing set, oil pump, pan, oil pickup, EQ Magnum heads, and and TF2 kitted 42RH overdrive.
You need to be willing to do most of the labor though.
 
Define your budget and goals further. If you are wanting $3000 to be the budget for the entire swap including fuel injection, buy a running Ram, Dakota, or full size van with the lowest mileage 5.9 Magnum you can find, and don't spend more than $1500 on it. Use the complete engine, parts of the fuel rail, stock injectors, and engine wiring harness. Since you don't want to cut the car at all, get a small block A904 trans and do the rebuild or jave it done, and use smaller rear axle ratio, like 3.55 for freeway cruising. Schumacher makes the swap mounts you need to adapt into your existing K-frame. The rest is just details. The higher the budget, the better the upgrades. No overdrive automatic will fit in there without cutting at least the torsion bar crossmember, unless you add a Gearvendors to the 904 trans.
 
Skinny tires,An LSD,And a turbo,done.
You got a $12,000 dream and a $3000 budget.OOps, that's 12000 Can, lol, about $9000USd.
And some of your goals are unrealistic;
Like 4.10s and hiway cruising. Like Hi-way cruising and lite to lite rubber.
Double OOps 3Gs for just the engine/trans, my bad, I missed that... so I better start over...................

For your stated goals, I's say:you need either
A) a big engine to pull a hiway gear, and enough stall to break traction,or
B) a smaller V8, with plenty of low rpm torque, an overdrive and whatever gear lol., or
C) some form of supercharging ....... on the slanty, or on a junkyard teener. These projects have a way of stretching time.
D) 360LAs/5.9s are easy to make power with. This does not mean cheap. But a Magnum already has a better Stock compression ratio. This doesn't mean much, if the pistons are gonna be replaced.

Trailbeast has the skinny. Clone his program and you will be as happy as he is.
EFI is icing.
If you wanna go stickshift, you can clone mine.
If you value fuel mileage, there are a couple of happy 273 owners here, but um you're gonna have to pick either/or...hiway or burning rubber.
A 318 needs to be biased one way or the other
A 360 with a small cam, can easily do all three. Sometimes/often/almost usually, without an overdrive.
 
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TrailBeast said:
I have a bit less than that into a 5.9 Magnum motor, custom cam, timing set, oil pump, pan, oil pickup, EQ Magnum heads, and and TF2 kitted 42RH overdrive.
You need to be willing to do most of the labor though.
Click to expand...

So glad you posted as I have been following a few of your threads with your build and I was seriously leaning that way on my build also. I have no problem with doing the work, I'm just not a mechanic by trade so I need specifics.

Bobzilla said:
Define your budget and goals further. If you are wanting $3000 to be the budget for the entire swap including fuel injection, buy a running Ram, Dakota, or full size van with the lowest mileage 5.9 Magnum you can find, and don't spend more than $1500 on it. Use the complete engine, parts of the fuel rail, stock injectors, and engine wiring harness. Since you don't want to cut the car at all, get a small block A904 trans and do the rebuild or jave it done, and use smaller rear axle ratio, like 3.55 for freeway cruising. Schumacher makes the swap mounts you need to adapt into your existing K-frame. The rest is just details. The higher the budget, the better the upgrades. No overdrive automatic will fit in there without cutting at least the torsion bar crossmember, unless you add a Gearvendors to the 904 trans.
Click to expand...

Great Advice - Thank You! with that said are there different A904 Transmissions? Big Block "AND" Small block? I was also considering going with an A500 trans for the benefit of the OD for Highway cruising - Thoughts on this????

AJ/FormS said:
Trailbeast has the skinny. Clone his program and you will be as happy as he is.
EFI is icing.
If you wanna go stickshift, you can clone mine.
If you value fuel mileage, there are a couple of happy 273 owners here, but um you're gonna have to pick either or...hiway or rubber.
A 318 needs to be biased one way or the other
A 360 with a small cam, can easily do all three. Sometimes/often/almost usually, without an overdrive.
Click to expand...

Thanks AJ - I will look up your build in case I do decide to cut up the car and go stickshift but like you said I think I will be very happy duplicating Trailbeast's set-up.

72Dart6pack said:
LS motor & a powerglide. Keep it simple.
Click to expand...

Ohhhhhh I've been thinking about this also - the cheapest way to get it done and its on my mind but my friends have told me "NOT" to basterdize the car......LOL! but I'm still thinking of it. WINK!

THANKS TO ALL WHO POSTED!!!!
I think I have a lead on a Ford Explorer 8.8 LSD Rear with 3.73 gears that I should be picking up Saturday morning. I guess I will start there in the "performance" enhancing/modding process. I will keep this thread updated.
 
3K for a junk yard engine & trans with a few bolt on parts would be OK. The engine mounts can be obtained from Schumacher creative services. They have the spool style mounts. The biscuits are sandwich looking. The spool is round at the bottom.

After the engine trans package deal, the engine mods are easy picks.
Carb, cam, intake, headers, distributor. An electric fuel pump (Edelbrock makes a low psi unit for carbs, ez wire in.) for the Magnum engines or convert the the older set up from the timing cover forward. Also a cam nose extension from Hughesengines. To work with a Magnum cam. A switch to a LA cam is better IMO. Be careful of the lift!

Worry about heads last. You can closely copy the MoPar 360/380 hp engine with a Comp cam that is very close to the MP cam. These engines use the stock head (with the cams correctly matching valve springs) and normally produce over 400 hp. The rpm intake will add excellent torque and give back nothing on the big end.
 
Oh, by the way, the above is what I did in my ‘79 Magnum. No cam swap though. I used a Chrysler chrome box for the ignition w/a MP distributor.

After the headers, which I did t include, not know if your going that route, on my Dusters, I used a Jegs or Summit racing exhaust kit @ 2-1/2. The surprise were the mufflers. Quite-ish with a decent roar when your under spirited acceleration. The fit was good that required a little trimming which was worth it. There is a Jegs kit without mufflers so you can use what you want if you so decide.
 
prican_2000 said:
Great Advice - Thank You! with that said are there different A904 Transmissions? Big Block "AND" Small block? I was also considering going with an A500 trans for the benefit of the OD for Highway cruising - Thoughts on this????
Click to expand...

There are no big block 904's or A500's.
There are big and small block 727's and A518's though.
The A518 (46RH) did also come in diesel versions which can handle some real high torque, and pretty much all you have to do with those is swap the governor from a gas motor A518 into it. (they use different calibration)
 
rumblefish360 said:
3K for a junk yard engine & trans with a few bolt on parts would be OK. The engine mounts can be obtained from Schumacher creative services. They have the spool style mounts. The biscuits are sandwich looking. The spool is round at the bottom.

After the engine trans package deal, the engine mods are easy picks.
Carb, cam, intake, headers, distributor. An electric fuel pump (Edelbrock makes a low psi unit for carbs, ez wire in.) for the Magnum engines or convert the the older set up from the timing cover forward. Also a cam nose extension from Hughesengines. To work with a Magnum cam. A switch to a LA cam is better IMO. Be careful of the lift!

Worry about heads last. You can closely copy the MoPar 360/380 hp engine with a Comp cam that is very close to the MP cam. These engines use the stock head (with the cams correctly matching valve springs) and normally produce over 400 hp. The rpm intake will add excellent torque and give back nothing on the big end.
Click to expand...

GREAT INFO!!!! Once again Rumblefish THANK YOU - but this brings me to another question:
would I benefit from getting a V8 K-Frame and removing the /6 K-Frame? from reading through the forum - it seems to me that it would be much easier and companies offer more conversion mounts etc, for the V8 K-Frame - what are your thoughts?

What leads me to this is that I might have a lead on a very low mileage New Gen Hemi 6.1 motor for a great price from a buddy of a buddy so that's on the table but I still have to do more research especially concerning the Gas pedal (DBW) on the new Gen Hemi's, and how to maintain the car as a Column shifter and "NOT" a center console shifter like the new Hemi's. I know that the Police car Hemi's had the Column shifters so that might be my answer to that issue.

TrailBeast said:
There are no big block 904's or A500's.
There are big and small block 727's and A518's though.
The A518 (46RH) did also come in diesel versions which can handle some real high torque, and pretty much all you have to do with those is swap the governor from a gas motor A518 into it. (they use different calibration)
Click to expand...

Trailbeast - Thanks again!!!! that's good information to know. The A500 is sounding better and better!
 
Screw swapping a K frame! Engine swap mounts I used here;
Schumacher Creative Services

There are threads here on how to do a modern HEMI swap into an A body. I have not read them. I only (LMAO) looked at pictures. It is a route I’m Not likely to go down myself.

If you choose this path, I wouldn’t hesitate a second to do it if you can work out all the details you want done. It is an excellent platform to use and build.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Screw swapping a K frame! Engine swap mounts I used here;
Schumacher Creative Services

There are threads here on how to do a modern HEMI swap into an A body. I have not read them. I only (LMAO) looked at pictures. It is a route I’m Not likely to go down myself.

If you choose this path, I wouldn’t hesitate a second to do it if you can work out all the details you want done. It is an excellent platform to use and build.
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been in contact with Mike Schumacher - unfortunately they only make 67-72 A-body 5.7 and 6.1 Hemi mounts - and he confirmed that if I get a V8 K-Frame from a 67-72 then I would be able to use the Schumacher mounts for a New Gen Hemi Swap.

I'm probably asking for too much but I would like a V8 (Magnum or New Gen Hemi) with Fuel Injection and a 4 or 5 Speed Auto trans without having to cut the car up at all and get it done as cheaply as possible. I don't want it to be a Speed Demon (That's a Lie!!! LOL) - but if I could get a reliable 3-400RWHP, I would be SUPER happy. MPG are no concern because it will "NOT" be a daily driver - more of a Weekend Cruiser/Hot Rod.

So with that said I figured if I can get a 6.1 - why not right - since it would be a much better starting point (425HP Platform) to start with?? but then again even if I get the 6.1 for $3K, I could probably have a Magnum up and running for that amount. DAMMIT!!!!!! Decisions Decisions.
 
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Well, first you have to make a plan and decide exactly what engine you want to reside between the fenders and go from there.

While the HEMI is born with higher HP & Tq., you may have a lot of figuring to do and I do not know all the possible hidden expenses. It maybe a lot up front but ten again, costs may balance out to justify one direction or another.

I don’t know what a 5.7 costs in your area or how much more the 6.1 is, or how much ch more a trans will be with it.

There is a lot to consider. Running the computer? Going carb? What intake will be used? Cost? Carb cost? That is a very variable price tag on the carb alone.

Really, the bottom line is what’s in the wallet, how much work you want to involve yourself with, how much power you want, etc...

The LA route is probably considerably cheaper depending on the HP level/parts used.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Well, first you have to make a plan and decide exactly what engine you want to reside between the fenders and go from there.

While the HEMI is born with higher HP & Tq., you may have a lot of figuring to do and I do not know all the possible hidden expenses. It maybe a lot up front but ten again, costs may balance out to justify one direction or another.

I don’t know what a 5.7 costs in your area or how much more the 6.1 is, or how much ch more a trans will be with it.

There is a lot to consider. Running the computer? Going carb? What intake will be used? Cost? Carb cost? That is a very variable price tag on the carb alone.

Really, the bottom line is what’s in the wallet, how much work you want to involve yourself with, how much power you want, etc...

The LA route is probably considerably cheaper depending on the HP level/parts used.
Click to expand...

I KNOW BROTHER - EASIER SAID THAN DONE!

I just wish I would find someone local with a screaming good deal - that would say hey I have this ready to drop in Magnum because I am moving up to a New Gen Hemi - then I can just Plug n Play and it would be a No-Brainer. LOL!!!!!

Pretty sure that will happen sooner or later - I just gotta be patient. but for the time being like you said I need to decide which route I am gonna take and stick with it so I can start collecting parts as I don't have as deep pockets as I wish/think I have.
 
Shallow pockets? I know the feeling! Delt with that for the most part of my life. But/sell/trade! Will work for cash but would rather parts!

Since money is tight, I suggest a 5.9 Magnum. get it with the flywheel/flexplate as to use with a regular zero balnced converter. Sell off what is not needed to recoup. Roll it over into the above parts I mentioned.

Edelbrock RPM intake, carb, cam, headers, distributor.

Inexpensive Summit headers. 1973 DODGE DART Summit Racing® Headers

You can finish the exhaust up with inexpensive mufflers, straight pipe & hangers from the speed house's.
Muffler example; Summit Racing® 2-Chamber Performance Mufflers SUM-638222
Straight pipe example; Summit Racing® Exhaust Tubing SUM-640025-1
Pipe hanger example; Summit Racing® Universal Exhaust Hangers
Or a kit from stem to stern; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-680144/overview/year/1973/make/dodge/model/dart
The distributor can be a JY unit. (You can go to Pace Performance for a ready to run HP distributor. JUST like the MSD.
The OE distributor. It will take some work to recurve. You can try it as is! A carb can be found here on site inexpensively.
If you keep the cam small, [email protected] & under, you can keep the stock converter. Just remember the Magnum has a 1.6 rocker and not a 1.5 rocker ratio!
Go with the max tire & gear for your needs. (I suggest a max of 4.10's for a light to light bandit and not the hwy.)

Just examples mind you.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Shallow pockets? I know the feeling! Delt with that for the most part of my life. But/sell/trade! Will work for cash but would rather parts!

Since money is tight, I suggest a 5.9 Magnum. get it with the flywheel/flexplate as to use with a regular zero balnced converter. Sell off what is not needed to recoup. Roll it over into the above parts I mentioned.

Edelbrock RPM intake, carb, cam, headers, distributor.

Inexpensive Summit headers. 1973 DODGE DART Summit Racing® Headers

You can finish the exhaust up with inexpensive mufflers, straight pipe & hangers from the speed house's.
Muffler example; Summit Racing® 2-Chamber Performance Mufflers SUM-638222
Straight pipe example; Summit Racing® Exhaust Tubing SUM-640025-1
Pipe hanger example; Summit Racing® Universal Exhaust Hangers
Or a kit from stem to stern; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-680144/overview/year/1973/make/dodge/model/dart
The distributor can be a JY unit. (You can go to Pace Performance for a ready to run HP distributor. JUST like the MSD.
The OE distributor. It will take some work to recurve. You can try it as is! A carb can be found here on site inexpensively.
If you keep the cam small, [email protected] & under, you can keep the stock converter. Just remember the Magnum has a 1.6 rocker and not a 1.5 rocker ratio!
Go with the max tire & gear for your needs. (I suggest a max of 4.10's for a light to light bandit and not the hwy.)

Just examples mind you.
Click to expand...


I LIKE THAT^ !!!

Thank You - that's an awesome recipe to keep in mind.
so in your expertise mind - what does that above recipe cost??? Best Guesstimate is fine.
 
prican_2000 said:
I LIKE THAT^ !!!

Thank You - that's an awesome recipe to keep in mind.
so in your expertise mind - what does that above recipe cost??? Best Guesstimate is fine.
Click to expand...

A lot of it is patience vs cash.
Here's a small list of my junk.
Low miles 1996 5.9 Magnum $500
A500 trans with converter and large joint yoke=$125
Edelbrock intake=$60
Nice Edelbrock 1406=$40
1 5/8 aluminized headers=$200
Roller Cam=$150 shipped with a stock core sent in.

Some from craigslist, some from the pick a part, and some from here.

New EQ CH318B heads with Hughes springs and valve gear=$800 or so.
 
prican_2000 said:
I LIKE THAT^ !!!

Thank You - that's an awesome recipe to keep in mind.
so in your expertise mind - what does that above recipe cost??? Best Guesstimate is fine.
Click to expand...
Now that is the million dollar question because it is a huge and wide variable tha depends on parts purchased, skill level involved as in how much you do yourself vs. having someone do it.

This is also why I went through the trouble of going to Summit racing and looking up those parts to copy and paste in the post so you can see the prices involved with those parts or other one you may like over the listed ones.

Oh! I did forget you’ll need a car oil pan and pick up since almost all Magnum engines are from a truck with the wrong pan for use in cars.

Your going to have to figure it all out yourself.

We have pointed you in the direction and turned on the light. Now it is up to you to figure out what it is you want, what the whole thing will need parts wise and then start in on it.
 
TrailBeast said:
A lot of it is patience vs cash.
Here's a small list of my junk.
Low miles 1996 5.9 Magnum $500
A500 trans with converter and large joint yoke=$125
Edelbrock intake=$60
Nice Edelbrock 1406=$40
1 5/8 aluminized headers=$200
Roller Cam=$150 shipped with a stock core sent in.

Some from craigslist, some from the pick a part, and some from here.

New EQ CH318B heads with Hughes springs and valve gear=$800 or so.
Click to expand...

See that's what I'm talking about - Under $1200 combination right there ^ Sounds GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!

rumblefish360 said:
Now that is the million dollar question because it is a huge and wide variable tha depends on parts purchased, skill level involved as in how much you do yourself vs. having someone do it.

This is also why I went through the trouble of going to Summit racing and looking up those parts to copy and paste in the post so you can see the prices involved with those parts or other one you may like over the listed ones.

Oh! I did forget you’ll need a car oil pan and pick up since almost all Magnum engines are from a truck with the wrong pan for use in cars.

Your going to have to figure it all out yourself.

We have pointed you in the direction and turned on the light. Now it is up to you to figure out what it is you want, what the whole thing will need parts wise and then start in on it.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with you and I appreciate all the help. I just want to make sure that I don't put the cart before the horse (per se) and so I am doing as much research and question asking before I start buying and gathering parts. yesterday I almost had a lead on a 383 that was drop-in ready but the guy was over 200 miles 1 way and someone else put a deposit on it - so I missed out. Maybe for the best.
 
Swapping to a big block was a pain in the wallet. So I’d say, if your going to do a big block, make it a kick *** mill or stay with a hot small block.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Swapping to a big block was a pain in the wallet. So I’d say, if your going to do a big block, make it a kick *** mill or stay with a hot small block.
Click to expand...

My initial search on Car-parts leads me to 5.9's in my area with less than 100K miles for approximately $8-900 and up. I'm hoping to start buying parts (engine, trans, Rear end) and stock them in the garage, enjoy the car and drive it for this season while I save and buy all the parts needed for the swap, then once its hibernation season I can yank the six/904 out and stab the 5.9/A500. Working all through the winter to get it ready for next riding season. Fingers-Crossed.
 
In post #23 you said you don't want to have to cut up the car. Be aware any automatic overdrive won't fit without modifications, the cheapest easiest fit possibly being the A500 that still requires modifications to the torsion bar crossmember. If you don't want any cutting, go GearVendors or give up the overdrive.
 
Hey there, im in southern MD too. Your welcome to come by and check my cars out. If you need help with anything you can pick my brain. I have been a mopar fanatic for nearly 30 years and have owned many A bodies. I currently have a 73 340 dart sport, 73 swinger (cloning to a 72 340) and 74 cuda (cloning to 71 340 six pack, shaker).
I have a 340 with EFI on the test stand you can check out. I went with the MSD Atomic EFI and so far I love it. I saw your car a while back in Bills paint booth and was checking it out. I can say I dont recall seeing a car with that mist green paint before.
 
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