833 hold up to 500hp RB

[Dartnut]

Since you seem to have a hard on for anything I post, I consider ANY diaphragm pressure plate garbage, especially if it has the Centerforce weights on it. Ever try and balance one of those? You can't. You have to take it off, balance everything and then put it back on, so the balance job is off. JUNK.

Also, any system (and that's what you clutch is, a system) that uses over 2200 pounds of static pressure are parts breakers. Any paddle clutch that Ram or anyone else sells is JUNK. Any dual friction disc is a joke.

So put bite to them and you WILL run over parts. If you are a street tire guy then it's a bit different.

For me, junk is junk at any price.

A hard on? lol.
I'll give you credit, if you are running a car in the 9's and 8's even, then you have a lot more knowledge than i do about this finite subject.
I'm more of a 11 second guy that street drives his cars.
I'm out of your league oh guru.
The Centerforce didn't change the balance of my engine one iota.
It grabs and locks good, and is a whole different feeling than the McCloud Borg&Beck setups that i have run in the past.
Good pedal feel and lighter on the leg, as well as a better lock up when you ''get on it'' as opposed to the McCloud set up i ran in the past.
I was apprehensive about trying the Centerforce dual friction clutch package to be honest, but it was given to me by my brother for Christmas, and i decided to give it a chance, and i'm glad i did. I'm usually old school with the Borg&Beck as my first choice.
We're all not pro racers like you, most of us are simple hobbyists that work 9 to 5 and just go out and have some fun here and there with (gasp) less than 1500 H.P.
A question for you, oh mighty one, is how are you doing with the clutch technology and designing that you are certainly involved in with the new Pro Stock and Top fuel cars on the circuit this season? Or is it a secret? Like the brand of clutch you personally use?
And finally, to pick off an old scab, synthetic oil in a STOCK A-833?
It won't work without modifications, so prove me wrong.
P.M. me your phone number, and we'll talk.
I won't go any further on here.
Thanks,
Tom.

 

[yellow rose]

But just so that we're all clear here, you're talking about a drag car that's running 9's. Most of the cars on this site have probably never even seen 6,500 rpm, let alone shift there (or above).

Meaning, the vast majority of people here have absolutely no need for that kind of clutch. I'm not saying you can't run that clutch on the street, you obviously can. And if you dial down the base and use a good amount of counter it probably isn't even a PITA on the street, because on the street you'll be shifting at much lower RPM's and won't have to fight as much of the counter.

It's always about application, and yours is pretty specialized. Not that it's a bad thing to be that specialized or that fast, but most aren't, and that changes the perspective.

I mixed up two different scenarios. I have run this exact clutch both in a race car and my daily driver. Obviously, with different set ups.

I disagree with your premise that the "vast majority" don't need this clutch. The guy who wants to go 100k miles and never touch his stuff might just as well run stock parts. For those of us who are looking for performance, that won't break parts need to change their thinking on clutches and clutch tune up.

It's all in what you expect. It has been since the very early 1980's that I has something that didn't turn more than 6000 rpm's. The engine I'm finishing right now has a shift speed of 7200 rpm and a trap speed of 7500 or so. Obviously, on the street I don't wind it that tight every day. Mashing on it is a different story.

And my wife will drive this set up too, although quite timidly as is her normal. Which is my point. The car I have now is just a stocker (pretty much). I doubt the wife will ever take it past 3000!!! And yet she can drive it.


It's all in your perspective.

 

[yellow rose]

A hard on? lol.
I'll give you credit, if you are running a car in the 9's and 8's even, then you have a lot more knowledge than i do about this finite subject.
I'm more of a 11 second guy that street drives his cars.
I'm out of your league oh guru.
The Centerforce didn't change the balance of my engine one iota.
It grabs and locks good, and is a whole different feeling than the McCloud Borg&Beck setups that i have run in the past.
Good pedal feel and lighter on the leg, as well as a better lock up when you ''get on it'' as opposed to the McCloud set up i ran in the past.
I was apprehensive about trying the Centerforce dual friction clutch package to be honest, but it was given to me by my brother for Christmas, and i decided to give it a chance, and i'm glad i did. I'm usually old school with the Borg&Beck as my first choice.
We're all not pro racers like you, most of us are simple hobbyists that work 9 to 5 and just go out and have some fun here and there with (gasp) less than 1500 H.P.
A question for you, oh mighty one, is how are you doing with the clutch technology and designing that you are certainly involved in with the new Pro Stock and Top fuel cars on the circuit this season? Or is it a secret? Like the brand of clutch you personally use?
And finally, to pick off an old scab, synthetic oil in a STOCK A-833?
It won't work without modifications, so prove me wrong.
P.M. me your phone number, and we'll talk.
I won't go any further on here.
Thanks,
Tom.

Must have hit a nerve.

So did you balance your rotating assembly the way Centerforce says to? Which is to remove the centrifugal weights and then balance. I have. Then I put the weight back on. It was out of balance, and it changed every time I stopped the balancer and then started it again. So yes, your stuff is out of balance, regardless of what Centerforce says. I have talked to them on the phone with a crank on the balancer.

Obviously, you don't pay attention. I said the Borg&Beck/LONG cover. You must have missed that. Not the Borg&Beck cover.

You can be antagonistic or maybe you can learn something. My current car is a high 11 second daily driver. With a sintered iron clutch. I don't break parts. It's really simple.

EDIT: where did I say anything about 1500 hp or ProStock? You embellish things much?

EDIT 2: I have run synthetic gear oil in stock 833's since the early 1980's. They were all stock. Just because YOU can't do something doesn't mean I can't.

 

[Dartnut]

Must have hit a nerve.

So did you balance your rotating assembly the way Centerforce says to? Which is to remove the centrifugal weights and then balance. I have. Then I put the weight back on. It was out of balance, and it changed every time I stopped the balancer and then started it again. So yes, your stuff is out of balance, regardless of what Centerforce says. I have talked to them on the phone with a crank on the balancer.

Obviously, you don't pay attention. I said the Borg&Beck/LONG cover. You must have missed that. Not the Borg&Beck cover.

You can be antagonistic or maybe you can learn something. My current car is a high 11 second daily driver. With a sintered iron clutch. I don't break parts. It's really simple.

EDIT: where did I say anything about 1500 hp or ProStock? You embellish things much?

EDIT 2: I have run synthetic gear oil in stock 833's since the early 1980's. They were all stock. Just because YOU can't do something doesn't mean I can't.

Well, it seems like you hit a ''nerve'' with most of the responders to this thread, not just me.
And i feel that we struck a ''nerve'' with you judging by your harsh responses.
Portraying yourself as a know it all for clutch design and what materials and technology works, and for that matter, what doesn't work on ALL applications makes you a self professed expert on the subject.
Naturally, many would draw the inference that if you have the vast experience that you are portraying on here with your posts, running 9 second stick cars in the past and all, that you would be up to snuff with the higher end racers who run Pro Stock etc. who demand the latest in technology mixed with the experience of a ''been there done that and it didn't work, but i do know what does for every application'' person like you.
FWIW, i still stick by the fact that my engine does not vibrate at over 6,000 rpm with my new Centerforce clutch, so i am certain that the balance to the engine wasn't changed much at all in my application, if any.
Also, what brand and weight of synthetic oil do you run in your transmission?
I ran Amsoil 75/90 in mine and couldn't get it to work without clashing. I even checked that the clutch was fully disengaging, so that wasn't the issue. A flush and change back to 75/90 GL4 solved the issue completely.
This is sad, because i believe in the great benefits of using synthetic oils.

My apologies for the O.P., it seems we got side tracked on what was a reasonably simple question.

 

[yellow rose]

Well, it seems like you hit a ''nerve'' with most of the responders to this thread, not just me.
And i feel that we struck a ''nerve'' with you judging by your harsh responses.
Portraying yourself as a know it all for clutch design and what materials and technology works, and for that matter, what doesn't work on ALL applications makes you a self professed expert on the subject.
Naturally, many would draw the inference that if you have the vast experience that you are portraying on here with your posts, running 9 second stick cars in the past and all, that you would be up to snuff with the higher end racers who run Pro Stock etc. who demand the latest in technology mixed with the experience of a ''been there done that and it didn't work, but i do know what does for every application'' person like you.
FWIW, i still stick by the fact that my engine does not vibrate at over 6,000 rpm with my new Centerforce clutch, so i am certain that the balance to the engine wasn't changed much at all in my application, if any.
Also, what brand and weight of synthetic oil do you run in your transmission?
I ran Amsoil 75/90 in mine and couldn't get it to work without clashing. I even checked that the clutch was fully disengaging, so that wasn't the issue. A flush and change back to 75/90 GL4 solved the issue completely.
This is sad, because i believe in the great benefits of using synthetic oils.

My apologies for the O.P., it seems we got side tracked on what was a reasonably simple question.

You are making it up as you go. I never portrayed myself as anything but a guy on the net giving my opinion. They go against what you "know" so it has rubbed you wrong. The difference between you and me is that I have experience in the things I post on. I'm not a serial poster just blowing up threads.

Run the junk you want. Call my stuff and opinions junk if you want. I don't have to prove my bona fides to you or anyone else.

The fact that you can't get an oil to work is not my problem. I'm not there to hold you hand and wipe your nose for you. Use what you want. The real issue is that some poor dude will come along and read this thread and NOT use a good oil because YOU had an issue. All I am saying is I have used synthetic gear oil in virtually every transmission I have ever had without issue, AS LONG AS IT HAS BRASS SYNCROS. And I started with Amsoil and then moved on to bigger and better products. In fact, as far as I can tell, there is only ONE manufacturer who still makes a GL-6 gear oil because of cost. If you want to know who that is, do the research as I'm not going to endorse anything and have someone like you come on here and bad mouth me because you CAN'T do it. This is the same reason I don't like to give out clutch set up or anything else. Some of you guys can break a bowling ball in a sand box with no tools.

Smell ya later dude.

 

[salinasjoel]

wrong thread

 

[tooslow]

wow, you two guy's need to go have a beer!!

I have an 833 rebuilt transmission but my car is an RB 440 with a BB 727
1) will I need to have my crank drilled for the pilot bearing?
2). I need idea's on collecting all the necessary pedals , bellhousing, and hardware to c0onvert to a manual ?

Thank you for your help

 

[yellow rose]

wow, you two guy's need to go have a beer!!

I have an 833 rebuilt transmission but my car is an RB 440 with a BB 727
1) will I need to have my crank drilled for the pilot bearing?
2). I need idea's on collecting all the necessary pedals , bellhousing, and hardware to c0onvert to a manual ?

Thank you for your help

If the crank is out, you can get the pilot hole finished. They are usually just undersized. Some like roller pilot bearings and you don't have to do any work to the crank because it fits the converter register.

I make my own pilot bushings because I'm not a fan of the bearing. Any freshman machine shop kid can make you a pilot bushing.

 

[Dartnut]

You are making it up as you go. I never portrayed myself as anything but a guy on the net giving my opinion. They go against what you "know" so it has rubbed you wrong. The difference between you and me is that I have experience in the things I post on. I'm not a serial poster just blowing up threads.

Run the junk you want. Call my stuff and opinions junk if you want. I don't have to prove my bona fides to you or anyone else.

The fact that you can't get an oil to work is not my problem. I'm not there to hold you hand and wipe your nose for you. Use what you want. The real issue is that some poor dude will come along and read this thread and NOT use a good oil because YOU had an issue. All I am saying is I have used synthetic gear oil in virtually every transmission I have ever had without issue, AS LONG AS IT HAS BRASS SYNCROS. And I started with Amsoil and then moved on to bigger and better products. In fact, as far as I can tell, there is only ONE manufacturer who still makes a GL-6 gear oil because of cost. If you want to know who that is, do the research as I'm not going to endorse anything and have someone like you come on here and bad mouth me because you CAN'T do it. This is the same reason I don't like to give out clutch set up or anything else. Some of you guys can break a bowling ball in a sand box with no tools.

Smell ya later dude.

So you use Torco RTF GL-4/5 synthetic oil in your transmission eh?
Their claims are pretty good, and your claims seem to back it up, so i have decided to try it.
Thanks for the tip. (finally)
What rubs me wrong about you is that you seem to know your stuff, but we all have to read between the lines and squeeze info out of you.
BTW, i do post on the things that i know or have experienced in my life working on, driving, and racing these Mopars for several years. I do not post anything about subjects i know little about, or don't care to.
Don't get your panties in a bunch, dude.
I'm here to learn and help when i can, not be a drama queen.
If there's a better way to do things, i'm all ears.
Now, if you would only let us in on your personal clutch set up specifically including brand, we might be going somewhere and be a lot more help to the O.P...........

 

[Dartnut]

If the crank is out, you can get the pilot hole finished. They are usually just undersized. Some like roller pilot bearings and you don't have to do any work to the crank because it fits the converter register.

I make my own pilot bushings because I'm not a fan of the bearing. Any freshman machine shop kid can make you a pilot bushing.

Great advice, and 100% spot on.

 

[Dartnut]

wow, you two guy's need to go have a beer!!

I would love to go for a Beer with him, as long as there's no arguments about which beer is better, American vs Canadian!
Take a wild guess on what my choice is.......
Hey yellow rose, do you live in Portland Oregon, or Maine?
If it's Oregon, it's possible we could meet for that Beer.

 

[yellow rose]

So you use Torco RTF GL-4/5 synthetic oil in your transmission eh?
Their claims are pretty good, and your claims seem to back it up, so i have decided to try it.
Thanks for the tip. (finally)
What rubs me wrong about you is that you seem to know your stuff, but we all have to read between the lines and squeeze info out of you.
BTW, i do post on the things that i know or have experienced in my life working on, driving, and racing these Mopars for several years. I do not post anything about subjects i know little about, or don't care to.
Don't get your panties in a bunch, dude.
I'm here to learn and help when i can, not be a drama queen.
If there's a better way to do things, i'm all ears.
Now, if you would only let us in on your personal clutch set up specifically including brand, we might be going somewhere and be a lot more help to the O.P...........

I do NOT run that particular oil. I use the GL-6 oil and I thought I was clear about that. But the Torco part is correct. Expect to PAY for it because quality ain't cheep. 8-9 dollar a quart synthetic oil uses a group 3 base oil which is only legally a synthetic oil, but not actually in fact (unless you are making the oil then you market the hell out of group 3 oils) a true synthetic base stock.

I could type more, but I would rather let folks do their own research.

 

[yellow rose]

I would love to go for a Beer with him, as long as there's no arguments about which beer is better, American vs Canadian!
Take a wild guess on what my choice is.......
Hey yellow rose, do you live in Portland Oregon, or Maine?
If it's Oregon, it's possible we could meet for that Beer.

I'm in Oregon. The very first time I was drunk was 1980 on Canadian beer!!!!!
I was drunk in a small town I no longer remember. It was an unforgettable party. It was talked about for years at my high school because that was the LAST year our two high schools did the exchange thing where we spent the weekend up there and stayed with families up there and they would come down here and stay with us. I think there are kids running around today just because of that trip.


Glad I'm old now.

 

[Dartnut]

I'm in Oregon. The very first time I was drunk was 1980 on Canadian beer!!!!!
I was drunk in a small town I no longer remember. It was an unforgettable party. It was talked about for years at my high school because that was the LAST year our two high schools did the exchange thing where we spent the weekend up there and stayed with families up there and they would come down here and stay with us. I think there are kids running around today just because of that trip.


Glad I'm old now.

I was born in '62, so i know what you are saying.
I used to race my 440 4 speed '69 Super Bee in Spokane in the mid '80s every second weekend for a few years. I drove it down, raced, partied with friends from there, then drove back the next day. I drank LOTS of American beer........
Good times, but i couldn't do it at this age anymore.
The reason i was digging so much for info from you was that i am building a big block Demon 4 speed and want to set it up right from the start.
The price of trans oil and clutches aren't a big concern to me as long as it will work and last.
I want to build it once.
Hopefully the O.P. and others will read between the lines and find this info valuable as well, that was my intention from the start, not arguing..........
If i can get the time off work to go to the Portland swap meet this year, i'll p.m. you and maybe we'll hook up and b.s.
Thanks,
Tom.

 

[BadBee]

Back in the Day the only clutch that took my beatings was a Webber 3600 lb, I used on the track/street, Hitched to an 18Spline Hemi 4Speed hooked to a '67/440 x 6 in a '69 Bee dynoed out at 585 H.P That clutch stayed together when others SH-t the bed!! I stayed
With that set up till I sold it, but I did break a FEW other things, Now I'm starting all
Over again so Im ALL EARS!!!

 

[yellow rose]

Back in the Day the only clutch that took my beatings was a Webber 3600 lb, I used on the track/street, Hitched to an 18Spline Hemi 4Speed hooked to a '67/440 x 6 in a '69 Bee dynoed out at 585 H.P That clutch stayed together when others SH-t the bed!! I stayed
With that set up till I sold it, but I did break a FEW other things, Now I'm starting all
Over again so Im ALL EARS!!!

And that is why stuff broke. There is no reason to EVER run that kind of base pressure. All it does is crack the firewall, bend the clutch linkage and flex the cover itself.

Today, if you want a rag disc, you can use 2200 pounds and not break parts. The best way is a sintered iron disc and 600-700 pounds of base. The pressure is what breaks parts. It's no different than a hammer. If you consider RPM as the speed you swing the hammer it becomes clear. At the same RPM, 3600 pounds hits way harder than 2200 pounds and that hits harder than 600 pounds.

Don't beat the car to death with a high pressure clutch or a metallic disc.

 

[weedburner]

The OP in this thread says he is a road racer. If his trans has synchros, might want to stay away from a heavy iron disc. Also stay away from any PP that uses straps to anchor the pressure ring, those straps eventually bend/break when you do a lot of downshift / engine braking.

 

[yellow rose]

The OP in this thread says he is a road racer. If his trans has synchros, might want to stay away from a heavy iron disc. Also stay away from any PP that uses straps to anchor the pressure ring, those straps eventually bend/break when you do a lot of downshift / engine braking.

Disc weight is always an issue and must be accounted for. There are ways to compensate for it, regardless if you use syncros or not. Most guys that road race don't shift with the throttle on the floor, so disc weight is less of an issue as compared to someone shifting with the throttle foot shoved through the floor.

 

[Marcohotrod]

question-if the pressure is light-the slippage wears the disc more-requiring more frequent replacement of disc?

 

[weedburner]

question-if the pressure is light-the slippage wears the disc more-requiring more frequent replacement of disc?

Don't slip it at all, your clutch disc will never wear out. Slip it just the right amount, you will be replacing your disc more often, but your car will be quicker.

 

[yellow rose]

question-if the pressure is light-the slippage wears the disc more-requiring more frequent replacement of disc?

Pretty much what weed burner said, but it's not quite that simple. There is a big difference between a clutch that slips and a clutch that has a controlled amount of lock up. I can tell you had it been explained to me correctly in 1983 it would not have taken me another DECADE to figure it out. And I used to have a stack of broken parts to prove that I was slow on the uptake.


Do not mistake clutch slip with a controlled application of the pressure of the pressure plate with base and counter weight.

 

[weedburner]

Counterweight isn't your friend if you are WOT shifting using the clutch. Total clamp pressure is at it's maximum until the engine gets pulled down far enough to allow some slip.

 

[hemitheus]

if you are concerned you can pull the gears and shafts and send them to libertys to have them cryo'd

 

[tooslow]

First, the only good beer is Australian FOSTERS

WHERE can I get or how can I collect the necessary hardware to convert my Auto to Manual, Pedals bellhousing, ect....??

Thanks for the knowledge and entertainment!

 

[j par]

First, the only good beer is Australian FOSTERS

WHERE can I get or how can I collect the necessary hardware to convert my Auto to Manual, Pedals bellhousing, ect....??

Thanks for the knowledge and entertainment!

Brewer's performance 4k+ if you have a big wallet or at least you can see on there website what you need off of Craigslist. It's a pain in the @$$ and relatively expensive and time consuming, but you'll never regret it....